Inmmersion Chiller vs Counter Flow

[Homebrewcrazy]

Hi All,

I presently have an immersion chiller which I use to chill my wort. Usually takes me approx 15-20 minutes to get a 10 gallon batch of wort down to 75-80 degrees. I'm thinking of buying a counter flow chiller and was wondering what the pro's and con's are...

I assume this is a much quicker more efficient way of cooling, with less time being spent on cooling and less time the wort has to be exposed to the elements..

Does anyone have any suggestions as to which one to get? 50' vs 25'?? I assume the smaller diameter copper the more efficient?

Cheers,
Frank

 

[TwoHeadsBrewing]

There are a few threads on this already, but I'll just relay my personal preference after trying both an immersion chiller and a CFC.

I like the simplicity of the immersion chiller; put in the boil to sanitize, turn off the hose water when the wort is cooled, spray it off to clean. However, the CFC has one distinct advantage: you cool and rack at the same time. There are a couple negatives about CFC's though that come to mind: slow flow using gravity, and sanitizing. If you have a pump, flow is great and and that's what I use without any problems. This also solves the sanitation issue, you just recirculate boiling wort in the chiller for 20 minutes without the hose water on. BUT, if you don't have a pump it can make this step kind of a PITA.

Overall, I like my CFC but it's not quite as simple or easy to clean as an IC. The advantage to the CFC is the cooling is quicker and more efficient, and racking is done at the same time you cool. If you have a pump, you'll like the CFC a lot more. If you don't want to lay out the $$$ for a pump, hose, and connections just go with the immersion chiller.

 

[Homebrewcrazy]

If I do this I'm going to do it right, so more then likely I will purchase a pump for the chiller as well..

Do you have any suggestions on s CFC?

Thanks

 

[quickerNu]

Immersion chillers are nice and easy, but down here in August my tap water comes out at 87 degrees. Hard to get a beer down to 100 in 20 minutes or less without an ice bath, too. I wish I would have just bought the CFC first.

 

[Homercidal]

If I do this I'm going to do it right, so more then likely I will purchase a pump for the chiller as well..

Do you have any suggestions on s CFC?

Thanks

I use a CFC and have never used an IC. If you are planning on buying a pump for the CFC, then why not use the IC and build a Whirlpool chiller like what Jamil uses?

That said, I love my CFC and don't plan on replacing it any time soon. But I can cool 5 gallons down to pitching temp in about 10 minutes or so, depending on the season.

 

[bob1852]

There are a few threads on this already, but I'll just relay my personal preference after trying both an immersion chiller and a CFC.

I like the simplicity of the immersion chiller; put in the boil to sanitize, turn off the hose water when the wort is cooled, spray it off to clean. However, the CFC has one distinct advantage: you cool and rack at the same time. There are a couple negatives about CFC's though that come to mind: slow flow using gravity, and sanitizing. If you have a pump, flow is great and and that's what I use without any problems. This also solves the sanitation issue, you just recirculate boiling wort in the chiller for 20 minutes without the hose water on. BUT, if you don't have a pump it can make this step kind of a PITA.

Overall, I like my CFC but it's not quite as simple or easy to clean as an IC. The advantage to the CFC is the cooling is quicker and more efficient, and racking is done at the same time you cool. If you have a pump, you'll like the CFC a lot more. If you don't want to lay out the $$$ for a pump, hose, and connections just go with the immersion chiller.

I'll pretty much agree to everything TwoHeads said here.

I too went through the CFC v. IC thought process and settled on a CFC for the following reasons:

1) my LHBS sold me one for pretty cheap
2) my tap water is generally cool enough year round to cool with a 1-pass gravity flow
3) CFC uses less water than a IC

Some days I do wish I went with an IC for ease of cleaning. the CFC needs to be cleaned out, sanitized, and stored in a way to make cleaning/sanitizing easy the next brew day. Right now, after chilling, I run boiling water through the CFC, then run an iodophor solution, and cap both ends. On the next brew day, I drain it, run boiling water through it, and then sanitize. With an IC you just rinse and you're done.

Check out the DIY threads, and you can build one yourself, or check out what's offered at some of the on-line vendors

 

[jgln]

About how many gallons of water is used (wasted) to cool 5 gal down?

 

[bob1852]

About how many gallons of water is used (wasted) to cool 5 gal down?

My CFC from boiling to 75* uses about 15-20 gallons (I collect it in a 19 gallon tub and use it to water plants)

Even at the coldest times of the year, it would be double with the IC and an ice bath

 

[mkling]

I don't have a CFC, but I'll point out what Jamil says on the Brewing Network radio is one major disadvantage of CFCs -- that is that they are only cooling the wort passing through them. This means that the rest of the wort sitting in the boil kettle is still sitting there at near 212F. If it takes 15 minutes to cool through the CFC, that means a lot of wort was sitting at high temps for quite a while. With an IC, all the wort gets cooled at about the same rate. The disadvantage is it may take longer, but you can get the full volume below 140F and 100F much faster. (I should remember why 140F & 100F are so important, but I'm not sure.) I think getting to below 140F is important for decreasing chances of DMS forming -- which can be a problem for CFC for the wort sitting in the kettle waiting to be cooled.

 

[humann_brewing]

One other variable to think about is what kind of kettle do you have? if you have a aluminum one, it won't hold the heat in as much as stainless. T

his is a benefit if you have a IC as the liquid just stays in the kettle while cooling but if you have a stainless kettle, to cool faster you should circulate the wort out of the kettle and through the CFC to help cool the kettle and the wort faster.

 

[Homebrewcrazy]

Are there any issues with blockage from hops or trub?

 

[Homercidal]

Are there any issues with blockage from hops or trub?

Yes, it is a possibility, although I personally have not had a problem after brewing even an IPA. My last beer was the worst, which was a Wit. I used some fresh grated orange peel and it did tend to stop up the hose. A bit of massaging, though and it came right out.

My technique is to whilrpool the wort, and try to siphon from the top of the kettle. With an IC, there is no worry, so that is a bonus.

 

[Newbeerguy]

Hi All,

I presently have an immersion chiller which I use to chill my wort. Usually takes me approx 15-20 minutes to get a 10 gallon batch of wort down to 75-80 degrees. I'm thinking of buying a counter flow chiller and was wondering what the pro's and con's are...

I assume this is a much quicker more efficient way of cooling, with less time being spent on cooling and less time the wort has to be exposed to the elements..

Does anyone have any suggestions as to which one to get? 50' vs 25'?? I assume the smaller diameter copper the more efficient?

Cheers,
Frank

I would think you would have a hard time justifing the cost of a CFC with cooling times like this already. Personally I just use an ice water bath and whirlpooling to get my 5 gallons to 70 in 15 minutes. I never even touch my IC....but thats just my 2 cents.

 

[Homercidal]

I would think you would have a hard time justifing the cost of a CFC with cooling times like this already. Personally I just use an ice water bath and whirlpooling to get my 5 gallons to 70 in 15 minutes. I never even touch my IC....but thats just my 2 cents.

Oh, it's a 10 gallon batch? I wouldn't mess with a CFC either. That is really very good!

 

[quickerNu]

A bit of massaging, though and it came right out.

Are you busy Friday night.....?

 

[BlindLemonLars]

I don't have a CFC, but I'll point out what Jamil says on the Brewing Network radio is one major disadvantage of CFCs -- that is that they are only cooling the wort passing through them. This means that the rest of the wort sitting in the boil kettle is still sitting there at near 212F. I think getting to below 140F is important for decreasing chances of DMS forming -- which can be a problem for CFC for the wort sitting in the kettle waiting to be cooled.

Of course if you're recirculating through your CFC, that argument goes out the window. I recirculate through my plate chiller anyhow, to sanitize it with boiling wort, and because my ground water is usually too warm to sufficiently cool the wort with one pass.

The no-chill guys would definitely debate the DMS issue...still, I'm not sure I'd go that route.

 

[Synovia]

I use a CFC and have never used an IC. If you are planning on buying a pump for the CFC, then why not use the IC and build a Whirlpool chiller like what Jamil uses?

Because a CFC is still way more efficient.


I Don't have a pump, and hate my CFC. too hard to clean, too hard to get started, etc.

 

[Synovia]

I don't have a CFC, but I'll point out what Jamil says on the Brewing Network radio is one major disadvantage of CFCs -- that is that they are only cooling the wort passing through them. This means that the rest of the wort sitting in the boil kettle is still sitting there at near 212F. If it takes 15 minutes to cool through the CFC, that means a lot of wort was sitting at high temps for quite a while. With an IC, all the wort gets cooled at about the same rate. The disadvantage is it may take longer, but you can get the full volume below 140F and 100F much faster.

Right, but with an IC, the wort is sitting between 80 and 150 for a long time, and that is the range where its most likely to get infected by wild yeast, or anything else in the air.

 

[tdavisii]

I find the opposite is true. I think my cfc is easy to clean and I absolutly love it.

 

[Synovia]

I think getting to below 140F is important for decreasing chances of DMS forming -- which can be a problem for CFC for the wort sitting in the kettle waiting to be cooled.

I don't understand how a long boil reduces DMS, but sitting at 212 is going to increase DMS?

 

[michael.berta]

+1 on Jamil's whirpool immersion chiller

Whirlpool Chiller

I have all the parts on order and should use be using this pretty soon.

 

[Elfmaze]

I don't understand how a long boil reduces DMS, but sitting at 212 is going to increase DMS?

Because as i understand it, DMS is produced whenever the wort is hot. BUT it evaporates out of solution in a roiling boil.

 

[TwoHeadsBrewing]

DMS is a myth, at least in my experience. There is no perceivable difference in taste between carboy #1 and #2, and if there were it would be hard to tell if it was due to the separate fermentations.

<ducks>

 

[Homebrewcrazy]

So maybe I'm not doing so bad with the IC and it may not be worth switching.

Although I do like Jamil's Whirlpool Chiller...

 

[JoeMama]

Right, but with an IC, the wort is sitting between 80 and 150 for a long time, and that is the range where its most likely to get infected by wild yeast, or anything else in the air.

I would personally consider this a small (if non) issue. Ive had leaves, grass blades, bugs, my sweat, you name it - fall into my cooling wort.

Still havent had a wild yeast infection.
(Good thing the wife doesnt like brewing...) DOH!
-Me

 

[riromero]

I would personally consider this a small (if non) issue. Ive had leaves, grass blades, bugs, my sweat, you name it - fall into my cooling wort.

Still havent had a wild yeast infection.
(Good thing the wife doesnt like brewing...) DOH!
-Me

I brew outside and once when it was cold I brewed right next to my back door so I could stay warm inside and still keep an eye on my boil. Little did I know that the steam was condensing on the eaves and dripping dirty water back into the kettle the whole time, including while it was cooling down and waiting to be transferred. I thought it was ruined for sure, but it turned out great.

 

[BlindLemonLars]

Ive had leaves, grass blades, bugs, my sweat, you name it - fall into my cooling wort.

Wow...I would consider all of those things to be thoroughly unacceptable. My kettle gets a lid put on it (loosely) as soon as the temperature starts to drop. Especially during summer...too many bugs around, and too much dust/debris blowing in the wind.

 

[Homebrewcrazy]

That is exactly why I am considering the CFC rather then the IC!

My concern is not how long it takes me to chill the wort, but rather less risk for conatmination...