How long an Extract Brewer?

[devilssoninlaw]

How long have you been brewing beer using only extract kits? I was wondering how many here are content to brew only with extract kits and not taken the step to go "all grain"?

I've been brewing extracts for a while and have yet to make a batch that was undrinkable. In fact, a vast majority have been great beers and I'm happy to stay where I am but I still look at taking that next step, it's a fun hobby!

 

[Doggfish]

I've been brewing 5 gallon extract batches for a year.
I'm 61 and am going to pull the retirement plug at 66.5. I'm looking forward to brewing as a hobby in my retirement years.

To that end, I've started with a Blichmann Hellfire burner and a Spike 15 Gallon brew kettle. ...My next purchase will probably be a legit Fermenter like the Spike C-10 Conical.

Right now, I'm fine doing extract 5 gallon brews. I'd say that my good to bad ratio is about 75/25, but I still drink that bad 25%...Just don't offer it to friends.

I figure I've got 5 years to learn the all grain brewing thing. I'm going to gear up to brew 10 gallon batches. I'm thinking I'll get the Blichmann top tier set up with Spike Mash tun and Hot water tank.

I'm enjoying the hobby and really like drinking the beer I make.

 

[FloppyKnockers]

I brewed extract exclusively for about a year and a half. Once I did all-grain a whole new world opened up. I still have 2 or 3 beers that I brew extract as they are not quite the same done all-grain.

I went back to all extract when I was in between buying and selling homes and my accommodations was not exactly ideal for my set-up.

 

[Jerome Sidley]

Off and on for over 30 years when I started that's all there was. Now I do both all-grain and extract. I was able to do 4 batches of extract last weekend that would have been hard to do time-wise with all-grain

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

I was wondering how many here are content to brew only with extract kits and not taken the step to go "all grain"?

You mention extract kits: what about people who brew their own recipes using extract and steeping grains? What about those who partial mash (or mini-mash or mini-BIAB)?

You mention "taking the next step": what about people who see mashing as "just soaking grains in a bunch of water" and consider base malts to be "just another ingredient" that requires some additional work?

What if, for many people, the concept of a "next step" doesn't apply to their hobby?

 

[davidabcd]

Taking the question in the spirit it was written, I've been doing extract for almost six years (I'd have to check to be exact). I am so content to keep it that way. In fact, if home brewing were any more time consuming or required more equipment, I wouldn't do it.
I do own a Hellfire burner and a 60q pot but I bought them for frying food outdoors. I might be curious to try using ten or fifteen muslin bags filled with base malt and make a high-ABV Belgian. That would be a one time experiment only.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

With malt extract, I've been brewing small batches (less than 2.5 gal, induction cook plate) for over five years. Started with some kits, but determined it was more fun brew recipes (rather than kits) and less expensive to buy the individual ingredients. Started brewing with base malts about a year later. Started with brewing salts about two years ago after finally finding a simple approach (just brewing salts, highly accurate scale, no spreadsheets). Smaller batch sizes make it practical to move wort and spent grains around without pulleys and pumps. Simplified guidelines for brewing salt additions (is it hoppy? use this. Malty? use that.) for both BIAB and extract+steep allow me to brew without needing to troubleshoot opaque software settings.

I'll continue to brew with dry malt extract. So many good processes for brewing quickly: 15 minute pale ale; BBR "hop sampler"; various "hop steep" (no-boil with pasteurization) processes. With the availability of Pale Ale DME, Munich DME, and Vienna DME , almost all the recipes I brew could be done extract+steep.

 

[kh54s10]

I brewed 4 extract then 4 partial mash kits and recipes before going all grain. The in the middle of winters in Rhode Island I would sometimes do another extract.

I switched to all grain for a couple reasons. It is more interesting to me to make a recipe where I provide all the ingredients. It also costs about 1/2 of what an extract kit would cost. I buy grains at bulk prices also to save a little more. The more I save the more I can brew and also to have $$ for other things.

There are threads about extract recipes not being as good as all grain. I guess some are sensitive to "extract twang" flavors. I have never detected anything like that in my extracts. They may be different but to me they are equally as good.

 

[The_Goldfish]

26 years on the stove top doing a few kits a year. Gearing up now to switch over to BIAB. Should be doing the first batch in a month or so.

 

[derekp83]

I started a little over a decade ago, but just returned to it about a year and half ago after a good 3-4 year hiatus due mostly to major life changes (move for a job, first child, etc). While I've tinkered with the idea of doing a partial mash, I do love the simplicity of extract and specialty grains. It's really something that we can make so many decent beers with the variety of caramel malts that are available, and now that Briess is putting out more and more base malt extracts, it's really negating the necessity of doing partial mash or all grain (unless of course you enjoy the pure process of it, which I can certainly understand).

I do however think it's a good idea to at least read up on the next steps because you might learn a few tricks or techniques that will move your skills forward while still being workable with extract & specialty grains. For example, The Goldfish just mentioned BIAB. I actually use a BIAB bag for steeping my specialty grains, rather than a throw-away muslin bag.

 

[GeneDaniels1963]

I started brewing gruits with DME about 2 years ago. The only "upgrade" I've made is to use steeping grains. I am more than happy with this level of brewing and have no intention of going all grain.

 

[AkTom]

I did 4 extract kits, then bought an all grain kit. I’ve been brewing about 6 years. I’ll have to look into some of the new dme. Sounds like a good idea for shorter brew days. I might even be able to keep my pipeline going...

 

[RM-MN]

I did 4 extract kits, then bought an all grain kit. I’ve been brewing about 6 years. I’ll have to look into some of the new dme. Sounds like a good idea for shorter brew days. I might even be able to keep my pipeline going...

I've done some reading and some experimentation and find that by milling my grains really fine and using BIAB I can do an all grain batch in the same time as an extract batch with steeping grains. It takes about 20 minutes minimum to extract the flavor from steeping grains and 30 is better. That is how long I mash. It takes about 30 minutes of boil to isomerize the hops for bittering so that is how long I boil my all grain batch. The only difference would be the time to heat the water as it can take less water for the extract batch if you do a concentrated boil and top off water.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

It takes about 20 minutes minimum to extract the flavor from steeping grains and 30 is better.

When you steep, do you

1. heat the water to 150*, hold for 30 minutes, remove the grains, then continue to the boil​

or

2. add the grains at flame-on, remove when the water gets to 160F-ish, then continue to a boil​

If the goal is to brew a little faster, at the expense of some additional steeping grains, the 2nd approach will work. (good, fast, cheap: pick two?)

Methods of Modern Homebrewing has another approach (which I haven't tried): steep the grains in hot water in a 'side pot' while heating the water and starting the boil in the first pot. When the steep is finished, add it to the main pot.

 

[tellyho]

I went all grain for economics' sake. Now that I've owned the equipment for a while, a brew day costs me around $20 and takes 3ish hours (electric). A little more cleaning than extract, but a win in my book.

 

[JPDosey]

I've been brewing exclusively extracts since 2006...started with a Mr Beer kit..love the hobby

 

[RM-MN]

When you steep, do you

1. heat the water to 150*, hold for 30 minutes, remove the grains, then continue to the boil​

or

2. add the grains at flame-on, remove when the water gets to 160F-ish, then continue to a boil​

If the goal is to brew a little faster, at the expense of some additional steeping grains, the 2nd approach will work. (good, fast, cheap: pick two?)

Methods of Modern Homebrewing has another approach (which I haven't tried): steep the grains in hot water in a 'side pot' while heating the water and starting the boil in the first pot. When the steep is finished, add it to the main pot.

i did method 1 and encourage other extract brewers to do so too. I feel it is good practice and especially good if one plans to *someday* go to all grain as then they would be comfortable with heating to strike temp and not under or over shoot. Any of the 3 methods would work and save a little time.

I hesitate to mention that I sometimes do a 20 minute mash. It works but the grains have to be milled really fine for it to do so. I've tried shorter but then failed to extract the flavors even though the conversion was done earlier. I've read that 90% of the hop oil isomerization happens in 30 minutes and I seem to get plenty of bittering with that but haven't explored a shorter boil. I'd like to see data on just how the isomerization curve might look. Is it linear or a curve. If a curve, what kind of curve?

 

[davidabcd]

Methods of Modern Homebrewing has another approach (which I haven't tried): steep the grains in hot water in a 'side pot' while heating the water and starting the boil in the first pot. When the steep is finished, add it to the main pot.

That's how I do it. Plus a rinse from a third pot. Works fine.

 

[davidabcd]

I've done some reading and some experimentation and find that by milling my grains really fine and using BIAB I can do an all grain batch in the same time as an extract batch with steeping grains.

Aren't there some other factors to be considered when comparing the speed of BIAB and extract w/grain? That you are milling, for one. I think the water volume, needed for BIAB and heating and cooling that would add significant time. Steeping grains don't add time for me since I do them separately.

 

[derekp83]

I've done some reading and some experimentation and find that by milling my grains really fine and using BIAB I can do an all grain batch in the same time as an extract batch with steeping grains. It takes about 20 minutes minimum to extract the flavor from steeping grains and 30 is better. That is how long I mash. It takes about 30 minutes of boil to isomerize the hops for bittering so that is how long I boil my all grain batch. The only difference would be the time to heat the water as it can take less water for the extract batch if you do a concentrated boil and top off water.

This may be true, but it overlooks the risk of DMS. I have often read most malts need at least 45 mins of boil time to mitigate the majority of DMS. Otherwise, I think many brewers would cut corners for all grain of partial mash.

 

[RM-MN]

Aren't there some other factors to be considered when comparing the speed of BIAB and extract w/grain? That you are milling, for one. I think the water volume, needed for BIAB and heating and cooling that would add significant time. Steeping grains don't add time for me since I do them separately.

I usually start milling the grains while the pot fills with water and finish up the job while the water heats. I do the milling with the hand crank. Yes it takes time for the water to heat and to cool the wort but depending on the heat source and the method of cooling it may not be significantly different.

This may be true, but it overlooks the risk of DMS. I have often read most malts need at least 45 mins of boil time to mitigate the majority of DMS. Otherwise, I think many brewers would cut corners for all grain of partial mash.

It seems that a lot of our homebrewing information comes from bigger breweries. With large batches the length of time needed is longer. I have never tasted DMS and others who do short boils don't report it either. There is some information that SMM keeps converting to DMS as the wort cools but even with my slower cooling (sometimes no-chill) I still don't get the flavor.

 

[Immocles]

I've only been brewing about a year, but I did about 5 months of extract brewing twice a month or so before I decided to buy a bag for my kettle and some grains to give mashing a try. Love it, but it does get long and sometimes difficult to schedule a day for it, so I also have extract on hand for quicker days on occasion. There have been a few recipes that I actually preferred my extract version over my all grain attempt.

 

[davidabcd]

@RM-MN
Thanks.

 

[Mascrappo]

I like the side pot grain bag idea, never crossed my mind! All electric here so that my cut some time, thanks! Learn something every day

 

[Transamguy77]

I did extract for a year maybe a bit longer before moving to AG, I have done a few extract batches when I was moving due to ease.

Cost was the reason I made the move, my first batch was less than half an extract batch. And then after moving to 10 gallon batches it would be a fortune to make 10 gallons.

 

[downzero]

I made quite a few extract brews before I learned about BIAB. Now I'm not sure why extract even exists anymore. The only thing that really changed about my setup was I use a larger pot now. Had I known about BIAB, I would have bought a larger pot to begin with.

 

[derekp83]

I usually start milling the grains while the pot fills with water and finish up the job while the water heats. I do the milling with the hand crank. Yes it takes time for the water to heat and to cool the wort but depending on the heat source and the method of cooling it may not be significantly different.



It seems that a lot of our homebrewing information comes from bigger breweries. With large batches the length of time needed is longer. I have never tasted DMS and others who do short boils don't report it either. There is some information that SMM keeps converting to DMS as the wort cools but even with my slower cooling (sometimes no-chill) I still don't get the flavor.

Glad to hear it! In that case, I guess it's worth a shot. I've even considered having two pots going at once: one for steeping or mashing, and another that's got the boil rolling with hops and some extract.

 

[Aggie10]

Did Coopers extract kits (kit + kilo type) back in early 90s when in college...cheap beer, definitely most batches had serious homebrew twang etc., but it did the job.

Started again few years ago, with extract kits again but more like toucan with minor sugar additions. Boiled LME as per traditional advice etc. Most batches were pretty sweet and caramel intense.

Then shortly thereafter moved to unhopped Briess LME in golden light or amber and added pellet hops. And added LME after flameout. This was a significant improvement in beers, but still some hints of being too malt dominant for my liking.

Now I'm using Briess Pilsen LME with specialty grains and pellet hops. No boil, steep grains, bring to boil, flameout, hopstand all hops, add LME and good to go...and getting tasty beers that are better balanced. Can do two 23L batches in about an hour, which is key for me as I have little available time and a healthy beer thirst.

Been trying to find an even shorter method, but it seems that may not exist without negative quality impacts.

 

[deadwolfbones]

Did Coopers extract kits (kit + kilo type) back in early 90s when in college...cheap beer, definitely most batches had serious homebrew twang etc., but it did the job.

Started again few years ago, with extract kits again but more like toucan with minor sugar additions. Boiled LME as per traditional advice etc. Most batches were pretty sweet and caramel intense.

Then shortly thereafter moved to unhopped Briess LME in golden light or amber and added pellet hops. And added LME after flameout. This was a significant improvement in beers, but still some hints of being too malt dominant for my liking.

Now I'm using Briess Pilsen LME with specialty grains and pellet hops. No boil, steep grains, bring to boil, flameout, hopstand all hops, add LME and good to go...and getting tasty beers that are better balanced. Can do two 23L batches in about an hour, which is key for me as I have little available time and a healthy beer thirst.

Been trying to find an even shorter method, but it seems that may not exist without negative quality impacts.

DME produces better balanced beers than LME, in my experience. Also easier to work with.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

Been trying to find an even shorter method

Let's move the discussion on this topic back here [link].

 

[Katman]

I have been brewing 5gal extract batches pretty much every week this year and everyone loves the beer I make. I am not sure that I really want to move to AG brewing but last week I got a new ten gal kettle and decided to get a BIAB bag as well since everyone here seems to think AG beer taste better. So I am getting ready to try my first AG batch later today. Its a brown ale that I have done the extract version of about 6 times and comes out very consistent every time. I have some of the extract version put up and plan to use it to compare the two different methods. Wish me luck =^.^=

 

[kartracer2]

Hi All,
First off I haven't made beer for many years but when I did I used Boxed kits at first. When I found a style/type i liked I would would emulate it with just separate ingredients. I might add I had received 3 ribbons in local competitions this way. (2 thirds, and 1 best of class and show, Yes only extract w/ steeping grains on that one)
I am going get back into it very soon as I have a place that I can brew again. I am looking at a basic equip. kit and a couple boxed kits again as there so many more "clone" kits out there now that just didn't exist back in the day.
Yes I will go back to buying the basic ingredients again as I did before and stick with extract/steeping grains as they satisfy my tastes and ambition.
That's why wish some of the biab/ag people would ease up a bit. I'm sure they have their reasons for doing things the way they do. With that said, so do I, as said above. I feel extract will always have a place in this wonderful and enjoyable hobby unlike say Golf. The best part of this hobby is that you get to enjoy your efforts (beer) rather than buying it.
This isn't a rant but just my humble opinion as I wait for the brown truck to be a Santa's sleigh.
Cheers and brew on!
Oh I should add that I used to use Glass carboys and bleach exclusively and never had a problem.

 

[KevBrewski]

I have been brewing for a year now, all extract brewing. For the first 5 brews I did kits. I am now making my own extract recipes from scratch. Most recently made a delicious NEIPA and Chocolate Stout.

 

[Bamos6928]

I brewed extract kits for a little less than a year before I switched to all grain. I brewed store bought all grain kits for about 2 months before I started brewing my own recipes. I thought almost all the beers I brewed were really good but when I started using my own recipes, that is when the beer got even better. I would recommend working toward that goal. You know what you like more than a kit does!

 

[Saunassa]

Been brewing almost two years, first year was extract with steeping grains, and biab since. There is the 15 minute pale ale that's uses extract and steeping grains that I will continue to brew every winter. Love the flavor and can make a 3 gallon batch on kitchen stove during the winter when it is colder then 0f (-17c) outside.

 

[effeffe]

I brewed four batches with hopped extract, then six with malt extract and steeping (full boil), and then chose to move to BIAB all-grain.

Besides my obsession with the hobby, I was also not very happy with malt extract. It is expensive, messy to deal with, hard to get fresh (if using LME), and not much choice is available in my country.

 

[Froyd]

Over 25 brewing extract, with only one moment of weakness when I brewed a 1gal BIAB batch. I lost count of how many brew days I have under my belt, but I'm STILL learning new things all the time and improving my technique and my recipes.

 

[VirginiaHops1]

I brewed 4 batches with extract. First 2 weren't very good, batch #2 was downright terrible. Batches 3 and 4 I treated my water with a campden tablet and they were noticeably better. Batch 4 was actually pretty darn good. Then went to all-grain BIAB and am now 48 batches in

 

[mkopec1]

I did extracts for a few years at first, since this was the late 80s early 90s and all grain brewing seemed like this big mystery filled with all kinds of science stuff and honestly it was intimidating. Mind you this was not something I was doing weekly, maybe once a month if that. Also we did not have the internet filled with info at the time, I set out on my own with just a few books I purchased.Plus the store I got my stuff from only really carried extracts plus steeping grains, yeast, hops, so it kind of lend itself to extract brewing. Plus I was still doing the method of boiling 2 cans of extract in like 2.5 gal of water, then transferring this into a carboy filled with 2.5 gal of clean boiled water that was cooled. So equipment was an issue too. Big game changer for me was getting a 8 gal boil pot and constructing a wart chiller. this was my first game changer that made my beer way better since I could boil the entire batch and cool it within 15 min.

Then a dude at work I met set me straight at just how easy it is. He was still doing step mashing at the time which basically consisted of a cooler that he would set the strike temp to mash in at 120F, then step it up to 148F, then again to ~153F or so with hotter water, then sparge...etc.. It was still intimidating but he set my mind at ease. Then later int he 90s I was reading Brew magazine which had recipes where they would just hold one temp in the mash depending on style, which was a game changer for me, because it made temp management 120% easier. Then batch sparging made things even easier when I learned about that method. Honestly Brew magazine was the thing that set me off on all grain. Because it was the best source of up to date methods and they sort of set the "meta" for the time.

 

[bleme]

I did only extract kits (with steeping grains) for about 2 years, then did only all-grain for about 2 years, then got busy and started throwing in an extract batch (some kits, some not) every once in a while just to keep my kegs full.