How do you get a "malty" APA/IPA ?

[hoppysailor]

I'm interested in brewing some APA's and IPA's with a nice flavorful malt profile but am really not sure how to go about determining a grain bill. I'm thinking that Crystal malts are only a part of the answer but I'm not familiar yet with the flavors of the different grains. What grains can be used to get an interesting malt profile? Are 2-row and pale malt the same thing. We've been using Great Western 2-row as our base malt and our beers have been good but lacking some of the character I find in some of the craft brews that I've had. Thanks.

 

[Brewsmith]

I use the great Western Pale Ale malt for most of my beers. It's a little darker than the GW 2-row. Also, try using some Munich malt in there, maybe up to a pound to add to the malty, melanoidin character. Too much crystal will just hide the maltiness with sweetness.

 

[GreenwoodRover]

This recipe is really nicely balanced.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f69/bms-outer-limits-ipa-87310/

When I want it a little maltier I've been subbing Belgian Aromatic for the honey malt...

You might also want to look to your yeast. I like S-04 for a deeper profile in my "american" styles that usually get S-05, notty, or 1056...

 

[HoppyDaze]

I just brewed a beer that I believe will have this desired profile. But, as a dislaimer I must state that I have not tasted it yet. BUT I am confident it will turn out to be my best beer yet.

This is what I did:

4lbs Vienna
4lbs Marris Otter
2lbs 2-Row
.5 Crystal 15L

Hopped with cascade and willamette
Safale-04

 

[hoppysailor]

I use the great Western Pale Ale malt for most of my beers. It's a little darker than the GW 2-row. Also, try using some Munich malt in there, maybe up to a pound to add to the malty, melanoidin character. Too much crystal will just hide the maltiness with sweetness.

Is there a flavor difference between the Great Western 2-row and the Pale Ale malt?


BTW - This forum and the people on it are the best brewing resource available. You guys (used generically - no offense Yooper) are great!

 

[davesrose]

Is there a flavor difference between the Great Western 2-row and the Pale Ale malt?

All 2-row or 6-row malts are pale malts: it basically means they're malted barley that hasn't been through any extra kilning or anything to make them "dark" or "crystal"...yada yada...specialty grains. Some pale malts are more "modified" to impart varying effeciencies and flavor profiles. I have noticed there are a few stores selling an English "Pale Ale Malt", but I assume it's an English 2-row that might be similar to Maris Otter (don't know about Great Western...maybe their "pale ale malt" is a slightly different variety of 2-row then their particular "2-row").

I agree with the above posters about trying out Maris Otter as a base malt: it is the most popular English pale malt and gives you a more "biscuit" flavor (which is something I equate to "malty" vs overly sweet).

 

[Brewsmith]

Is there a flavor difference between the Great Western 2-row and the Pale Ale malt?

It is a little darker than the 2-row, like a 3º L instead of 1.8-2º L

Let me grab a few grains of each because I have them both...

2-row - dry biscuit/bread with a little sweetness. A little grainy

Pale Ale - A little more toasty/nutty and less sweet. More fuller malt flavor, less grainy.

Now this is in grain form. I have yet to do a side-by-side single malt beer comparison, but I'm pretty confident that will translate into the finished beer.

 

[z987k]

Try some better "rounded" base malts as I call them. Basic 2 row is really one dimensional, although I think it can work well in American Ales.

Marris Otter, Pale Malt, Golden Promise, Vienna and Munich all come to mind as a base malt that will add a bit more complexity and maltyness to your beer.

For an American IPA, maybe a mixture of these and 2-row would be in order if you don't want to spend what the foreign malts cost. Although I bet if you went with that GW pale malt it wouldn't be too much more. Pale malt is usually a touch darker than basic 2-row.. it's not necessarily English just like Munich doesn't only come from Wyermann(Germany)... although sometimes it may matter.

Stay light on the caramel malts or you will just get sweet not malty as said before. Aromatic, Biscuit, vienna,, munich, Victory or melanoidin malt might be some malts to go in the grain bill not as a base grain. Also if you can just look into some of the offerings by Wyermann and Thomas Faucett. I think they have a few interesting malts that people don't know about or use much like Victory, Brown malt, coffee malt, honey malt(gambrinus I think), golden naked oats(only oat malt I know of) and then I know Wyermann has many colors of munich and vienna.
Personally I overlook the caramel malts by Wyermann because I those are just proprietary names for caramel/crystal10-120.. and anything from them is coming from overseas and costs a bunch more.

 

[hoppysailor]

Thank you everyone for your thoughtful replies. They are very much appreciated. As an aside, my brother in law stopped by last night and we did a little sampling of the last of our first round brews and he gave great reviews. He has been thinking about brewing for some time and I think I convinced him to join the "all grain" fold.

 

[mithion]

I think the generic american two row found in many local homebrew stores is more suited to brew light lagers. That's what I use to use for my ale, and then I discovered that my LHBS had english "pale malt". I've tried to use that as my base malt instead of the generic 2-row, and call me crazy but my ales have been turning out so much better. The pale malt looks a tad bit darker but just gives a much fuller flavor.

 

[hoppysailor]

Thanks again everyone. I just called my LHBS and they stock 50# bags of the Great Western Pale Malt so I'll be picking that up this evening and giving it a try. We managed to drain the pipeline so will be doing 3 more batches in the next week or so.

 

[ChemE]

When I read the OP but before reading any of the replies the first thing that popped into my head was:

80% Marris Otter
10% Munich
5% Biscuit (I love biscuit malt)
5% Crystal <60 (I like 40 personally)

 

[Yooper]

I use the great Western Pale Ale malt for most of my beers. It's a little darker than the GW 2-row. Also, try using some Munich malt in there, maybe up to a pound to add to the malty, melanoidin character. Too much crystal will just hide the maltiness with sweetness.

I agree with adding Munich malt.

I make a House Pale Ale that Vienna malt, Munich malt, and and Maris otter for the base. It's malty, and very balanced. Also, I've been practicing with "layering" the crystal malts. I think BobNQ (I can't remember his ID, but you know who I mean, I'm sure!) is the one that described that. Instead of a pound of crystal 60, you use a 1/2 pound of 20, and 1/2 pound of 60, for example. That way, you get some of the benefits of the caramel malt, but not much of the cloying sweetness that can come from a too-heavy use of a crystal malt.

Check out my house pale ale recipe in my recipe drop down to see the way I did that.

 

[hoppysailor]

I agree with adding Munich malt.

I make a House Pale Ale that Vienna malt, Munich malt, and and Maris otter for the base. It's malty, and very balanced. Also, I've been practicing with "layering" the crystal malts. I think BobNQ (I can't remember his ID, but you know who I mean, I'm sure!) is the one that described that. Instead of a pound of crystal 60, you use a 1/2 pound of 20, and 1/2 pound of 60, for example. That way, you get some of the benefits of the caramel malt, but not much of the cloying sweetness that can come from a too-heavy use of a crystal malt.

Check out my house pale ale recipe in my recipe drop down to see the way I did that.

Thanks for the recipe. It sounds like it accomplishes what I'm after. I'll put it on the list.

 

[philrose]

I vote victory.

Stuff is like malt magic.

 

[z987k]

I agree with adding Munich malt.

I make a House Pale Ale that Vienna malt, Munich malt, and and Maris otter for the base. It's malty, and very balanced. Also, I've been practicing with "layering" the crystal malts. I think BobNQ (I can't remember his ID, but you know who I mean, I'm sure!) is the one that described that. Instead of a pound of crystal 60, you use a 1/2 pound of 20, and 1/2 pound of 60, for example. That way, you get some of the benefits of the caramel malt, but not much of the cloying sweetness that can come from a too-heavy use of a crystal malt.

Check out my house pale ale recipe in my recipe drop down to see the way I did that.

+1 I would always suggest 'layering' the crystal malts, one is usually not enough depth and will add too much sweetness if a lot is used.

 

[ChemE]

I vote victory.

Stuff is like malt magic.

+1 (Victory = Biscuit)

 

[Brewsmith]

For an American IPA, maybe a mixture of these and 2-row would be in order if you don't want to spend what the foreign malts cost. Although I bet if you went with that GW pale malt it wouldn't be too much more.

The Great Western 2-row and Pale Ale cost me the same, and I keep both on hand.

When I read the OP but before reading any of the replies the first thing that popped into my head was:

80% Marris Otter
10% Munich
5% Biscuit (I love biscuit malt)
5% Crystal <60 (I like 40 personally)

Not too far off from my Pale Ale recipe, American base malt instead of British, and Victory instead of Biscuit but...

90.0% 9.00 lbs. Pale Malt Great Western 3L
5.0% 0.50 lbs. Munich Malt(light) 10L
2.5% 0.25 lbs. Crystal 35L 35L
2.5% 0.25 lbs. Victory Malt 25L