I need a little help here plz :) Pulp or not to pulp....that is the question

[Tim P]

Ive made cider many times using my grandmothers methods. Her "golden ratio" is 1/3 mashed apples to 2/3 water and add 1lb of sugar for every gallon of water added. (33gal primary so 10gal apple mash, 20gal H2O and 20lb of sugar)
Ive upped my technique over the years and am making 4, 33 gallon batches at a time. My yearly total is about 200-ish gallons. I filter it eventually through a 1 micron filter and UV light.
I tried a smaller table top fruit press, but it was just too small for me and let the idea go.......until I stumbled into this forum and saw pics of presses, so I built one. I made it out of a shop press and an 20 ton air/hydraulic jack

So my question is.....do all you fellas grind/press and straight ferment the juice?
Whats the benefits of fermenting straight juice other than it clearing soon?
If crushed and juiced....could i still get away with grandmas "golden ratio" of 1/3 juice, 2/3 water and 1lb of sugar to every gallon of water added?
How man people do it my way? Crush add water and sugar + yeast? (71b)

Any advice will be read and appreciated!
I added pics of my press (I used white oak for the staves). A pic of my garbage disposal table(it works ok). The #32 meat grinder is powered by a 1hp motor and its gear box is a 32;1. Lastly is a pic of one of my 33gal primary (yes its a domed lid and has lots of head space, but i put the lid on.....evacuate the oxy with CO2 and then put air lock in)

Thanks for reading this far!

cheers, Tim

 

[doublejef]

So my question is.....do all you fellas grind/press and straight ferment the juice?
Whats the benefits of fermenting straight juice other than it clearing soon?

I think the big majority of people do press and ferment juice yes.
I would say that benefits are many :
- You can easily transfert juice, crushed apple not.
- Crushed apple mean pieces of apple floating that can be starting point for infection, oxydation and so on.
- Pure juice should has more flavour that crushed apple with water and sugar

If crushed and juiced....could i still get away with grandmas "golden ratio" of 1/3 juice, 2/3 water and 1lb of sugar to every gallon of water added?

You can but I guess you will get something flavourless comparing to a pure fermented juice.
If you really want to go that way, take a look on apfelwein which is apple juice boosted with sugar (but no water). It give something with more alcool but less apple flavour, it's basically apple wine.

 

[madscientist451]

Whats the benefits of fermenting straight juice other than it clearing soon?

Fermented juice tastes much different than fermented sugar water. My goal has always been to find the right combination of apples to make a cider that I want to drink. I've tried adding sugar to all kinds of fruit juices and I don't like the taste of the resulting beverage.

 

[toadie]

You could try comparing sugar water apple juice to straight apple juice! You will likely be impressed.

You shouldn't ferment under airlock, wait until you reach final gravity to put an airlock on.

When the juice is done fermenting you should transfer to a glass (or other suitable material) container if you are aging for a while.

If you want a good sugar water fermented drink look up skeeter pee or dragons blood. Both are light on fruit but taste pretty good.

 

[Maylar]

The classic method is to press apple pulp (apples chopped in a scratter), and ferment the resulting cider full strength. No water, no added sugar. The typical pressed cider will have a starting gravity of about 1.050 which will yield about 6.5% ABV hard cider. The end result is a direct function of which apples you use in the mix. You need sugar (sweet apples), some acid (tart apples) and some tannin (bittersweets).

 

[doublejef]

You shouldn't ferment under airlock, wait until you reach final gravity to put an airlock on.

Could you explain this part. Majority here uses airlock from start to end I think.

 

[toadie]

Yup coming from a beer making start I thought the airlock was gospel. The wine people quickly told me about the error in my ways. I'm sure @Maylar or @bernardsmith might have a better explanation. Cider is more like wine as it is made with fruit. Use an open bucket or something similar, cover well with a cloth to prevent beasties from coming in. The yeast will have plenty of oxygen to get started and vigorously start the ferment. You should look at it daily and stir and froth it up. The "wine" will have a blanket of co2 above it which will protect it. You then transfer to a carboy when gravity is around 1010 which ensures fermentation is still happening and therefore oxidation is mostly mitigated. The gravity when transfer happens is a personal choice and in reality life happens. After a few more weeks under airlock I then transfer off of the lees into another carboy and minimize air space. Now is when you can add potassium metabisulfite to stabilize if you want. I go easy on this as I bottle carb after around 5 months. Hope that helps!

 

[MtnGoatJoe]

So my question is.....do all you fellas grind/press and straight ferment the juice?

I honestly never thought of adding water. Plenty of people add sugar, but water? This is the first time I've heard of someone doing that. But hey, if it works for you, then keep on fermenting.

Whats the benefits of fermenting straight juice other than it clearing soon?

I've never done it your way, so I can't speak to that. I would think there's a lot more nuance to the flavor of 100% juice.

If crushed and juiced....could i still get away with grandmas "golden ratio" of 1/3 juice, 2/3 water and 1lb of sugar to every gallon of water added?

I don't see how this would make any difference.

How man people do it my way? Crush add water and sugar + yeast? (71b)

Relish your uniqueness.

 

[Tim P]

-Well here’s a bit of my update. I ground about 200lbs of apples pressed them and that got me +15 gallons of juice. So obviously I decided not to ferment the pulp!
-my 20 ton press made short work of the pillow cases used to hold the apples.
-I added sodium meta bisulphate to the juice
-I am going to still do my grandma’s ratio of apples (now juice) to water…. But this time a little more heavy on the juice side.
-I am totally amazed at the absence of moisture in the left over pressed apple. Pressing is VERY VERY efficient!
-
-So what do you all do for pressing bags? I found some 5 gallon paint strainer bags on Amazon that look promising! I’ve heard some people use a drapery fabric too!

 

[toadie]

I brought my brew in a bag (for beer from @wilserbrewer recommended on this site) to the fabric store and got a coupla yards of the same material. Basically sheer curtain material but I can't really narrow down the description for you. I specifically bought it for rhubarb but should be good for everything.

 

[madscientist451]

Could you explain this part. Majority here uses airlock from start to end I think.

This is drifting , but here goes anyway....
I still haven't seen a logical explanation why you wouldn't use an airlock.
Just because some winemakers do open fermentations doesn't mean there is any benefit to using that method for cider.
When I make red wine I use a bucket and during the first part of the fermentation the grapes have to be punched down a few times a day, so that's basically an open fermentation. I just leave the lid laying on the bucket, its not snapped on.
But with white wine, Its pressed before fermentation starts and I use a carboy/airlock.
I thought the "blanket of CO2" myth has been debunked here before, so I won't get into that.
I do at least one wild ferment cider every season and even then I use a carboy/airlock. I want to use the yeast that naturally occurs in the apples, and keep out (as much as possible) the many yeast varieties I have in my house from brewing.

 

[MtnGoatJoe]

I use these mesh bags: Mesh Bag for Fruit Press, 14.5 x 20 inch

 

[Tim P]

Apples this year in YXE were pretty good and there was enough for a second smaller pressing! This time I got 13ish gallons and the brix is 15.
I was thinking to up the ABV and just happened to find a corny keg of unopened Schreppes ginger ale!
Whats your guys thoughts on adding a gallon to each 4 of juice?
Any comments or ideas are greatly appreciated!!!! (Even the stupid ones )