Induction cooker and a PID - doable?

[aces-n-eights]

I'm fairly new here and have been doing a lot of reading. My next step in equipment is to use an induction cooker/hot plate and i want to control it with a PID.

The cooker i'm looking at is the Avantco 3500w, 220v countertop cooker. I don't own this cooker yet, but it's the one i'm leaning toward now.

I've contacted Auberin and they say that if the cooker shuts off when the power is disconnected, their PID will not work.

So has anyone opened one of these cookers up and rewired it to bypass some electronic controller or other widget to allow it to be controlled by a PID? Could you directly wire the heating element to power so it can be controlled by a PID?

Thanks!

 

[Bensiff]

Obviously the power will shut off when the power is disconnected. You need to know if the settings will remain the same when power comes back on.

 

[aces-n-eights]

As i understand with this cooker, you must press the power button each time the power is interrupted. And thats how the PID works- power on, power off to maintain the set temp. It appears a PID will not work with this unit as is.

So, is there a way to bypass the power button or connect the heating element directly to power so a PID can be installed?

 

[Wynne-R]

No, it won’t work. Even if you were to bypass the control circuits, the pulses from the PID would destroy the electronics.

 

[Pezzonovante11]

You could use the PID in hysteresis mode and that should work, theoretically.

 

[Wynne-R]

I didn’t know PID’s did that. I still don’t think it will work. You’d be switching it 1/min instead of 100/sec but the problem remains. When you interrupt the power to an inductor, it produces a voltage spike (inductive kick). The original control circuit is probably designed to switch it off when the current is zero in the big induction coil.

Even if you could find someone good enough to hot wire this thing, it will probably be destroyed from the inductive kick.

It seems you are trying to use a $200 cooker as a $50 heating element. What are you trying to accomplish?

 

[aces-n-eights]

Thanks for the discussion, guys. I have some research to do… I need to understand both "hysteresis mode" and "inductive kick". Time to get smart…

It seems you are trying to use a $200 cooker as a $50 heating element. What are you trying to accomplish?

That's a good question. The pros of an induction heater are that it heats the bottom of the pot, they heat faster than direct heat, the heat is more accurately controlled than gas and they stop heating the moment the pot is removed with very little residual heat left on the heater.

The PID is there to maintain tighter temperature control.

So basically i like the technology and efficiency of the induction heater and the accuracy and convenience of a PID.

But can they work together - that's my question.

 

[jeffmeh]

Thanks for the discussion, guys. I have some research to do… I need to understand both "hysteresis mode" and "inductive kick". Time to get smart…




That's a good question. The pros of an induction heater are that it heats the bottom of the pot, they heat faster than direct heat, the heat is more accurately controlled than gas and they stop heating the moment the pot is removed with very little residual heat left on the heater.

The PID is there to maintain tighter temperature control.

So basically i like the technology and efficiency of the induction heater and the accuracy and convenience of a PID.

But can they work together - that's my question.

Apparently not without a very sophisticated hack. That said, an immersed heating element will heat even faster than an induction cooker, with even less wasted heat.

 

[aces-n-eights]

Apparently not without a very sophisticated hack. That said, an immersed heating element will heat even faster than an induction cooker, with even less wasted heat.

Thanks. Yes, that is the conclusion i've come to. It was a good for me to think through the idea and i appreciate everyones input.

 

[jchambers]

How did it work out? I'm looking for an induction cooker capable doing low temps for mashing ~35C and high temps for boiling later

 

[Weezy]

One of the prime benefits of induction is that the heating element doesn't touch the wort, which means no scorching and easy cleanup.

External temperature control won't work as induction relies on IC circuitry (I.e., it can't respond to an external on/off switch). Some have expensive temp probes though and the avantco can be hacked to make it's internal temp probe into any external for true temp control by the unit itself.

 

[brewster2012]

I seem to recall seeing another thread with an induction cooktop that had analog controls. One would think that would be more conducive to hacking. I think it was only an 1800w - 120v unit, however.

 

[Boydric]

If this is out of the capabilities of a PID could a bcs handle this if you adapted/converted the cooktop programming to run on the bcs? Then just bypass the controls on the cook top.

 

[jamorgan3777]

I have been interested in this for a while, but have not seen a clean solution yet. I run BIAB on the 3500W Avantco burner and like it a lot. Gives me a good boil for 5 gal batches, is quiet and I can run it in a closed garage. The solution I have been thinking about is adding a smaller 110V PID rims tube to the system for mash. Use the induction to get up to mash temp, then kick on the rims tube in recirculation mode to control mash temps. I think this would work well. A fairly small rims tube would only be needed to maintain temperature loss.

 

[Weezy]

I seem to recall seeing another thread with an induction cooktop that had analog controls. One would think that would be more conducive to hacking. I think it was only an 1800w - 120v unit, however.

A dial wheel ≠ analog

These are essentially already computer controlled internally fellas. This is a whole system of controls checking temperatures, outputting a complex wave signal to generate EMF thorough the coils, etc. There's no way to bypass those required controls on the PCB.

Here's the hack I did on mine:
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=518213

 

[Foamenter]

http://openschemes.com/2011/04/28/manual-control-of-the-1-8kw-induction-cooktop/

The cooktop on that page is manufactured by the same company as the Avantco. Short story, it can be done.
I've started working on a project to use an Arduino to read voltage coming from the pins on the control board, and send a PWM signal to the main board to control the temperature based on input from an external sensor and an Arduino PID library.

Wish me luck.

IMG_20171027_155350 by Foamenter, on Flickr

 

[Lmiller1708]

How did the arduino hack work out?

 

[Lmiller1708]

Just an update... With help from the above post by Foamenter I was able to get my Avantco 3500 working with a PID controller... Now I'm hooking it up to a Arduino. I'm Making really good progress and should have all the parts here by the end of the week and I will hopefully have something running this weekend!

NOTE: My control board on the Avantco was bad (my fault), so I have made it work with the Arduino.

More details to come!

 

[Lmiller1708]

Another update... I was able to get the burner working with the arduino! See more details here: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/...induction-burner-hacked-by-an-arduino.643805/