Irish Red

[azazel1024]

My final recipe that I am contemplating for the next couple of months. An Irish Red (my wife will love me, if I don't screw it up).

4.5G BiaB
7lb UK pale
1lb White wheat (head retention mostly)
.25lb roasted barley
.75lb Victory malt
Mash at 148F for 75 minutes
.75oz Willamette for 60 minutes
.25oz Willamette for 15 minutes
Windsor yeast
1.057OG, 1.016FG, 5.4% ABV, 17IBU, 14SRM

Thoughts? Resonably close to style?

I was considering maybe swapping out some of that victory for some brown malt, maybe half for half and go 6oz of each.

 

[giraffe]

Reasonably close to style, though with that gravity, you may want to up the IBUs to 20-25. Unless you want it a tad on the sweet side.

I love brown malt, but I dont really see its nuttiness working in a Irish red, Id keep it simple.

 

[azazel1024]

Reasonably close to style, though with that gravity, you may want to up the IBUs to 20-25. Unless you want it a tad on the sweet side.

I love brown malt, but I dont really see its nuttiness working in a Irish red, Id keep it simple.

Okay, thanks! I've got some cascade left over (bought a pound several months ago). I might toss in a tenth or two of an ounce in to the boil just to up the IBUs a little. I want to keep the flavor and deffinitely the aromas to a minimum on any hops.

I'll skip the brown malt, thanks.

 

[m00ps]

That looks pretty solid for an Irish Red. One thing to keep in mind, the Windsor yeast has low attenuation, leaving you with a sweeter body. When i was still using dry yeasts, I had a hard time getting it below 1.020. But it's probably pretty good for an Irish ale, plus you've got the low mash temp to even things out.

I'd keep the darker malts as it is. 1/4 lb of roasted barley will get you right in that amber sweet spot

 

[solbes]

I'd skip the Victory too, that defines nutty flavor IMO. 12 oz of Victory would give you nutty flavor for sure.

Roasted barley is needed both from the color and to provide a bit of roast to the back end of the taste. I wouldn't go any higher than 4 oz, but that should work.

17-20 IBU is perfect me thinks. Not sure you need extra hops.

 

[azazel1024]

Maybe 4-6oz of 80 or 120L in exchange for the 12oz of victory? Go for a hint of caramel/raisin in exchange for nutty? Or even special B...or would that be too plum like even at 4oz?

 

[m00ps]

Maybe 4-6oz of 80 or 120L in exchange for the 12oz of victory? Go for a hint of caramel/raisin in exchange for nutty? Or even special B...or would that be too plum like even at 4oz?

I doubt 4oz special B would give you a raisin ale. You could replace the victory with something like munich for a more malty backone...too much crystals may make it cloyingly sweet

 

[solbes]

Yeah I think those changes would be pretty good. Maybe 6 oz of C60 and 2-4 oz of Special B. Maybe back the RB down to 2 or 3 oz as it may come out too dark with the additional cystal malts.

My first Irish Red had 12 oz of C40, 2 oz of Spec B, and 2 oz of Roasted Barley (based on or was northern brewer's recipe). Came out nice.

 

[dlester]

Maybe 4-6oz of 80 or 120L in exchange for the 12oz of victory? Go for a hint of caramel/raisin in exchange for nutty? Or even special B...or would that be too plum like even at 4oz?

I certainly can appreciate creativity, but why would you want raisin or plum flavors in your red ale? Yuck.


.

 

[azazel1024]

I certainly can appreciate creativity, but why would you want raisin or plum flavors in your red ale? Yuck.


.

A hint is what I'd want. Plum, no, raisin maybe just a touch (which is why I was thinking Special B would be out). I am thinking 6oz of either special B or 120L would be too much. Maybe go 80L for more caramel and go 4oz. Not looking for a particularly malty red ale. I am thinking a little dry with just a small amount of malt, hint of caramel and bread. That is why I was going with Victory, as I personally feel like it goes a bit more bread like than nutty (I feel like brown malt does nutty better with some roasty undertones).

Maybe a small amount of biscuit and a small amount of 80L to get that hint of bready/caramel flavor? 6/4oz respectively? Or maybe 4/3oz?

Alternately, I could see just a little more roast/chocolately and go with a small amount of pale chocolate instead of any crystal or other specialty malts (other than roasted barley). Not sure the amount (I'd do an SRM calculator) to get the right SRM and color, but I am thinking something like 2-3oz of pale chocolate and 4oz of roasted barely to focus more on just a bit of roasty and a hint of chocolate to it to keep the sweetness down. I don't think I want to go to the step swapping pale malt for candi sugar or regular sugar to keep the sweetness down (probably too dry for what I am thinking).

Oh, also why I was thinking Windsor. I've only used it once before (technically twice, but my Oatmeal ESB isn't ready to drink yet), but based on the notes as well as that very limited experience, it seems a little less fruity than Nottingham and maybe just the smallest amount dryer. A little malt/sweet is fine, I just want it on the dryer side of the divide and I figure keeping crystal malts to a minimum as well as low mash temperature will (hopefully) do that.

 

[Staestc]

Subscribed.

 

[m00ps]

For the caramel/bready flavor I'd go with some 80L and biscuit. Plus you've already got victory. I just ran out of melanoidin which is like a german victory and it was great for breadyness. Another option is Special Roast, I love the smell of that stuff.

I've used Windsor 3 times I think and I could never get it to attenuate anywhere near Nottingham. But yeah I'd limit the specialty malts to <15% definitely if you want to get it dry. You could throw in some dark Munich for a good malty bread character without leaving nearly as much sweetness since its a base malt.

 

[dlester]

I see where you're going with this, but the addition of those other flavors will move your beer to another style. I didn't mean to say that those flavors are bad, just not good for this style. Being that some commercial versions of this style are nutty, Jamil said that you can get a nutty flavor by adding 1/8th LB of light chocolate per 6 +/- gallon. Just a thought. However, with that said. It's your beer, not mine. Go for it and have some fun. You can't learn a style without trying fun and crazy things. I've been brewing for many years and I am still learning, especially from my mistakes. I make so many mistakes, I should be an expert by now, but no. No I'm not.

Love to brew,

.

 

[bd2xu]

I've used northern Brewers Irish red recipe (all grain) several times and it's fantastic. Craft beer drinkers and even BMC drinkers love it. There's a reason it's their best selling kit.

http://www.northernbrewer.com/documentation/allgrain/AG-IrishRed.pdf

I've made it with S05, S04, and 1056. S04 was the best, I'd like to try it with Irish ale yeast or something from uk that really focuses on the malt.



Primary: Maibock, Helles (first partigyle batch)
Secondary: Mojave Red, Irish Stout
On tap: Orange Belgian IPA, Turbo IIPA
Bottled: Dwarven Gold Ale, La Fin Du Mond clone, Hefeweizen

 

[JKaranka]

I'd be careful with the Windsor. I casked a mild with Windsor and I'm about to bottle the rest. It ended up fairly thin and lacking body. I'll check gravity soon, but I suspect that my regular rousing attenuated it a bit further than what all the forum posts suggest. I'd go with S04 but it might have more esters than what you want.

 

[azazel1024]

Thanks, guys!

 

[azazel1024]

Okay, here is what I ended up buying.

Going with a 4.5G recipe, 5 gallon boil BiaB
6.5lbs UK Pale 2-row
1lb flaked wheat
1lb flaked barley
.4lb Crystal 80l
.2lb Roasted Barley
150F mash
Windsor yeast
.5oz Willamette for 60min
.5oz Willamette for 15min

1.055OG, 1.014FG, 5.5% ABV, 18IBU, 14SRM

Fingers crossed. I'll probably brew it right before Thanksgiving to be bottled and ready for Christmas.

 

[azazel1024]

Hmmm, seemed a little brown more than red/garnet. I am wondering if it'll settle down once it has fermented and everything has perciptated out of solution to the torb. I haven't really made a red before, though I seem to recall that my Oktoberfest was the same way and it turned pretty red in the end (lots of Munich and Dark Munich malts).

I also threw in about a tenth of an ounce of cascade for 60 minutes, just to pump the IBU a couple of points (worried it was going to be a little too low on IBUs with the 80L in there and I still have a large part of a pound of cascade sitting around).

 

[azazel1024]

I just checked it last night pulling the towel off the carboy. A nice deep garnet color. Seems to be exactly what I was going for. So I guess things just need to settle out for awhile. Going to wait a couple more weeks to bottle this one, but tonight I bottle my Belgian porter!

 

[dlester]

Azazel1024, what was the results of the beer tasting. If brewed again what would you change, if any?

dlester

 

[azazel1024]

I would deffinitely change up the yeast and also temp control. I might also reduce my mash temp slightly.

The issue I ran in to is that apparently Windsor yeast likes going dormant if you drop it in to the low 60's. My slab is ~62F at night and we had a fairly cool mid November. When I checked attenuation at bottling it was in the 70% range, which seemed a little low, but not overly worrying.

The beer was fine when it carbed up at first, but a little brown/murky, I think from a bit too much yeast in suspension (a cold crash would have been good, especially with Windsor, only my 3rd time brewing with it). The problem is it kept carbing in the bottle I think because of left over unfermented sugars.

Gravity had been stable when I checked it 3 days before bottling and the same on bottling day. However, they ended up massively overcarbed by the time early January came around. I "leaked off" some CO2 from each bottle a number of times and they were still overcarbed and gushers.

The taste was okay, but it developed an off taste that I think was from carbonic acid from the overcarbing combined with too much yeast getting in to the glass (because over carbed/gushers).

I ended up dumping half the batch. It wasn't horrible, but it just wasn't great after they overcarbed. I think the grain bill is mostly fine though, but I think nottingham yeast next time and make more sure that it fermented out properly.