Is dry hopping as dangerous as some make it out to be?

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I'm confused. Are you suggesting that because preferences and standards change over long periods of time that we should ignore current ones? Sounds like anarchy to me but it would be so much easier.

I'm for changes that make improvements. Change just for the sake of change....not at all.

Grocery stores move products around. Does it improve shopping? Not if I can't find what I want. Same with beer. I control fermentation temperature now because it makes my beer taste better. It isn't difficult and worth the extra. Low DO is much more difficult for my setup. I try some to limit the o2 exposure but I don't go to extremes. It just isn't worth the cost for me.
 
I'm for changes that make improvements. Change just for the sake of change....not at all.

Grocery stores move products around. Does it improve shopping? Not if I can't find what I want. Same with beer. I control fermentation temperature now because it makes my beer taste better. It isn't difficult and worth the extra. Low DO is much more difficult for my setup. I try some to limit the o2 exposure but I don't go to extremes. It just isn't worth the cost for me.
My commentary was solely about post ferment handling in case that wasn't clear. While it can be viewed as anecdotal, my brewing in the last two years is firmly better than the previous 10 and I have a pile of comp medals that marginally confirms that thinking.

I'm not one to jump to conclusions quickly or throw money where it doesn't improve anything. My brew kettle is a 6 year old Bayou classic and I ferment in plastic.
 
My first really heavily dry-hopped beer turned out great, though after a couple of weeks in the bottle it developed a pinkish-grey tinge. The guys at my LHBS noticed it, though it still tastes fantastic.

On a side note, I've been devising an accessory that would eliminate the rapid flavor/aroma degradation that occurs with the introduction of oxygen when you open the fermenter and drop in a handful of pellets. It would comprise a vessel either internal to the fermenter or projecting vertically from the lid that would be loaded with the hop charge at pitching time. Oxygen would be scavenged by active fermentation and the pellets purged with naturally occurring CO2. Then when the kraeusen drops a butterfly valve or similar would release the pellets into the beer. Multiple units could be installed on a lid allowing subsequent hopping charges to be dispensed. It could be activated by something as simple as a string that could be snipped, a magnet that could be pulled off to release a hop sock, or a rod that could be withdrawn through a sealing grommet to sequentially release multiple charges, or a more sophisticated servo-driven release mechanism activated via bluetooth, etc. Kickstarter, anyone?
 
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My first really heavily dry-hopped beer turned out great, though after a couple of weeks in the bottle it developed a pinkish-grey tinge. The guys at my LHBS noticed it, though it still tastes fantastic.

On a side note, I've been devising an accessory that would eliminate the rapid flavor/aroma degradation that occurs with the introduction of oxygen when you open the fermenter and drop in a handful of pellets. It would comprise a vessel either internal to the fermenter or projecting vertically from the lid that would be loaded with the hop charge at pitching time. Oxygen would be scavenged by active fermentation and the pellets purged with naturally occurring CO2. Then when the kraeusen drops a butterfly valve or similar would release the pellets into the beer. Multiple units could be installed on a lid allowing subsequent hopping charges to be dispensed. It could be activated by something as simple as a string that could be snipped, a magnet that could be pulled off to release a hop sock, or a rod that could be withdrawn through a sealing grommet to sequentially release multiple charges, or a more sophisticated servo-driven release mechanism activated via bluetooth, etc. Kickstarter, anyone?

I've thought about doing something like this, there's a guy here who used magnets with a fermentasaurus. I don't have enough head space to keep them out of the krausen though. I like the idea of having them above the lid in a separate compartment, might have to look into that.
 
Alright, question in regards to the Bruloon/Bread bag method pictured below. How does this work if you want to cold crash and use gelatin? To add the gelatin, you have to open the fermenter. If you open the fermenter, you lose the CO2 in the bag. Do you not use gelatin when you do this or is there a way around that?

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There's your basic answer--it was right in your own message!

1. Oxidation will attack beer over time--it's especially pernicious with regard to hoppy beers, which is why often the advice is to drink them fresh. If your beer isn't lasting long, you may not have had it around long enough to notice.

2. Ever been at a keg party where they used a picnic tap and a hand pump to dispense the beer and then had some of that beer the next day? Oxidized! It may be the best example I can think of to find oxidized beer. Too much O2 post-fermentation = ick.

3. I think there's value in doing this: every time you brew, try to do something better. Find ways to limit O2 exposure recognizing that without a specific system you probably can't eliminate all of it. But you can eliminate most of it. Just keep adopting process elements that do that.

How?

A. Purge keg w/ CO2. You can actually hook up a line from the airlock to a QD attached to your keg, release the PRV, and as the beer ferments the CO2 it offgases will be fed into the keg. If the gravity is high enough you'll produce enough CO2 to purge the keg. Every 2 points of gravity is equivalent to about 1 volume of CO2. So if your beer starts at 1.060 and finishes at 1.010, you'll have produced about 25 volumes of CO2. Purge a keg 25 times with CO2 and what do you have left? CO2.

You can also purge it with bottled CO2.

B. Just because I'm fairly anal when it comes to this stuff, I'll typically do a Star-San purge of my kegs after cleaning them. That means a full keg of Star-San has it pushed out by bottled CO2 into another keg using a jumper from OUT post to OUT post. That leaves almost all CO2 from the bottle in the keg. Then I'll harvest fermentation CO2 from the fermenter to push into the keg and I have an almost perfectly CO2 keg.

C: Rack into that now-purged keg through a QD connected to the OUT post. You can do this with gravity--I've done it that way many times. I will then feed the displaced CO2 from the keg--coming out through a QD on the IN post--back into the fermenter so instead of drawing air into the fermenter as the beer drains/racks into the keg, I'm drawing CO2 from the keg back in.

D. There are many ways to avoid suck-back of air/O2 into the fermenter at cold crash. One is to do the balloon trick. I wasn't sure I could get a good enough seal so I used a breadbag filled with CO2 and twist-tied around the airlock. If you ferment under pressure, there's already CO2 in there to account for the reduction in headspace at cold crashing. BobbyM from brewhardware.com sells something that does this, it's fairly cool IMO: https://www.brewhardware.com/product_p/ccguardianv2.htm

I have some pics below showing how I've done this. I now have a Spike CF10 conical I'm crashing in and fermenting the last bit under pressure, so there's no suck-back. I show how I'm feeding CO2 off the fermenter into the keg.

There are lots of ways to do this. Just keep moving toward doing it better. I still am.

The Breadbag method:

View attachment 585548

O2-free racking feeding CO2 back into fermenter. I just used an airlock w/ the top cut off, it fit the tubing I had. I now use a piece of rigid plastic tubing from a bottle filler through a drilled stopper.

View attachment 585549

I now have a Spike conical. This pic shows me feeding CO2 off the fermenter into the keg into which I'll rack the beer. If you look closely, you'll see I've hooked up a jumper in series so that the O2 is purged from that too, so when it comes time to rack into the keg, the jumper I'll use is free of O2 as well.

View attachment 585552

The device I use to connect two liquid OUT Quickdisconnects. BobbyM sells it at Brewhardware.

View attachment 585551

The jumper:

View attachment 585550

I just bought one of these.

https://www.brewhardware.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=CCguardianV2

Sure it's $12 for $2 worth of material, but someone did all the work for me :) I've done a TON of brews without one and always use a blow-off and I've never (at least to my observation) have seen the liquid getting sucked back in (although it's gotten close) and the beers have been great, but always looking to improve on my methods especially in guarding against O2 post fermentation.
For my NEIPAs I'm way more paranoid. I don't cold crash and I rack to a CO2 purged keg at the tail end of fermentation. I add my dry hops to the keg in a stainless dryhopper (or you can use a mesh bag) and purge any O2 after I seal it. I'll let it finish up for 4-5 days in the keg at 72 degrees and then just throw it in my keezer and carb it up. First pint or so is murky but after that you're home free. I leave the hops in the keg until it kicks...no issues. Although for NEIPAs I've been using cryo hops and/or hop hash which is better for dry hopping.
 
Alright, question in regards to the Bruloon/Bread bag method pictured below. How does this work if you want to cold crash and use gelatin? To add the gelatin, you have to open the fermenter. If you open the fermenter, you lose the CO2 in the bag. Do you not use gelatin when you do this or is there a way around that?

View attachment 589145
Use a garbage tie to close off the bag before opening the fermenter, remove it afterwards.
 
I hope not. That's how I've been doing it for a bazillion batches.


Can I wait until fermentation is completely over, say at 18 days(okay, I forgot I was supposed to dry hop) then add the hops, wait 2-6 days, then keg? Or does there have to be at least a little fermentation still going on to successfully dry hop?
 
Can I wait until fermentation is completely over, say at 18 days(okay, I forgot I was supposed to dry hop) then add the hops, wait 2-6 days, then keg? Or does there have to be at least a little fermentation still going on to successfully dry hop?

I've waited 4 weeks before dry hopping and the fermentation was well over long before that and the dry hopping went well, perhaps better than dry hopping too soon as if there is still fermentation the escaping CO2 may carry off some of the hop aroma. I've also dry hopped for 2 weeks as something came up when I intended to bottle.
 
Can I wait until fermentation is completely over, say at 18 days(okay, I forgot I was supposed to dry hop) then add the hops, wait 2-6 days, then keg? Or does there have to be at least a little fermentation still going on to successfully dry hop?

If you’re making a NEIPA then dry hopping during active fermentation is important. Any other style and you’re just fine, in fact doing it after was probably the intention.
 
Can I wait until fermentation is completely over, say at 18 days(okay, I forgot I was supposed to dry hop) then add the hops, wait 2-6 days, then keg? Or does there have to be at least a little fermentation still going on to successfully dry hop?

Sure you can. It's ideal to add them at the tail end of fermentation so the fermentor fills headspace with CO2 again.
 
If you’re making a NEIPA then dry hopping during active fermentation is important. Any other style and you’re just fine, in fact doing it after was probably the intention.
While I do like to hop while co2 is still being produced, it's usually at the very end and I still end up with all the characteristics of NEIPA.
 
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