I have my first dumper!!

[jvcjbl]

I brewed two weekends ago. I brewed BeeCave Haus Pale Ale. This is/was the second brew on my all new all grain equipment and as a result I under estimated the dead spaces and was a little wonky on the boil off. I ended up with ~4.75 gallons when I shoot for ~5.5 gallons. I hit 1.053 OG and figured "what the hell" I can add some water. I poured in the difference with some non-sanitized R/O water (figured it was clean (maybe it was, maybe it wasn't)). I neglected to take an updated gravity reading as I was from drinking all day and brewing while drinking. I couldn't get the wort chilled bellow 90'f so I put the wort in my carboy and placed it in my fermentation chamber to get it to fermentation temps before pitching. Two days later I was at the 68'f (recommended) and opened the chamber. To my surprise it had a layer of krasen and the airlock was bubbling away. I removed the airlock to pitch my rehydrated US-05 (even though the recipe says not to rehydrate) and took a whiff. It smelled like musty, stale, old, beer/ruffage. Ignoring this I pitched the yeast. I checked the gravity 10 days later hoping for a miracle and I was indeed at 1.010 (per recipe) but the smell was there and the sample I pulled tasted EXACTLY as the smell. I gave a taste to SWMBO (4 days later from the initial tasting) and it was still at 1.010, but she damn near spit it out. She said, "This is the most disgusting thing I've tasted in a while". I am wondering what caused this phenomenon as I've done nothing out of the normal EXCEPT adding water. I NEVER EVER EVER add water as I've always hit my original amount. Everything was cleaned with PBW and rinsed and then sanitized with Star-San and not rinsed after sanitizing as per directions (like normal). Ideas? Input? Oh well... after just shy of one year this is my first dumped batch. I pulled the plug on the chamber a few mins ago and will dump once I get some more PBW to clean the carboy again before I brew this weekend.

 

[Zen_Brew]

I gave a taste to SWMBO (4 days later from the initial tasting) and it was still at 1.010, but she damn near spit it out. She said, "This is the most disgusting thing I've tasted in a while".

Well at least you wait a "while" between offering her disgusting tasting things.

It's difficult to say where, but obviously you got some wild yeasts or bacteria in the wort somewhere. It could be from the non sterilized water, or perhaps while you were fighting with it to get it chilled down more wild yeast got in there than normal. Once you saw active fermentation there was really no reason to pitch more yeast. If you had the storage room, you might have let it age a while and see how it turned out. Wild fermented beers can turn out interesting and tasty sometimes

It is important to remember that as home brewers, none of us brew in a sterile environment. There is always a bit of wild yeast and bacteria that get into our wort during transfers, or chilling etc. This is why pitching a large yeast colony as soon as possible after cooling is so important. That way the yeast out compete any nasties you have in there before they have a chance to multiply.

 

[Clementine]

You discovered the difference between sanitized and sterile.

When you boil you are killing just about all living things but not the spores of the nasty things that also eat wort.

When you use star san it kills bacteria but not wild yeast (acid based sanitizers only kill bacteria).

When you added non boiled water it added what ever nasties were in the water.

Normally adding a small amount of non boiled water would not cause a problem as you would have a mixture of wild yeast bacteria and such that would be in the water in relativity low concentrations you then pitch 100 -250 Billion Yeast cells and they take over the brew making it more acidic killing the bacteria in the process and the wild yeast try to reproduce but don't impact flavor greatly as the other guys have the numbers.

Letting it sit for two days let the nutrient rich, sugar rich environment they had a party and probably finished fermenting the beer before your yeast even had a chance.

Living in texas you are always fighting in summer to get the brew cold enough, I live in Hawaii and so I have similar problem. My solution is cool with what you can then make a salt ice mix in a big bucket and sit the fermenter in there my cools from 80s to 60s in about 2hrs so I can pitch.

I also read an article about Aussie brewers putting the whole wort, while still almost boiling into a cube that was almost the same size as the wort (very little head space) and allow it to cool over night then pitching in the morning and transfer to a fermenter. This way the cube container is sanitized by the hot wort and with little head space and no added water there is very limited stray bugs hence less chance of an infection.

Clem

 

[Celticway]

You discovered the difference between sanitized and sterile.

When you boil you are killing just about all living things but not the spores of the nasty things that also eat wort.

When you use star san it kills bacteria but not wild yeast (acid based sanitizers only kill bacteria).

When you added non boiled water it added what ever nasties were in the water.

Normally adding a small amount of non boiled water would not cause a problem as you would have a mixture of wild yeast bacteria and such that would be in the water in relativity low concentrations you then pitch 100 -250 Billion Yeast cells and they take over the brew making it more acidic killing the bacteria in the process and the wild yeast try to reproduce but don't impact flavor greatly as the other guys have the numbers.

Letting it sit for two days let the nutrient rich, sugar rich environment they had a party and probably finished fermenting the beer before your yeast even had a chance.

Living in texas you are always fighting in summer to get the brew cold enough, I live in Hawaii and so I have similar problem. My solution is cool with what you can then make a salt ice mix in a big bucket and sit the fermenter in there my cools from 80s to 60s in about 2hrs so I can pitch.

I also read an article about Aussie brewers putting the whole wort, while still almost boiling into a cube that was almost the same size as the wort (very little head space) and allow it to cool over night then pitching in the morning and transfer to a fermenter. This way the cube container is sanitized by the hot wort and with little head space and no added water there is very limited stray bugs hence less chance of an infection.

Clem

A couple of things, Star San does indeed kill wild yeast. That is one of the reasons to use it. Another thing just to add , or ask I guess is the Aussie method you speak of; there is no cold break there, or am I missing something?

 

[Clementine]

A couple of things, Star San does indeed kill wild yeast. That is one of the reasons to use it. Another thing just to add , or ask I guess is the Aussie method you speak of; there is no cold break there, or am I missing something?

That is a statement based on talking to people, acid washing info (they use ph approx 2) where a guy was using star san + something to make it more acidic and a post where I guy got yeast from a blow off that was in star san, not experience so take it or leave it I can't give you facts or personal proof.

I saw a discussion on it I was mentioning it as something for the OP to research, if he wanted to leave his brew sit for a while before pitching, I have not tried this one. I think they get their cold break to precipitate out by placing it in the fermentation chamber or fridge or something (obviously with the long time taken to cool it their cold break will suffer) then some racked off this into a fermentation vessel, oxygenated and pitched.

As I use a CFC on my brews I put the wort into a holding vessel in the ice bucket before racking to a fermentation vessel as this allows my cold break that comes out of solution in the CFC to settle and then be left behind. Sort of the same process just their chilling takes a little longer.

Clem

 

[ACbrewer]

On one of the threads here in the past month they had a link to a test of homebrews. The test basically was "what other 'crobes are in the homebrew" and yes every single one of the 20+ tested had some levels of detectable non brews yeast life growing in them.
I'm with Clementine, you probably waited to long before pitching the yeast. Look up on wiki 'tyndalization' it is basically a pre autoclave method of steralizing by boiling for x time 3 days in a row to get all the spores.

Lets face it, we get good beers because we over power 'the locals' fast and furious with brewers yeast and then carb and cap it before much else can go on.

 

[Celticway]

On one of the threads here in the past month they had a link to a test of homebrews. The test basically was "what other 'crobes are in the homebrew" and yes every single one of the 20+ tested had some levels of detectable non brews yeast life growing in them.
I'm with Clementine, you probably waited to long before pitching the yeast. Look up on wiki 'tyndalization' it is basically a pre autoclave method of steralizing by boiling for x time 3 days in a row to get all the spores.

Lets face it, we get good beers because we over power 'the locals' fast and furious with brewers yeast and then carb and cap it before much else can go on.

I agree, but they form after or somewhere in between sanitizing your equipment and fermenting. If you sanitize your vessel properly, the surface should not have any wild yeast on it. Now some get picked up here or there, we know that.

 

[Clementine]

Lets face it, we get good beers because we over power 'the locals' fast and furious with brewers yeast and then carb and cap it before much else can go on.

Sounds like you surf in Hawaii

 

[jvcjbl]

I normally pitch the yeast within ~48 hours. I don't know what has changed other than the drunken mistake of added non-boiled R/O water. I've done 30 + batches this way and NEVER had one spoil. I guess the water is the kicker. Since I use the smaller son of a fermentation chamber I am gun shy about pitching the yeast < or ~80'f like some do and then putting into the chamber and cooling, because it takes ~24 hours to get to the dialed in temp. Normally I can get the wort to ~70 when it is not 105'F+ outside by using just my IC and sink water. What are some peoples methods by using this type of fermentation chamber (2L frozen soda water bottles) and pitching temperatures? Maybe I'm due for a "change of style".

 

[samc]

Maybe I'm due for a "change of style".

Yeah, like not being when brewing. That helps a lot.

 

[Zen_Brew]

There are many creative options for chilling in a hot environment. Some people use a second copper chiller as a pre-chiller. The wort goes through both chillers connected in series. The first one sets in a tub or bin of water. Once the temp gets below 100 you drop a bag of ice in the bin with the first chiller and it drops the temp of the water running through the chiller in your wort.

For a cheaper option you can put the beer in your fermentor, then drop the fermentor into a cooler, or bath tub, or just big plastic bin and drop in ice or frozen 2 liter bottles to continue to cool.

Many people get away with waiting to pitch their yeast, but ideally you shouldn't wait more than several hours. The result of waiting too long is sometimes what you just experienced.

 

[Clementine]

105deg and 5 gallons of cooking wort that will make a man drink. I think you are right it was a combination of factors with the water being the kicker. However I do think your pushing the bounds of what is safe with waiting so long before pitching.
Clem

 

[jvcjbl]

Yeah, like not being when brewing. That helps a lot.

Not going to happen. It takes away from the experience. I'm going to try to get the wort cooled faster this time around, as maintaining temps isn't an issue.

 

[ACbrewer]

I normally pitch the yeast within ~48 hours. I don't know what has changed other than the drunken mistake of added non-boiled R/O water. I've done 30 + batches this way and NEVER had one spoil. I guess the water is the kicker. Since I use the smaller son of a fermentation chamber I am gun shy about pitching the yeast < or ~80'f like some do and then putting into the chamber and cooling, because it takes ~24 hours to get to the dialed in temp. Normally I can get the wort to ~70 when it is not 105'F+ outside by using just my IC and sink water. What are some peoples methods by using this type of fermentation chamber (2L frozen soda water bottles) and pitching temperatures? Maybe I'm due for a "change of style".

Could be the R/O as your source of infection. I don't like saying a person's water is contaminated - think of the implications for using it for drinking. Although if you had a particular hose or something you used to get the water into your fermentor - is that sanatized?

As for sanitized = no bacteria, it doesn't, sanitized means 99.999% are killed, sounds pretty good, because only .001% survive, but out of a potential billions, that makes like several 1000's that survive the sanitation. Sterile means everything is dead (I think, it could also mean just more 9's in that %). Anyhow, somewhere you had some, and they got you. If the water is the only thing different, then my suggestion is next time boil 1 gallon of water+priming sugar instead of the usual 2 cups.

Another option is to boil water, put in a container, and then freeze the water with container (that has been steam sanitized). When you brew, break the ice into the wort at the very end of your chill - or you could just put it in the fridge and pour it in. The point here is you can sanitize (possibly sterilize) the water, and sanitize the container it goes in and use that to cool down. Of course this assumes you aren't doing a full boil, or need to make up water from an agressive boil off. Otherwise the freeze water and sanitize bottle to put into ~100F wort might make more sense.

 

[ACbrewer]

Sounds like you surf in Hawaii

I wish - well I mean I wish I surfed, not that I kicked the locals off the beach. Although my expericence has been that the locals usually have one really good not known location for things like surfing.

 

[Clementine]

I wish - well I mean I wish I surfed, not that I kicked the locals off the beach. Although my expericence has been that the locals usually have one really good not known location for things like surfing.

Not on Oahu there is just too many people and not enough breaks but I only have 28 days and counting left here so I have to make the most of it. Found out my wife just got a job in Fredrick MA so I will join the I wish category too.

 

[Hokie_Brewer]

So funny i just found this post. The EXACT same thing happened to me about 2 months ago, except i pitched probably 8 hours after putting it in the fermentation chamber. Pitched yeast and no really active fermentation ever happened, but 2 weeks later it was at 1.012. Tastes terrible, i'm going to dump mine this weekend probably.

 

[carrolte]

I would say to add top off water at the same time you add yeast. That is if you can ever bring yourself to add top off water again.

 

[jvcjbl]

I would say to add top off water at the same time you add yeast. That is if you can ever bring yourself to add top off water again.

Never again. I honestly should have just stayed at the lower amount of wort and might have been fine. Oh well. Thank god it is an all grain recipe so it was only about $21 gone.

 

[EricCSU]

I live in Austin, so I share your pain with brewing when it is hot out. Here is what I do:

1. Get everything prepped before your brewday. Everything.

2. I wake up at 0400 and dough-in by 0500. With a mash out and single batch sparge, I am boiling by 0645. Even when I do two batches in a brewday, I am knocking out on batch number 2 by 1000. Even when it is 105 out, I am cleaned up before noon.

3. I always make a starter with the appropriate amount of yeast. Every batch you brew will be "dirty" to some extent. The best way to fight that is to overwhelm the bad guys with lots of active yeast that is ready to go. I also always pitch within 6 hours for the same reason.

4. I know this isn't want you want to hear, but I never drink until I am done with cleanup. Yes, I love drinking beer. But it is counterproductive while brewing. When I have drank while brewing, it increases my chances to make a mistake, increases cleanup time, and decreases my motivation to cleanup (especially when it is hot out). I know what it isn't as much "fun", but is it worth it when you have to dump a beer? I would rather be sober for a few hours and make a great batch of beer that I can enjoy for several weeks than drink and waste my time.

Good luck.

Eric

 

[jvcjbl]

I am going to buy a prechiller this weekend and brew possibly a Red Rye IPA. It is the lack of adequate pitching temperatures with in a reasonable time that has been hindering me. I've been lucy the whole time, not good. I am not getting up at 5am to brew, unless I am getting paid to brew, and that is my goal.