"It's Dead, Jim." Is it? 48 hours in, nothing (Wyeast 1028)

[mongoose33]

The pic below says it all. Began Friday evening making a starter to use in Biermuncher's Black Pearl Porter. That all went fine--the smack pack swelled a bit, but nothing that would suggest an issue. The yeast was purchased at Northern Brewer and kept refrigerated all the way until I used it. Saturday evening I put it in the fridge to crash so I could decant it Sunday morning to pitch Sunday afternoon.

Brew day went well, chilled the wort down to 74 degrees. By then the starter had warmed up nicely, and I pitched it. I put it in my ferm chamber fridge at 60 degrees (as per recipe) on Sunday afternoon and it's held between 60 and 62.

Except....no activity. No airlock activity at all, no krausen, no nothing. There is a thin layer of bubbles on part of the surface of the wort, but that's been there since Sunday evening.

Today is Tuesday. Nothing. At this point--given that I began with a starter almost 4 days ago--it would appear it's dead. What else can I put in there that would take its place? I have S-04, S-05, and S-06 (very doubtful), WLP001 (doubtful) and Wyeast2112 (very doubtful).

Or do I need to make a flying trip to my HLBS and hope he's got the White Labs equivalent in WLP-013?

I know the acronym: RDWHAHB. However, I should have seen something by now.

Ideas?

 

[dmtaylor]

You have reason to be concerned. Personally I add more yeast if no activity in 36 hours, and you're already at 48 hours. S-04 is your best bet -- pitch it right in there without delay. Either the S-04 will take over, or the original 1028 and S-04 will do the job together for you. You have nothing to lose and everything to gain by pitching more yeast right now.

 

[Stillraining]

If it were mine, I would warm it up first for a day to try to see if I could have jump started some life into it. Then let it settle back to your desired temp if it did. It looks clean and healthy just really slow. Then if that didn't work then I would re-pitch. I have had batches take 3 to 3 1/2 days to really kick off before.

 

[laredo7mm]

If the starter looked like it had good activity before the cold crash, I would increase the ferm temp like Stillraining said. 60°F is at the low end of WY1028's range.

Plus, if you pitched on Sunday afternoon, it still hasn't been 48 hours.

I would bump the temp to 64° and give it some more time.

 

[mongoose33]

If it were mine, I would warm it up first for a day to try to see if I could have jump started some life into it. Then let it settle back to your desired temp if it did. It looks clean and healthy just really slow. Then if that didn't work then I would re-pitch. I have had batches take 3 to 3 1/2 days to really kick off before.

What's funny about this--in a very strange nonhumorous way--is that I had a smack pack of the exact same yeast, same manufacturing date (April 16) which did nothing in the starter--no sign of anything.

I asked about that on here, and a couple people said it was just slow, don't worry about it. I didn't like what it did, so I chickened out and made something else using another yeast I had. Meanwhile I took that starter off the stir plate and let it sit to see if anything would happen. After a few days I saw a few bubbles coming to the top, so something was going on. After about 8 days, I checked gravity on it, and it had driven it down to under 1.010. So it worked, sort of. But that was a smack pack whose $6 i simply lost.

So, when i was at Northern Brewer a couple weeks ago, I picked up another of exactly the same thing--same manufacturing date. The first smack pack was bought at my LHBS. Made sure I had it cooled/refrigerated the whole way home, kept it in the fridge until I made the starter Friday night. I even left out the Fermcap to see if I could get any sign of life in the starter--which I could not.

I really wanted this to go according to plan--want to see if I can make Biermuncher's recipe well--and if I put in a different yeast, well, it'll be different. I think, though that this may be the last time I use Wyeast 1028 unless I can find a reason why it's behaving this way.

My biggest concern at this point is that I'm sure SOMETHING must have gotten into the fermenter when I racked into it. I took pains to reduce that as much as possible, of course, but I did aerate the wort w/ oxygen using a diffusion stone, so whatever is floating around in the air likely got in there. My son--microbiologist--says generally that's not a problem as the yeast has SO MANY more cells that they'll outcompete whatever might fall in there. But nothing is going on, which makes me concerned that something else might be getting a foothold.

 

[mongoose33]

If the starter looked like it had good activity before the cold crash, I would increase the ferm temp like Stillraining said. 60°F is at the low end of WY1028's range.

Plus, if you pitched on Sunday afternoon, it still hasn't been 48 hours.

I would bump the temp to 64° and give it some more time.

Well, you're right--it hasn't even been 48 hours--but if you count when I made the starter, it's about 84 hours.

I used 60 degrees because that's what Biermuncher's recipe says to use. I know that's a bit cool. I think what I may do is go home at lunch and reset the Inkbird and let it rise to about 65 or so and see what happens.

 

[dmtaylor]

Plus, if you pitched on Sunday afternoon, it still hasn't been 48 hours.

True, good catch! I'd monitor and then pitch more yeast this evening if conditions do not improve. It will probably take off today on its own.

 

[Stillraining]

Take a gravity of this one too? and a sip...You have to open it to re-pich anyway so why not right?

If it taste clean it probably is and it might be fermenting right before your eyes with little activity.

I hate re-pitching if you cant tell.. Only ever done it once and I dont think I needed to.

 

[FVillatoro]

Try warming it up a bit.
I've used this yeast extensively and I usually pitch it at 64 and let it ferment at 64-66 degrees.

This yeast is voracious in the mid 60s and finishes most of my beers in the 1.055s in about 3 days flat.

If the starter had a krausen and there was visible yeast settled on the bottom, then it's more than likely a temp issue.

I would pitch at 64 if I were you, and once it started to take off gradually drop to 60.

 

[Homercidal]

Dammit, Jim, I'm a Homebrewer, not a Microbiologist!

But why are you afraid of pitching something else? I'd take a sample with a sanitized thief of some sort and check gravity, just to be sure it's not sneaking some activity past you. By now, if you haven't gotten some action (Considering you did a starter and all...) then what's wrong with pitching a packet of backup yeast? Pride? Cost?

 

[mongoose33]

Try warming it up a bit.
I've used this yeast extensively and I usually pitch it at 64 and let it ferment at 64-66 degrees.

This yeast is voracious in the mid 60s and finishes most of my beers in the 1.055s in about 3 days flat.

If the starter had a krausen and there was visible yeast settled on the bottom, then it's more than likely a temp issue.

I would pitch at 64 if I were you, and once it started to take off gradually drop to 60.

I ran home on a break (yeah, my commute is 4 minutes) and raised the temp on the Inkbird to 65. I'll report back later on what resulted.

 

[mongoose33]

Dammit, Jim, I'm a Homebrewer, not a Microbiologist!

But why are you afraid of pitching something else? I'd take a sample with a sanitized thief of some sort and check gravity, just to be sure it's not sneaking some activity past you. By now, if you haven't gotten some action (Considering you did a starter and all...) then what's wrong with pitching a packet of backup yeast? Pride? Cost?

It's not so much that I'm afraid--it's that whatever results will be a Frankenbeer. To recreate it will require the same mistakes.

I brew a Rye beer which is my all-time favorite. If you like Rye, you'd like this. Smooth-drinking, nice Rye twang but not too much, I just swapped kegs between batches and the new one tastes just like the old one. You'd think I was starting to figure this out except for the current escapades.

That Rye beer was a mistake. I inadvertently left out some sort of water amendment and it somehow turned out....great! As a friend of mine said, "I hope you remember what you screwed up, so you can keep doing that!"

I just wanted this to end up close to what Biermuncher's recipe intended. There's already a screwup in it--I had to substitute Crystal 60L for 30L, which I didn't have. But if I swap too many things....

As I noted above, I ran home at break and bumped up the temp to 65. If that doesn't produce anything by tomorrow morning I'll pitch something else.

 

[Homercidal]

I'm betting it will be fine. As long as you didn't totally screw up sanitation, it will probably kick start once it warms up. Some yeast just really struggle to get going at the lower end of their temp range.

 

[mongoose33]

I'm betting it will be fine. As long as you didn't totally screw up sanitation, it will probably kick start once it warms up. Some yeast just really struggle to get going at the lower end of their temp range.

I'm pretty good with sanitation. Read on HBT that it's not uncommon for new brewers to get an infection around their 10th batch--it's about the time stuff accumulates and eventually harbors the bad guys. So I've been trying to redouble my efforts at cleanliness and sanitation. My Porter is, IIRC, my 14th or 15th batch, and no issues yet.

But that's not all.

I have good news and bad news. Here's the good news: I have Krausen! Tonite, I have liftoff!



Now for the bad news. When I got home the temp had gone up a bit higher than I wanted--and guess what? The fridge I'm using as a fermentation chamber stopped working. The interior light comes on, but no compressor. I disconnected it from the Inkbird and plugged in the fridge directly, same deal: interior light comes on, no refrigeration.

So, I quickly took the fermenter down to the basement, set it in a pan of water, put a t-shirt over it to create a swamp cooler, and installed the Inkbird temp probe to monitor the temps.

So now I have to figure out what's the deal with the fridge. Lost cause? Something that can be fixed? Dunno.

Thank you all for the input and advice. Raising the temp seems to be the ticket here. Despite the angst, it was a learning experience and a good one. Now, I get to learn about refrigerators.

 

[Homercidal]

Generally the compressor will kick on even when the fridge isn't working. They don't often just freeze up.

I'd check for a fuse in the circuit that feeds the compressor, or maybe try adjusting the thermostat back and forth to see if it's not quite engaging.

If you were "really" into DIY you might try bypassing the thermostat altogether...

Most cases of a fridge not working either the freon leaked out, or the compressor is running, but not pumping. Maybe bad seals or something. If it were to have seized, I think you would have heard a bit of obnoxious noise coming from it before it happened. My theories, anyway.

Lastly, did you have the controller set up to provide a pause between cycling the fridge? Sometimes they can be fired up too many time in a short order and cause some damage.

 

[mongoose33]

Generally the compressor will kick on even when the fridge isn't working. They don't often just freeze up.

No kicking on of the compressor. The interior light comes on so I know power is getting to it.

I'd check for a fuse in the circuit that feeds the compressor, or maybe try adjusting the thermostat back and forth to see if it's not quite engaging.

If you were "really" into DIY you might try bypassing the thermostat altogether...

I tried moving the thermostat back and forth, nothing of note happened. Can't remember if I heard it clicking on and off--i'll have to check that.

I didn't have a chance yesterday to pull it out and look, I'll see what I can see. Bypassing the thermostat might be an option.

Most cases of a fridge not working either the freon leaked out, or the compressor is running, but not pumping. Maybe bad seals or something. If it were to have seized, I think you would have heard a bit of obnoxious noise coming from it before it happened. My theories, anyway.

No noise at all, which actually does point to the fuse theory.

Lastly, did you have the controller set up to provide a pause between cycling the fridge? Sometimes they can be fired up too many time in a short order and cause some damage.

I have the Inkbird set up on a 3-minute compressor delay. Interesting thing about the Inkbird: first time I used it on my keezer, I plugged everything in and...nothing happened. I went to do something else while I thought about it and after 3 minutes, it turned on. So it engages the compressor delay at startup, assuming that the compressor was running just before plugging it into the Inkbird. Pretty smart engineering if you ask me.

 

[Homercidal]

Yes, I noticed my upgraded STC controller has that feature. I think it blinks when you turn it on to indicate it's in cycle limit mode. I didn't know this the first time I used it and turned it off and on a few times and checked programming before reading about the feature and realizing what was going on. Makes sense.

I may be thinking of the original Chinese version. I still have one of those I haven't flashed yet. I need to swap it out and put one of my upgraded models in the ferm chamber.

 

[mongoose33]

If you were "really" into DIY you might try bypassing the thermostat altogether...

Well....guess what? Out of town for a couple days, got back this afternoon. I decided the only part I could reasonably influence is what you noted above, the thermostat.

So I plug the fridge in, interior light comes on. It's got power. I try moving the T-stat dial back and forth, nothing of note happens.

I drop the thermostat module from the roof of the fridge chamber (freezer above), and when I pull it down to hang by the wires....Bang! On goes the rest of the refrigerator.

I'm letting it run for a bit to see if it cools (I'm betting it will). If it does, I plan to bypass the thermostat and let the Inkbird control it. My only concern is there are three wires to the thermostat; not sure which I should jump to bypass it. Any idea?

 

[Stillraining]

Don't you just wish everything could be solved just by accident.. Good luck with the bypass...Id be interested in knowing how to do it myself.

 

[mongoose33]

Don't you just wish everything could be solved just by accident.. Good luck with the bypass...Id be interested in knowing how to do it myself.

OK. Fridge is cooling. It's a switch problem.

Below are two pics of the thermostat module. First is a large pic, the second focuses in.

There's a single gray wire that comes in to the top clear connector; the green label affixed to it says "continuity test OK."

The green wire is ground.

The lower clear connector has two black wires coming out of it. One goes back into the bunch of wires; the other goes to the light switch. It appears to be the power wire.

A red wire comes out of the light switch and over to the light, where there are two orange wires, one of which goes to some sort of control module, one of which leaves in the bunch of wires.

As I look at this, the best way to jump the thermostat is simply to connect the gray wire in the top connector to the black wires in the bottom connector.

Does that make sense? Is there anything else I should be considering? It seems like it should be as easy as that.

 

[Sourz4life]

.

 

[Homercidal]

I have plans to wire an STC directly to my kegerator. I haven't decided exactly where I want it mounted, but when I do it I plan to bypass the thermostat completely and run wires from the box holding the thermostat and light to the location of the STC. Where I really want to put it is on the side where the thermostat is. And it's opposite the hinge side. I might just run wires underneath the freezer compartment and over to the hinge side and mount it there.

The basic premise is to simply remove the two wires connected to the thermostat and wire them directly to the output of the STC Cooling posts. One wire going to the compressor should be hard wired to it. The other wire comes from the thermostat and completes the circuit when the thermostat switch turns on. Just replace the thermostat with the STC.

If you are using this as a temp control chamber you can also add a heating device like a light or reptile heater inside wired directly to the STC. Wiring the STC inside makes for a cleaner install than having to run wires to the heating device through the wall.

 

[Homercidal]

Oh, forgot to mention, if you are simply byapssing the thermostat, one of the wires connected to the compressor is already hard wired. You only need to run one of the wires going to the thermostat to the cooling post on the STC (inkbird) and the other wire going to the thermostat to the other cooling post on the STC.

 

[mongoose33]

Oh, forgot to mention, if you are simply byapssing the thermostat, one of the wires connected to the compressor is already hard wired. You only need to run one of the wires going to the thermostat to the cooling post on the STC (inkbird) and the other wire going to the thermostat to the other cooling post on the STC.

So this sounds like I could just connect those two wires, bypassing the thermostat and creating a refrigerator which will run continuously. Then, the Inkbird controller I have should control off and on just by controlling power to the refrigerator.

 

[Homercidal]

So this sounds like I could just connect those two wires, bypassing the thermostat and creating a refrigerator which will run continuously. Then, the Inkbird controller I have should control off and on just by controlling power to the refrigerator.

True. Although if the thermostat in the fridge is actually working now, I'd just turn it all the way down to as cold as it can get and let the Inkbird do it's thing.

That way you have some kind of backup in case the Inkbird fails, and/or eve want to re-use the fridge for fridging or sell it later. As long as the temp is well below what your Inkbird is set to, the thermostat contacts will be engaged the entire time anyway.

 

[Stillraining]

True. Although if the thermostat in the fridge is actually working now, I'd just turn it all the way down to as cold as it can get and let the Inkbird do it's thing.

That way you have some kind of backup in case the Inkbird fails, and/or eve want to re-use the fridge for fridging or sell it later. As long as the temp is well below what your Inkbird is set to, the thermostat contacts will be engaged the entire time anyway.

Good advice: except in my case with the wine coolers I have chosen, they only turn down to 45 degrees so I will eventually have to bypass them for cold crashing.
Thanks for posting this mongoose...I know it has been in many previous threads but sometimes hard to decipher unless you have one on one tutorial. And please "carry on" and update.

 

[jlvgolf]

So this sounds like I could just connect those two wires, bypassing the thermostat and creating a refrigerator which will run continuously. Then, the Inkbird controller I have should control off and on just by controlling power to the refrigerator.

Exactly, remove the wires from the thermostat and splice them together. The fridge will run whenever it's plugged in. It's what I did for my mini-fridge fermentation chamber and it works perfectly.