How to turn down the heat without turning down the abv?

[6Tap]

Any ideas on how to lower the alcohol taste/ heat in a xxipa without actually lowering the % alcohol in the beer?

Another words, I’m drinking a double ipa at a local brewery that they have listed at 8.5% abv and comparing this with the Homebrew batch which came in at 8.4% abv I brewed a few weeks ago this commercial beer has no alcohol heat or punch compared to my Homebrew.
I’m thinking maybe my hydrometer is way off or maybe their hydrometer is way off or most likely they have found a way to mask or cover up the heat from the alcohol?

Any ideas on how I can tone down or not have as much perceived alcohol in my next ipa without lowering the I ibu’s?

I know for barrel aged imperial stouts people say to cellar them due to the high alcohol however with IPA’s they are supposed to be drank fresh.

Thanks in advance for your response/ help. [emoji482]

 

[Qhrumphf]

More yeast, pure oxygen, lower and/or more stable fermentation temp usually.

 

[Beholder]

Fermentation temperature control is the most influential to avoid stressed yeast throwing off fusels, but as mentioned above, there are additional things you can do to keep yeast happy and healthy.

 

[seatazzz]

Fusels will mostly fade with some time, but then again so will your nice hop aroma and flavor. +1 to temperature control in fermentation, pitching yeast at correct temperature, and pitching plenty of healthy yeast. If you have the means to control temp, and can chill your wort to a few degrees below your optimal fermentation temperature (64-66, so chill down to 60-62), letting it rise naturally to the correct temperature helps the yeast out and should avoid stressing them.

 

[NeoBrew]

In addition to all the above, fermenting at the lower end of your yeasts temperature range typically produces a cleaner fermentation.

 

[mongoose33]

Slight, only slight, tangent here.

There are best practices (with which most experienced brewers would tend to agree) that reduce the chances of your having various problems and off-flavors in beer. Not doing all of them invites issues in the beer. The best thing to do as a brewer is to do all the best practices you can, and those you cannot? Find a way.

Here is a partial list of those things:

Proper mash temps.
Proper water composition.
Proper crush.
Proper oxygenation of wort prior to pitching yeast (except for most dry yeast).
Proper temperature at pitch.
Proper pitch.
Proper fermentation temps, controlled.
Proper packaging, such as to avoid oxidation.

Miss any of those and your beer, at best, starts to drift from what the recipe was designed to do, and at worst, creates off-flavors that may render it undrinkable.

What I believe every brewer should do--provided their goal is the best beer they can produce, and not something that's just alcoholic swill--is aim for a perfect brew day. Control everything you can, to the greatest degree you can, and you eliminate most of the things that can cause your beer to go belly up.

You can't, of course, do a "perfect" brew day--nobody can--but the goal is approach that, as much as you can. When brewers take short cuts, they tend to add up. Avoid the short cuts unless certain they don't matter.

This is why, IMO, process trumps recipe. If you have the proper processes, almost any decent recipe will turn out fine. But no recipe can save a screwed-up process.

******

I attended an off-flavor workshop a couple years ago, one where they put off-flavors in the beer and have us identify them.

I was struck by one thing: the focus was on fixing the process producing a bad beer, when I thought there was a better approach generally: just do things the right way from the get-go, and there are no off-flavors to fix.

My process was already focused on brewing that way, but I felt that workshop confirmed what I believed: there are a lot of brewers out there just taking a swing at this, without really thinking hard about what the process should be.

Have a solid process and you don't have off-flavors to fix.

My 2 cents.

 

[6Tap]

Thanks to all for your input!

Next time I brew my xxipa I plan to make the following changes to lower the heat without lowering abv:

Adjust my grain crush. Seemed a little too fine that time.

Pitch more yeast and just below the recommended temp range and let it rise to the lower recommend temp range.

In addition to adding oxygen during wort transfer to the fermenter, I may give it a small shot of pure oxygen 24 hours after pitching the yeast. I recall a phone conversation I had with someone at Imperial Yeast who recommend doing this for a Barleywine I brewed last year.

Pay more attention to my brew process and temp control.

Thanks again for all your input, looking forward to using your tips on my next xxipa batch. [emoji482]

 

[NeoBrew]

You might consider the second oxygenation at 6 to 12 hours rather than 24. It may help lessen the chances of oxidization. If the ferment is too far along you may be oxidizing you’re beer rather than boosting your yeast.

 

[mongoose33]

Thanks to all for your input!

Next time I brew my xxipa I plan to make the following changes to lower the heat without lowering abv:

Adjust my grain crush. Seemed a little too fine that time.

Pitch more yeast and just below the recommended temp range and let it rise to the lower recommend temp range.

In addition to adding oxygen during wort transfer to the fermenter, I may give it a small shot of pure oxygen 24 hours after pitching the yeast. I recall a phone conversation I had with someone at Imperial Yeast who recommend doing this for a Barleywine I brewed last year.

Pay more attention to my brew process and temp control.

Thanks again for all your input, looking forward to using your tips on my next xxipa batch. [emoji482]

The advice for a second oxygenation for the barleywine was due to it being a high gravity beer, to allow the yeast to have a second shot at the sugar. Most more normal beers don't need that, and as @NeoBrew notes, you may simply accomplish little other than oxidizing your beer.

Be careful of "tweaks." They remind me of golfers looking for tips on how to swing better. Nah, ain't gonna happen.

Figure out what a solid process is, right from the start, and why it's solid, and then adhere to the requirements of that process. I think that's what you're headed for, and that's a very, very good approach.

 

[mashpaddled]

Agree with others here that what you describe sounds like fermentation defects and improving your fermentation process will undoubtedly improve these issues. You've received a lot of good suggestions already and one I either missed or has not been raised is to make sure yeast are given proper nutrients. If you brew with distilled/RO/filtered water and do not put back any minerals you may be depriving your yeast of needed nutrients. Additionally on those big beers consider adding yeast nutrient to add in what is not present in the grain or water.

 

[rburrelli]

Slight, only slight, tangent here.

There are best practices (with which most experienced brewers would tend to agree) that reduce the chances of your having various problems and off-flavors in beer. Not doing all of them invites issues in the beer. The best thing to do as a brewer is to do all the best practices you can, and those you cannot? Find a way.

Here is a partial list of those things:

Proper mash temps.
Proper water composition.
Proper crush.
Proper oxygenation of wort prior to pitching yeast (except for most dry yeast).
Proper temperature at pitch.
Proper pitch.
Proper fermentation temps, controlled.
Proper packaging, such as to avoid oxidation.

Miss any of those and your beer, at best, starts to drift from what the recipe was designed to do, and at worst, creates off-flavors that may render it undrinkable.

What I believe every brewer should do--provided their goal is the best beer they can produce, and not something that's just alcoholic swill--is aim for a perfect brew day. Control everything you can, to the greatest degree you can, and you eliminate most of the things that can cause your beer to go belly up.

You can't, of course, do a "perfect" brew day--nobody can--but the goal is approach that, as much as you can. When brewers take short cuts, they tend to add up. Avoid the short cuts unless certain they don't matter.

This is why, IMO, process trumps recipe. If you have the proper processes, almost any decent recipe will turn out fine. But no recipe can save a screwed-up process.

******

I attended an off-flavor workshop a couple years ago, one where they put off-flavors in the beer and have us identify them.

I was struck by one thing: the focus was on fixing the process producing a bad beer, when I thought there was a better approach generally: just do things the right way from the get-go, and there are no off-flavors to fix.

My process was already focused on brewing that way, but I felt that workshop confirmed what I believed: there are a lot of brewers out there just taking a swing at this, without really thinking hard about what the process should be.

Have a solid process and you don't have off-flavors to fix.

My 2 cents.

One of the best “tangents” I have ever read.
Good process is what makes good beer better beer.

 

[PersonalBrewer]

...Adjust my grain crush. Seemed a little too fine that time......

I do BIAB. I'm not aware of any problems that come from crushing grain too fine, at least with BIAB.

Might contribute to a stuck sparge, but since I don't sparge don't know.

 

[CascadesBrewer]

Pay more attention to my brew process and temp control.

Do you have a way to control ferm temps? I have a chamber now, but before that I fermented on my cool lower level. It worked well for most beer, but for big beers I was sure to put the fermenter in a water bath so help control temp changes. I would throw in some ice if needed. Bigger beers can put out a lot of heat during active fermentation. Once fermentation starts to slow (usually by day 4) the temp control is not as critical.

 

[6Tap]

Do you have a way to control ferm temps? I have a chamber now, but before that I fermented on my cool lower level. It worked well for most beer, but for big beers I was sure to put the fermenter in a water bath so help control temp changes. I would throw in some ice if needed. Bigger beers can put out a lot of heat during active fermentation. Once fermentation starts to slow (usually by day 4) the temp control is not as critical.

Thanks for the tip.

Yep, I use a jacketed fermenter with glycol so I can control temps within a few degrees.

So far I’m thinking the heat is due to:

Pitching my yeast at 67 degrees F. The yeast I used works best between 60-68 so next time I will pitch at 58 degrees and let it rise to 64 degrees where I will hold it for 4-6 days then let it rise to 68 on the last few days of fermentation.

Also, I have found that after 3 weeks the heat has decreased some and the hop flavor still remains strong. [emoji482]

 

[Calder]

Good process is always a benefit, but your issue is fermentation temps. Fusel alcohol (alcohol taste) is usually caused by fermenting at too high a temperature. It is not just the room temperature, it is the temperature of the yeast. Active fermentation can raise the temperature of the wort/beer by 10 F above room temp. Also, if you pitch while the wort is at a high temperature (not cooled to room temp) you are just making the situation worse.

You need to try and cool the wort down to recommended fermentation temps before pitching, to the lower end if you can. If you are struggling to get down the final 10 or 20 degrees, you could freeze sanitized water to add at the end of cooling. A pint or 2 will make a big difference.

Once you pitch the yeast you need to maintain a low temperature. I have a cheap 20 gallon bucket (from Walmart) that I put my fermenter in. After I put the fermenter in the bucket I add 5+ gallons of cold water. The water in the bucket acts as a heat sink for the beer and pulls heat from it and keeps the beer temp close to room temp.

I also recommend getting a stick-on temp strip for your fermenter. I have one on all my fermenters. I place in just below the level of the wort/beer and above where I would add water in my 'cooling bucket', and then cover it with wide tape as the thermometers supposedly don't like water. These strip thermometers tell you a lot about what is going on in the fermenter.

NOTE: I also use my water bucket to heat the wort/beer during fermentation. When using Belgian yeasts, I use a fish tank heater to heat the water in the bucket to get the beer temperature up.

 

[Beholder]

I also recommend getting a stick-on temp strip for your fermenter. I have one on all my fermenters. I place in just below the level of the wort/beer and above where I would add water in my 'cooling bucket', and then cover it with wide tape as the thermometers supposedly don't like water. These strip thermometers tell you a lot about what is going on in the fermenter.

NOTE: I also use my water bucket to heat the wort/beer during fermentation. When using Belgian yeasts, I use a fish tank heater to heat the water in the bucket to get the beer temperature up.

OP has a glycol jacketed fermenter, which are typically equipped with inserted thermocouples. Stick-on thermometers and water buckets won’t cut it.

EDIT: this got me thinking, I’ve sometimes faced where the thermocouple is not seated at the tip of the well. If this happened in your case, the reading may have been cycling based on a location close to your jacket and your ferm temps may have gone much higher.

Also, if I don’t have 10 gallons in the fermenter, the well is not immersed - assume you will have checked it, but good to mention just in case.

 

[applescrap]

Is it fusels or adjuncty feel. Adjunct and amount of it could play a role imo. It could be recipe related to some degree. I use golden promise which I think lessens this affect, could be confirmation bias. What hops you use, when you use them, I think plays a secondary role. Mosaic, galaxy, citra etc I think provide frutier less astringency (reaching here) perhaps. Yeast pitched into 70 degree and above wort I think could provide fusels. I think if you made dipa that was mosaic, galaxy, etc, no adjunct, maris otter or golden promise and cold pitched yeast you would have the effect you seek.