Infected?

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specialkayme

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I've been fortunate that over the past 45 brews, I haven't had anything that was infected (that I knew about at least). I made my first Gose a few weeks ago (kettle soured with cultured lacto from Omega). It kettle soured for about 36 hours, got down to the target pH, boiled to sanitize, and the rest of the brew went as planned. I put it into the ferm chamber, pitched a well populated yeast from a starter, and let it do its thing, confirmed activity at 2 days, and had to go on vacation for a week. When I returned, I found the air lock popped off at some point while I was gone, leaving it exposed to the air of the ferm chamber. Not too concerned, I put the air lock back in place and went back to my life. Sg was 1.010 when I checked it. A keg wasn't ready for another 2 weeks, so I let it sit. I checked on it today (2 weeks later) and there was mold growing in the ferm chamber, as well as on the outside of the carboy. The beer has a white "film" on it. I checked the SG and it's still 1.010. I tasted it, and it tastes like a Gose, sour and a little salty.

The lower pH of a Gose would have me believe it's less likely to be infected. I've never found a white film on a batch before, but I've also never brewed a Gose before.

Infected? What are your thoughts?
 

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The film is called a pellicle.
It indicates the presence of wild microbes (yeast and/or bacteria) and oxygen.
The wild microbes are not dangerous to your health.

I would package it as normal. It's likely it will be fine, especially since you'll keep it cold in the keg (right?).

Clean your equipment thoroughly.

Cheers
 
Any issue or concern with it infecting my keg lines?
In my opinion a thorough cleaning process is adequate to prevent any issues and should be used frequently. Do you already use something like Liquid Line Cleaner?

There's no guarantee of course.
 
I use BLC. Just cleaned out the lines, actually.

In light of the fact that the lines could get infected, would I be better off bottling it? Keeping it refrigerated after bottling, of course.
 
As I said, I would treat it like normal and use a thorough cleaning afterwards.

If you want to bottle it that's fine too. Keeping bottles cold after carbonating is a good plan.

Any batch may be contaminated, even if you don't see a pellicle. Pellicles only form in the process of oxygen, so good oxygen control means that you won't ever see a visual indication of contamination. Also, many wild microbes don't form pellicle even when oxygen is present.
Therefore, in my opinion, knowing a batch is contaminated shouldn't really change your process because you should also be protecting against cross-contamination from all the batches that might be contaminated. Most of the times batches are contaminated, we don't know it. If fact, it's likely that most or even all of our batches come into contact with wild microbes since we don't brew in a sterile environment.

Hope this makes sense!
 
That makes sense. Thanks.

I've always cleaned carboys and kegs thoroughly between batches in the event there was a potential infection that wasn't apparent, but haven't routinely cleaned beer lines between batches (typically only after a few months, or when the lines appear a little worse for the wear), although I guess it makes sense.

It just seems a little odd to me that I'd follow the same procedure of a beer that I know is infected that I would have followed for a beer that I think might be infected. So would the only time you'd toss a batch due to contamination be if you knew (or believed) it was infected AND there was an off flavor?
 
So would the only time you'd toss a batch due to contamination be if you knew (or believed) it was infected AND there was an off flavor?
Any batch with mold contacting the beer would get dumped immediately.
The presence of a pellicle wouldn't affect how I treat the beer, but I would be likely to dump it if there were a microbial off-flavor (unless maybe if it's a good unexpected flavor).

I frequently use wild microbes, Brett, and bacteria. Contamination is always on my mind. I bottle everything and my normal cleaning process is the most thorough that I've ever seen anyone use...

Comfort level is an interesting thing. Think of first time brewers that get scared when they see a brown clumpy foam on top of their beer. I try to suggest what I believe is the most logical approach to contamination, leaving aside these feelings.

Hope your beer is good!
:mug:
 
After I let the beer sit, chill and carbonate, it's clearly infected. Horrible off flavors, so I dumped it.

Oh well. I'll try again once I can get my hands back on a lacto culture.
 
I want to promote modern processes.
In my opinion kettle souring is an antiquated method from before the use of L. plantarum became popular.

Compared to kettle souring, co- and post-souring methods are easier and involve less risk of contamination, and create an equal or better tasting beer. That's my opinion anyway. Although other brewers using these methods seem to agree.
 
Do you mind explaining a little more why you believe kettle souring is antiquated, harder, and has more risk of contamination? Still learning here, and your point of view would be very helpful.

So, the method I used (At least I thought) provided the most control over the souring process, and the least chance of contamination. My process involved:
1. Mashing (as usual, I BIAB, so pulling the bag out and all).
2. Boil for 10 min to sanitize wort, chill to 95 deg.
3. Keeping the wort in the kettle, maintaining a 95 deg. temp. post boiling
4. Pitching a pure lacto (Omega) culture, sealing kettle and purging headspace with CO2
5. Periodically checking pH, and once you hit the desired level, boil to kill the lacto, then continue brew day as usual (Add hops, chill, ferment with yeast)

This way, I can control the exact pH level I reach. I'm also keeping the wort at 95 deg, which is optimum for the lacto culture but not ideal for most wild yeast strains, reducing my souring time (I think it was roughly 24 hours last time), which reduces my chances of having wild yeast or bacteria take over. Plus by sterilizing the wort with a boil both before and after the lacto addition, I have more control.

With both Co-Souring and Post-Souring, if the lacto addition is somehow tainted, I have no control over it. I also have no control over how sour it will go, and typically can't add a hop addition.

So where is my thinking going wrong?
 
Do you mind explaining a little more why you believe kettle souring is antiquated, harder, and has more risk of contamination? Still learning here, and your point of view would be very helpful.
Sure, happy to help.

Your kettle souring process is fine, although most brewers also pre-acidify to pH 4.0-4.5 to improve head retention and prevent or reduce impact from potential contaminants.

Advantages of co-souring or post-souring (which I will refer to as "modern methods") versus kettle souring :

Simplicity.
The modern method brew day fits into one day and is basically the same as any other brew day.
Modern methods are good with only one boil, or no boil. Kettle souring involves two separate boils ideally, and two chilling steps.
Modern methods do not require maintaining a controlled high temperature in the brew kettle. A kettle sour doesn't require heat either, but it does take longer to sour at lower temperature which increases contamination risk.
Modern methods do not require CO2 purging or pre-acidification. Arguably these aren't needed for kettle sours either but there are potential downsides to not using these additional steps when kettle souring.
Modern methods do not require an increased yeast pitching rate. It's often recommended to increase pitch rate for kettle sours under pH 3.5 to reduce yeast stress and guarantee a good attenuation.
Modern methods better tolerate low Lacto pitch rates and therefore never require a Lacto starter.

Faster.
Modern methods shave off however many days that it takes for the separate souring step.
Modern method sours ferment faster because the yeast goes through it's normal lag and growth phase without being inhibited by acidity. The acidity is slowly increased throughout fermentation so the yeast is never acid shocked.

Safer.
Wort is a microbe growth medium, especially unhopped wort without healthy yeast activity. A huge spectrum of microbes would love the opportunity to feast on the malt sugars at 95°F. Higher temps are needed for inhibition. MTF recommends 113-120°F for sour mashing. Sauergut is generally held at 118°F. However, L. plantarum itself cannot tolerate these temperatures.
Kettle soured batches experience contamination at seemingly a much higher rate (during the souring phase) than non-sour batches. The risk is obviously high. The kettle isn't designed to be air-tight or fitted with an airlock, and it pulls in ambient air full of microbes any time it starts to cool.
Modern methods provide far less opportunity for wild microbes to gain a foothold in the wort because the wort isn't sitting unprotected. A normal yeast fermentation provides a great deal of natural protection against wild microbe activity by removing oxygen, lowering pH, producing alcohol, and removing nutrients. And CO2 production maintains positive pressure, keeping out microbes during fermentation.
L. plantarum itself will not cause contamination.

Better tasting.
Acidity greatly suppresses yeast expression. Therefore yeast add little or nothing to the flavor profile in kettle soured beer.
Bacteria add desirable flavor. Boiling removes a lot of it.
These factors tend to produce kettle sours that are rather bland and one-note. This is probably the main reason adjuncts are so frequently used.
By comparison modern methods can produce nice complex beers that are quite fruity using the variety of fruity yeast strains available. No adjuncts needed.
Modern methods boil at an "optimal" pH for the chemistry that happens during the boil, potentially reducing off-flavors and staling compounds. YMMV.

With both Co-Souring and Post-Souring, if the lacto addition is somehow tainted, I have no control over it. I also have no control over how sour it will go, and typically can't add a hop addition.
The plantarum cultures we have available aren't "tainted". Your worries are unfounded; it's been widely demonstrated that we use clean cultures.
I'm not sure how kettle souring would be any better even if they were -- the high temp and lack of yeast fermentation would encourage off-flavors.

Sourness is just as easy to control if not moreso with modern methods. Simply add hops when it reaches the desired sourness. Easy Peasy!
The souring process occurs more slowly, so it's easier to catch it near a particular pH if you want to stop it from souring further.
Also, since the beer is fermented to some degree, it's easier to taste the sourness since there's less sweetness in the beer, making it easier to judge the sourness by taste.

Advantages to kettle souring:
It might be better to kettle sour if you're making a "sour IPA" and want to use a lot of hops and add a substantial amount of bitterness? A kettle sour may or may not be easier than making a large hop tea with a complex hop schedule or making a separate batch for blending. However hop tea has been super awesome at adding hop flavor in my experience.
If you like an exceptionally clean (lager-like) and one-note sour, then kettle souring is definitely the way to go.

Hope this all makes sense. Happy souring!

:mug:
 
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Thanks for taking the time to provide that response. I had to read it a few times to fully digest most of it.

Sourness is just as easy to control if not moreso with modern methods. Simply add hops when it reaches the desired sourness. Easy Peasy!

How would you add the hops at this point in time? A hop tea? How do you calculate the anticipated IBU?
 
Dry hop or hop tea.

For hop tea I suggest to book 0.5-1oz hops in 300-500mL for 5 minutes. It won't add much bitterness.
 
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