IPA with no hops during boil

[dude1]

Just wondering:

If I brew an IPA with no hops at all during the boil, but just 1.4oz (40g) Simcoe during whirlpool + 0.7oz (20g) Mosaic and 0.7oz (20g) Galaxy in dry hopping, is there any potential fundamental problem or will it simply have its own particular hop character?

Thanks

 

[ESBrewer]

I don't think there is any fundamental problem. The beer has probably very low levels of bitterness and may feel quite soft and malty. In addition, there will be less isomerized alpha-acids that prevent bacterial growth so you want to be careful with sanitation (as always) .

 

[TimmyWit]

You will have beer but it won't be an IPA. If you're going off of BJCP guidelines for example, your beer won't meet the description (hoppy and bitter). It also won't meet the parameters (40-70 IBU). Assuming you're doing your whirlpool at knockout, you'll get some isomerization but if an IPA is what you're after, I don't think you'll be happy.

Assuming this is for a 5 gallon batch, you could add 1oz at 60 minutes. Then, double the rest of your additions. That will get you closer to the ballpark of an IPA while still having pretty restrained bitterness.

 

[jpakstis]

I've been wondering about this. I have noticed a few "0 IBU" IPAs being sold in area bottle shops and craft breweries. I figure this is how they get to that. In the latest Brew Your Own magazine, Brad Smith makes the case for not adding any hops toward the end of the boil or at flameout in order to maximize hop aroma and flavor, and just to concentrate on the bittering addition and then a whirlpool/hopstand addition, with dry hops later.

Personally I don't think I'd like the "0 IBU" IPAs. I've had, and made, some of the really soft Treehouse/Trillium-based NEIPAs and I estimated their IBUs in the 20-40 range and it can be like drinking Sunny Delight. But in reading that BYO article, I was wondering about doing just a bittering addition, then a dry hop during the biotransformation phase and then a second dry hop about a week later and skipping the whirlpool/hopstand.

So maybe I'm tweaking the original question and wondering how that would come out. Personally I never seem to get exactly on point with my whirlpool/hopstand process. I usually target 150 degrees (the BYO article recommends below 160 for hops with high myrcene oils like Amarillo or Citra or most of the typical American IPA-type hops), but then I usually end up going to 140 by the time I get back outside to the burner, or I try an actual whirlpool but it never seems to continue swirling, etc.

 

[radwizard]

Is this a 5 Gal. Batch?

 

[schematix]

I did something like this before where I only used 1lb of Citra for a 45 minute steep.

It was cloyingly sweet and totally off balance. It had about as much bitterness as a glass of orange juice, and tasted like it too.

Would definitely not repeat myself and would only advise someone to try it so they understand the contribution from this 1 discrete addition. Just know the beer will be a bit off.

 

[AkTom]

Maybe do a 1 gallon batch. Minimize disappointment, satisfy curiosity

 

[FVillatoro]

Expect tons of hop flavor and aroma.
Expect almost no bitterness and cloying malt sweetness.

 

[Miraculix]

Maybe do a 1 gallon batch. Minimize disappointment, satisfy curiosity

This kind of attitude saved me at least 10 times from brewing big almost dumper batches

Cannot recommend this strong enough!

 

[DarkStarNJ]

Go for it, Magnify Cold Side is one of the best beers I’ve ever had and that’s how it’s made.

 

[chris0879]

Any results on this?

 

[Clef051]

Just wondering:

If I brew an IPA with no hops at all during the boil, but just 1.4oz (40g) Simcoe during whirlpool + 0.7oz (20g) Mosaic and 0.7oz (20g) Galaxy in dry hopping, is there any potential fundamental problem or will it simply have its own particular hop character?

Thanks

No problems, with it I've had good IPA's made that way. I'd add more if you can though.

 

[dude1]

Any results on this?

I will bottle in a couple of days and let you know in 2-3 weeks what it gives.

 

[thehaze]

2-3 weeks is a long time to wait for the beer to carbonate. IPAs should be drank fresh. I usually pop a bottle 5-7 days from nottling and I always have carbonation. They do become a bit better after a few days, but 3 weeks is kinda long to wait to see how it turned out.

 

[schematix]

i'm making an IPA right now (with lots of hops in the boil, whirpool, and dry) and i expect to be drinking it fully carbonated and chilled within 10 days.

An ale made with good brewing practices and most yeast strains is done in mere days.

it takes about 2-3 days to ferment, a day or two to carbonate (if you rack with the yeast still active), and then a few days in cold storage to smoothen it up.

 

[dude1]

i'm making an IPA right now (with lots of hops in the boil, whirpool, and dry) and i expect to be drinking it fully carbonated and chilled within 10 days.

An ale made with good brewing practices and most yeast strains is done in mere days.

it takes about 2-3 days to ferment, a day or two to carbonate (if you rack with the yeast still active), and then a few days in cold storage to smoothen it up.

Really interesting.

I'm definitely looking for ways to shorten my times between brew day and drinking.

Do you mean you bottle after just 3 days?

If yes, don't you risk bottle bombs if the beer is still fermenting?
I guess you trust FG and that's it.

By "good brewing practices", do you have any particular points in mind other than the usual stuff?

Thanks

 

[schematix]

3 days is a approximate time frame.... depends on other factors too. If you did a 1.030 beer with british year you're probably looking at 2 days while a 1.060 beer with american yeast on the colder side (e.g. 62F) might take 4-5.

But one thing i always, always, always do now, is take gravity measurements before and during fermentation so i can see the progress. There is no set time. It's done when it's done.

When it's a couple points from final gravity, rack it and seal the keg up... day or two later you have fully carbonated beer. Little more to it but that's the concept.

 

[dude1]

3 days is a approximate time frame.... depends on other factors too. If you did a 1.030 beer with british year you're probably looking at 2 days while a 1.060 beer with american yeast on the colder side (e.g. 62F) might take 4-5.

But one thing i always, always, always do now, is take gravity measurements before and during fermentation so i can see the progress. There is no set time. It's done when it's done.

When it's a couple points from final gravity, rack it and seal the keg up... day or two later you have fully carbonated beer. Little more to it but that's the concept.

Really cool, I'll give it a try.

One more thing: would you say it's OK to use a refractometer to watch the gravity approaching FG, even though a refractometer is altered by alcohol? I don't feel like filling a test tube every time. I guess, as long as the gravity gets steady, you reached FG.

 

[Mothman]

If your only goal is to confirm that fermentation is done, then yes, you can use a refractometer. As you said, the reading won't be 'accurate' (though you can use online calculators to correct and get a somewhat accurate value), but a consistent post-fermentation refractometer reading will confirm fermentation is done.

Also, in case you didn't note the detail in Schematix's replies, the idea of packaging the beer while fermentation is still on-going to allow natural carbonation, I wouldn't suggest trying that when bottling. I'm not sure if anyone ever uses that method for bottles, I've only ever heard of it when kegging.

 

[dude1]

OK, thanks.

Which also means he doesn't need to add sugar or forced CO2?

Interesting technique, I'll try it with my kegs.

 

[Sadu]

Correct. The fermentation gas provides free co2 but also protection against oxygen damage if you rack to keg while fermentation is still in progress. Because kegs can handle high pressure and have blowoff valves they won't explode if there is more fermentation gas than you expect. Unlike bottles. Its likely that some forced co2 still needs to be applied to get the carbonation correct, but not as much as normal.

 

[schematix]

The refractometer works during fermentation, it just requires a correction and very accurate initial measurements with the refract and a hydrometer. The beauty of the refract is that you only need a drop, no need to get 6oz for a hydrometer tube.

You can naturally carbonate with bottles but your margin for error is small, and maybe too difficult. For a keg its ideal. Really all you need is a pressure gauge attached to the gas QD. If you end up with too much sugar, and consequently too much pressure, you can just release it through the PRV. You could also build a spund valve for about another $10-15.

 

[Hwk-I-St8]

3 days is a approximate time frame.... depends on other factors too. If you did a 1.030 beer with british year you're probably looking at 2 days while a 1.060 beer with american yeast on the colder side (e.g. 62F) might take 4-5.

But one thing i always, always, always do now, is take gravity measurements before and during fermentation so i can see the progress. There is no set time. It's done when it's done.

When it's a couple points from final gravity, rack it and seal the keg up... day or two later you have fully carbonated beer. Little more to it but that's the concept.

How do you know what the final gravity will be? In my experience, Brewer's Friend is usually pretty close ( a couple points either way), but that margin of error seems like it can result in anything from flat to over carbed based on your process.

 

[TimmyWit]

How do you know what the final gravity will be? In my experience, Brewer's Friend is usually pretty close ( a couple points either way), but that margin of error seems like it can result in anything from flat to over carbed based on your process.

It only works if you keg. If you overshoot, you could vent. If you undershoot, you're attaching it to gas anyhow so it will get there. It just gives you a head-start. When I started doing this, I was spunding but I found that at the time I'm transferring, there isn't enough left to ferment for it to carb completely so now I skip the spunding and then just put it on the gas when it's ready. The biggest advantage to this is you get some oxygen scavenging since the yeast are still active in the keg. It's also easy to snag gravity readings from the keg since it's pressurized.

 

[schematix]

forced ferment test (FFT)

 

[dude1]

Maybe you can still use this approach to speed up your brewing process even if you bottle: just use this technique with kegs and fill your bottles from the kegs when the beer is ready.

That's still 10 days altogether.

 

[schematix]

I kegged my 16.5 P (1.068) IPA last night at T: +102 hours (4 days and change) since yeast was pitched. FFT sample finished at 2.6 P (84% AA) and the main batch was at 4 P. This morning it was already carbed to 1.6 vols. I'm thinking tonight or tomorrow morning it'll be ready to crash to 30F in order to get a good hard chill in preparation for a sloshy weekend. 7.5% ABV....

 

[dude1]

Just as a follow-up, my beer with strictly no hops during the boil turn out, not very surprisingly, pretty sweet, but not unpleasant at all.

It could actually be interesting for people who usually order Cherry Kriek or such sweet stuff.

I'm going to give it a new try with a more standard hop schedule and beef that up as well.

 

[kingmatt]

Depending on your whirlpool temp, time and the hops/amounts you use, you can extract a good amount of bitterness this way.

I generally do a very small 15 min addition and then a huge whirlpool addition for my NEIPAs and they turn out great. In fact, I think my next batch will be whirlpool and dry hop only.

 

[LostHopper]

I just finished a small 2.25 gallon experimental batch using DME and cryo hops.
No boil.
Heated to 180 added 0.75 oz Cascade Cryo. Held for 20 minutes at 180.
Free fall to 145 added 0.75 oz Citra Cryo. Allowed to fall for 20 minutes where it reached about 120.
Chill
US-05

Definitely bitter but not pronounced. Fruity hop aroma and flavor but not Sunny Delight.
No DMS
My wife loves the beer. Which is ALWAYS good since I did this on the stove top.

I'm going to try this again but bring just to a boil then add small hop charge. Then repeat above.

I really liked using the Cryo hops in a small batch because the debris was minimal. Usually minimal boil or zero boil requires upping the hops which makes a bigger trub mess in a smaller container.