Ice Cider VS Boiled Cider

[GustyWinds]

I have an orchard and will be doing some serious pressing this year. I'd like to experiment in reducing fresh pressed juice into syrups. Last year we cooked down some into a thick apple Molasses which is delicious.

I'm wondering if anyone here has experimented with freeze concentration to the point of syrup (maple syrup consistency). I would assume multiple rounds of freezing and thawing? Is it possible to create syrup this way?

I'd like to store the syrup and use it for multiple purposes, including adding to fermentations to up the sugar content (using a homemade source instead of a store bought). My concern with boiling is the cooked apple flavor it may impart on future fermentations, especially if I use a lot which I would to replace honey in my high gravity melomels.

I appreciate any insights and recommendations.

 

[mwilcox]

maple syrup specific gravity is, what, 1.35-6, somewhere around there? That's almost twice as far as I've concentrated juice, sorry. I'm not even sure what the freeze point of something that's 65-70% sugar would be. Could the average freezer even handle it? - I've got no idea; let us know.

 

[Maylar]

If you figure that frozen concentrate is off the scale of my hydrometer and it's not "syrup", I don't know how you'd that consistency without cooking it.

 

[MindenMan]

Freeze concentration is how ice ciders are made these days; do you have a big very cold freezer? IIRC, -30*F would be a good place to start. Your rate of return is likely to be in the 25% range depending upon how far you let the ice melt after the syrup drains off. I personally do a lot of freeze concentration of my apple products, so that is how I know.

 

[doug293cz]

You could use a vacuum system to boil off water at reduced temperatures. You would need a vessel that can withstand external pressure, and a vacuum pump that can deal with huge amounts of water vapor (maybe a root blower.) You also need a way to apply some heat to make up for the latent heat of vaporization that will cause the cider to cool, which would just make the task more difficult. This kind of process is used industrially. Not sure how often DIY'ers attempt it.

Brew on

 

[GustyWinds]

Freeze concentration is how ice ciders are made these days; do you have a big very cold freezer? IIRC, -30*F would be a good place to start. Your rate of return is likely to be in the 25% range depending upon how far you let the ice melt after the syrup drains off. I personally do a lot of freeze concentration of my apple products, so that is how I know.

Yeah, this is the line of thought I'm thinking as well. What kind of freezer are you using to achieve these lower temperature ranges. Could you describe your process a bit.

I'm thinking that the first three rounds of freezing and thawing can be done at normal freezer temps, then some an ultra-low freezer to finish off concentrate into a syrup. Have you been able to achieve syrup consistency with lower temps? If so, how does it compare to boiled cider syrup.

 

[MindenMan]

I have a freezer I purchased at my (previously) local appliance store and it gets cold. The producers such as Eden when they make their ice ciders they leave the giant industrial cubes of juice outside to freeze. The water and the "syrup" don't really freeze at the same time as a high sugar gravity liquid will still be liquid when the water portion has become ice. I am not familiar with boiled cider syrup, but the flavor of a cooked syrup vs. a uncooked syrup will be very different. In a modern frost-free freezer if you are willing to wait will do a great job of separating the syrup (whether it is full of alcohol or not) every time there is a bit of warming temperature (defrost) the ice crystals squeeze out what is not water, and for me it has always risen to the top. If you look at my applejack after a few days in the "regular" freezer there is a golden layer of very high proof liquid apple liquor. I cannot give justice to the industrial process here as it is too lengthy, but if you use Google you will find hundreds of videos describing what you are asking about.

 

[bmd2k1]

I have an orchard and will be doing some serious pressing this year. I'd like to experiment in reducing fresh pressed juice into syrups. Last year we cooked down some into a thick apple Molasses which is delicious.

I'm wondering if anyone here has experimented with freeze concentration to the point of syrup (maple syrup consistency). I would assume multiple rounds of freezing and thawing? Is it possible to create syrup this way?

I'd like to store the syrup and use it for multiple purposes, including adding to fermentations to up the sugar content (using a homemade source instead of a store bought). My concern with boiling is the cooked apple flavor it may impart on future fermentations, especially if I use a lot which I would to replace honey in my high gravity melomels.

I appreciate any insights and recommendations.

Do you make your apple molasses on a regular basis? Wondering what kind of reduction do you typically do (start & finish volumes)? How long does your typical boil down take?

Thanks & Cheers [emoji111]