How can i improve my beer?

[luizffgarcia]

Hey guys, i have brewed 14 batches so far and still have not produced very good beer, the good news is i am brewing 1 gallon batches so i am not stuck with liters and liters of not so good beer.

I was hoping you guys can help me improve my process, i am having a hard time figuring out what can i still change to achieve better results.

I only brew IPAs and my biggest problem is lack of aroma, seems like my dry hopping does not exist at all, and i also do a hopstand every time. Second problem is the taste is slightly off, i am trying clones and never get the expected results. But lets get to the details.

I am BIABing, my efficiency is 85%, i mill the grains really fine with a corona mill and i always use spring water.

Sanitizing:
I use Star San and everything in touch with the beer from before the mash until sealing the fermenter is sterilized, i sterilize the pot before the mash, the bag, the spoon, thermometer, pot lid, literally EVERYTHING.

Yeast Starter:
I am always using WLP001, i create a 1 liter starter and then i divide the resulting contents in 3 vials. The idea is to use one vial per 1 gallon batch.

Mashing:
60 minutes at 65c to 67c;
I mash 5 liters in one pot and then dunk sparge 2 more liters because i have a pot size limitation. I still nail the OG every time so i guess this is working OK;

Boil:
I am trying a 60 minute boil recipe, i boil without the lid and i get a strong rolling boil no problem. At flameout i add the 0 minutes hops, put the lid on and leave it resting for a 30 minutes hopstand.

Cooling:
After the hopstand is completed, i fill my kitchen sink with ice and water and cool the wort to 23c, this usually takes around 35 to 40 minutes.

Pitching:
After the wort is cooled i transfer it to the fermenter, i use a strainer to aerate and filter the trub out, and pitch the yeast vial which i removed from the fridge around 3 hours before.

Fermentation:
I leave the fermenter in a dark closet, the temperature is 18.5c to 20c for the first 2 weeks and then 21c during a 5 day dry hop. My FG is always around 1009 / 1010.

Dry Hop:
I am following the recipe for the dry hop, its about 8g (0.3oz) of hops for 1 gallon. In my last two batches which are still fermenting i tried doubling that to 16g (0.6oz) because of the lack of aroma.

Priming and bottling:
After sanitizing all bottles and auto siphon, i boil 2 tablespoons of corn sugar in one cup of water for ten minutes, cool it, move it to a pot, carefully transfer the beer from the fermenter to the priming pot avoiding aerating and bottle. Never had a problem with the carbonation levels.

Bottle conditioning:
I start tasting my beer after two weeks carbonating in the closet at 23c, one every weekend, i usually leave the beer in the fridge for two days.

I am going to post one of the recipes i used in the next post.

 

[luizffgarcia]

Racer 5 clone
(Bear Republic Brewing Co.)
(5 gallons/19 L, all-grain)
OG = 1.071 FG = 1.015
IBU = 60 SRM = 10 ABV = 7.2%

Ingredients
11.25 lbs. (5.1 kg) 2-row pale malt
1.66 lbs. (0.75 kg) wheat malt
0.625 lbs. (0.28 kg) crystal malt (15 °L)
0.42 lbs. (0.19 kg) dextrose (corn sugar)
0.21 lbs. (95 g) CaraPils malt
6.1 AAU Chinook hops (90 mins)
(0.51 oz./14 g of 12% alpha acids)
8.7 AAU Cascade hops (60 mins)
(1.74 oz./49 g of 5.0% alpha acids)
0.3 oz. Centennial hops (dry hop)
0.3 oz. Amarillo hops (dry hop)
0.2 oz. Cascade hops (dry hop)
0.2 oz. Tomahawk hops (dry hop)

This recipe is for a 5 gallon batch, i just divide everything for 5

 

[Northbank]

What kind of water are you doing this with? .... seems like the only thing missing from your list.

 

[luizffgarcia]

What kind of water are you doing this with? .... seems like the only thing missing from your list.

Thanks for remembering that, i edited the post, in the first 3 batches i used tap water but since then i have moved to spring water.

 

[lolcats]

Dry Hop:
I am following the recipe for the dry hop, its about 8g (0.3oz) of hops for 1 gallon.

You could easily triple your dry hop addition for more flavor/aroma.

Also, how long do you dry hop for?

 

[atom]

spring water does not mean it's good for brewing. can you get RO water and add your own minerals? Are you pitching at 23? that could be an issue. if you are not getting much aroma...try more hops. 1 oz/gallon is not unheard of.

also... this doesn't have anything to do with you issue, but sanitizing anything preboil is completely unnecessary.

 

[WrQth]

When are you dry hopping? Shouldn't dry hop until the SG is within a few points of the FG or after full fermentation.

 

[kh54s10]

Is that recipe correct for a one gallon batch? I don't have time to enter it in Beersmith. But, 13+ pounds and corn sugar looks like enough for a much larger batch.

I would also think you could up the dry hops, though you say you have already tried this.

BTW there is no need to sanitize anything that will only touch the ingredients before the boil.

 

[kh54s10]

When are you dry hopping? Shouldn't dry hop until the SG is within a few points of the FG or after full fermentation.

If dry hopping before fermentation is done a lot of the aroma will be passed through a bubbling airlock. Probably some of the flavor also.

 

[kev211]

spring water does not mean it's good for brewing. can you get RO water and add your own minerals? Are you pitching at 23? that could be an issue. if you are not getting much aroma...try more hops. 1 oz/gallon is not unheard of.

also... this doesn't have anything to do with you issue, but sanitizing anything preboil is completely unnecessary.

Agree with everything in this post. Water would be something to consider. One of the biggest improvements in my beer came when I started building my water.

And again, not really an issue, but you're just wasting a lot of time, effort, and money/sanitizer when you sanitize everything on the hot side (pre-boil). Not saying that its a bad idea necessarily, but it isnt really needed

As others have stated, I would bump those dry hops up. I would toss in a full oz

 

[TurnipGreen]

You may want to try more aroma hops later in the boil. Longer boiled hitting hops, shorter boil aroma hops, hops stand and dry hopping will all pull different hop goodness. It looks like late aroma hops is the one thing you might be lacking.

And some times just leaving the beer sit a few weeks helps. Most of my pale ales take three weeks in the bottle to lose the green flavors.

 

[luizffgarcia]

You could easily triple your dry hop addition for more flavor/aroma.

I heard Ballast Point's Sculpin has 1oz per gallon for dry hop, if that is the case it would make perfect sense to triple my dry hop addition. I just don't understand why every recipe i try will use around 0.2oz to 0.3oz of hops for the dry hop if that is not enough...

 

[luizffgarcia]

When are you dry hopping? Shouldn't dry hop until the SG is within a few points of the FG or after full fermentation.

I dry hop after two weeks of fermentation, by that time FG should already be stable, i ordered a refractrometer to make sure but it has not arrived yet...

 

[luizffgarcia]

Is that recipe correct for a one gallon batch? I don't have time to enter it in Beersmith. But, 13+ pounds and corn sugar looks like enough for a much larger batch.

I would also think you could up the dry hops, though you say you have already tried this.

BTW there is no need to sanitize anything that will only touch the ingredients before the boil.

The recipe is for 5 gallons, i just divide everything for 5 since i brew 1.

 

[Jaybird]

Racer 5 clone
(Bear Republic Brewing Co.)
(5 gallons/19 L, all-grain)
OG = 1.071 FG = 1.015
IBU = 60 SRM = 10 ABV = 7.2%

Ingredients
11.25 lbs. (5.1 kg) 2-row pale malt
1.66 lbs. (0.75 kg) wheat malt
0.625 lbs. (0.28 kg) crystal malt (15 °L)
0.42 lbs. (0.19 kg) dextrose (corn sugar)
0.21 lbs. (95 g) CaraPils malt
6.1 AAU Chinook hops (90 mins)
(0.51 oz./14 g of 12% alpha acids)
8.7 AAU Cascade hops (60 mins)
(1.74 oz./49 g of 5.0% alpha acids)
0.3 oz. Centennial hops (dry hop)
0.3 oz. Amarillo hops (dry hop)
0.2 oz. Cascade hops (dry hop)
0.2 oz. Tomahawk hops (dry hop)

Is this right for a 1 gallon batch? If so I think your math is off somewhere.
Aside from that do you have any idea what the water profile is for the beers you are making?
Have you tried a very simple recipe
Like 2 row,
a touch of crystal
pick a known hop schedule. and keep it simple. Like 2 hops MAX and see how you do. It could just be basic recipe formulation that is kicking you in the shorts.

My beers got 1000 X's better once I dialed back all the "STUFF" and went simple simple simple.

Just a few thoughts. It's a fun adventure.

Cheers
Jay

 

[kev211]

I dry hop after two weeks of fermentation, by that time FG should already be stable, i ordered a refractrometer to make sure but it has not arrived yet...

Dont forget, when you use a refractometer after fermentation (I never do, only pre-ferment) you need to do some calculation to get the right value. IIRC it has to do with the alcohol in the beer that messes with the correct brix value

 

[luizffgarcia]

I agree with everyone saying sanitizing everything before the boil is not necessary, this is just something i decided to do after i ran out of ideas on how to further improve the process.

Looks like there is 3 things i should try:

- Triple the amount of hops in the dry hop;
- Try using RO water with mineral additions;
- Pitch at lower temperatures, below 20c?

Good stuff, this is exactly the type of feedback i was hoping to get from this thread, anything else i could try?

 

[luizffgarcia]

Is this right for a 1 gallon batch? If so I think your math is off somewhere.
Aside from that do you have any idea what the water profile is for the beers you are making?
Have you tried a very simple recipe
Like 2 row,
a touch of crystal
pick a known hop schedule. and keep it simple. Like 2 hops MAX and see how you do. It could just be basic recipe formulation that is kicking you in the shorts.

My beers got 1000 X's better once I dialed back all the "STUFF" and went simple simple simple.

Just a few thoughts. It's a fun adventure.

Cheers
Jay

Sorry i forgot to mention it is a 5 gallon recipe i just divide everything for 5. I edited the original post.

Yes i just tried a 92% 2row 8% crystal recipe, with columbus for bittering and mosaic in 60, 20 and 0. As simple as it gets, i am still waiting for it to carbonate to find out how that turned out

 

[kev211]

- Try using RO water with mineral additions;
?

Just to further this a little more... If you want to go more advanced you could download the Bru'n Water Spreadsheet to build your water profile. But, the way I started building my water so I could get a feel for it before I dove all in on the water treatment thing was (on IPA's and APA's) using 1g gypsum per gallon in the mash and sparge water.

EDIT: Only do this for Distilled or RO water only

 

[kh54s10]

Racer 5 clone
(Bear Republic Brewing Co.)
(5 gallons/19 L, all-grain)
OG = 1.071 FG = 1.015
IBU = 60 SRM = 10 ABV = 7.2%

Ingredients
11.25 lbs. (5.1 kg) 2-row pale malt
1.66 lbs. (0.75 kg) wheat malt
0.625 lbs. (0.28 kg) crystal malt (15 °L)
0.42 lbs. (0.19 kg) dextrose (corn sugar)
0.21 lbs. (95 g) CaraPils malt
6.1 AAU Chinook hops (90 mins)
(0.51 oz./14 g of 12% alpha acids)
8.7 AAU Cascade hops (60 mins)
(1.74 oz./49 g of 5.0% alpha acids)
0.3 oz. Centennial hops (dry hop)
0.3 oz. Amarillo hops (dry hop)
0.2 oz. Cascade hops (dry hop)
0.2 oz. Tomahawk hops (dry hop)

This recipe is for a 5 gallon batch, i just divide everything for 5

Are you sure this is correct. It looks like the grains and boiled hop totals are right for a 5 gallon batch, but the dry hops are already divided for the 1 gallon batch. I would use 2-6 ounces for a 5 gallon dry hop. Those total 1 ounce, if you divide that by 5 you have almost no dry hop addition.

I heard Ballast Point's Sculpin has 1oz per gallon for dry hop, if that is the case it would make perfect sense to triple my dry hop addition. I just don't understand why every recipe i try will use around 0.2oz to 0.3oz of hops for the dry hop if that is not enough...

.2 to .3 is for each hop the recipe you posted has 1 ounce total.

I dry hop after two weeks of fermentation, by that time FG should already be stable, i ordered a refractrometer to make sure but it has not arrived yet...

Dont forget, when you use a refractometer after fermentation (I never do, only pre-ferment) you need to do some calculation to get the right value. IIRC it has to do with the alcohol in the beer that messes with the correct brix value

This ^^^ a refractometer is a useful tool. You can make calculations for the presence of alcohol but the accuracy is debatable.

 

[luizffgarcia]

Are you sure this is correct. It looks like the grains and boiled hop totals are right for a 5 gallon batch, but the dry hops are already divided for the 1 gallon batch. I would use 2-6 ounces for a 5 gallon dry hop. Those total 1 ounce, if you divide that by 5 you have almost no dry hop addition.


.2 to .3 is for each hop the recipe you posted has 1 ounce total.

I got this recipe from here:

http://byo.com/body/item/153-attack-of-the-hop-clones

This is .2 to .3 for each hop which is 1oz total indeed, but this recipe is for a 5 gallon batch. So if i divide that by 5 i get a .2 total for a 1 gallon batch. Am i right? Or am i missing something?

 

[theseeker4]

One other thing that could result in low hop flavors and aroma and off flavors to the beer is oxidation. I know you say you avoid aeration of the beer when transferring for bottling, but how confident are you that no air gets into the fermentor after primary fermentation ends, and how careful are you about not stirring up the beer too much during transfers?

 

[luizffgarcia]

Just to further this a little more... If you want to go more advanced you could download the Bru'n Water Spreadsheet to build your water profile. But, the way I started building my water so I could get a feel for it before I dove all in on the water treatment thing was (on IPA's and APA's) using 1g gypsum per gallon in the mash and sparge water.

So you just added 1g gypsum to spring water? What was the effect of that for you? I may give this a try...

 

[ong]

Something I would suggest is not adding your hopstand hops until the wort has cooled to around 180, then stand for 30 mins. You won't get any real IBU contribution, but should get more aroma and flavor.

 

[luizffgarcia]

One other thing that could result in low hop flavors and aroma and off flavors to the beer is oxidation. I know you say you avoid aeration of the beer when transferring for bottling, but how confident are you that no air gets into the fermentor after primary fermentation ends, and how careful are you about not stirring up the beer too much during transfers?

Well i think no air is going inside the fermentor because the airlock is in place, and when i start to unscrew it to remove it there is a pressure change, the sanitized water inside it goes up indicating it was properly sealed.

As for transfers i am also pretty confident, i do not transfer to secondary to avoid oxidation so the only transfer is from the fermentor to the priming pot, and then from that pot to the bottles.

 

[kh54s10]

I got this recipe from here:

http://byo.com/body/item/153-attack-of-the-hop-clones

This is .2 to .3 for each hop which is 1oz total indeed, but this recipe is for a 5 gallon batch. So if i divide that by 5 i get a .2 total for a 1 gallon batch. Am i right? Or am i missing something?

Maybe this is accurate for the clone. I have never tried one. Maybe that recipe is wrong. Maybe it is not supposed to have much aroma....

Look at the other recipes. They have a lot more dry hop totals.....

 

[kev211]

So you just added 1g gypsum to spring water? What was the effect of that for you? I may give this a try...

Not spring water. Sorry, should have mentioned this. Distilled or RO water only. Spring water already has minerals added in.

I used 1g Gypsum/gallon distilled

 

[TheHopfather]

Yikes, please don't just blindly add 1g of gypsum to spring water. You'd need a water report before you consider adding anything, if you want to add salts start with RO or distilled water.

I'd start with the water primer (https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=198460), the first time you read it it will seem like another language. Just read it again until it starts to make sense. Start with RO water, you should be able to get some from the grocery store or Walmart. Then follow the primer and that should get you close. Please, please, please don't start blindly adding salts to spring water.

 

[Atlmustang]

IMO, you need to scrap that recipe and start with a smash brew or something much simpler.

If you are going to be converting recipes you might consider getting beersmith. $7 on the appstore. Itll scale recipes for you. I dont think it is as easy as taking a recipe and dividing by 5.

At any rate, I think you should get down the basics and build up to it.

Have you done extract before doing BIAB? You might even consider that to get an idea of scaling.

 

[jerbrew]

Yes i just tried a 92% 2row 8% crystal recipe, with columbus for bittering and mosaic in 60, 20 and 0. As simple as it gets, i am still waiting for it to carbonate to find out how that turned out

Nope, a SMaSH is even more simple

 

[TasunkaWitko]

My advice is to not try so many different techniques at once and get down to some fundamentals.

Buy 3 or 4 pre-packaged mixes of interesting-looking IPAs, use a good spring water that you like, and start with that, following the directions that come with the mixes. I like these, but there are a LOT of options out there:

http://brooklynbrewshop.com/beer-making-mixes

Put the engineering books away. This is brewing beer. People have been doing it for 10 or 12 thousand years. Housewives did it. Farmers who could barely write their own names did it. Brew those mixes as if you're cooking an anniversary dinner for your wife, rather than splicing genes for a test tube baby - and add a little love to the process.

Allow an extra week for fermentation; allow at least three weeks after bottling, followed by one in the refrigerator, and see if there's any improvement.

Will it help? Maybe, maybe not. But I am willing to bet that you'll pick up a lot of fundamentals to the whole process and concept that you didn't notice before.

 

[carloslavin]

Put the engineering books away. This is brewing beer. People have been doing it for 10 or 12 thousand years. Housewives did it. Farmers who could barely write their own names did it. Brew those mixes as if you're cooking an anniversary dinner for your wife, rather than splicing genes for a test tube baby - and add a little love to the process.

You just made me want to go hug all my fermenters, man.

 

[luizffgarcia]

My advice is to not try so many different techniques at once and get down to some fundamentals.

Buy 3 or 4 pre-packaged mixes of interesting-looking IPAs, use a good spring water that you like, and start with that, following the directions that come with the mixes. I like these, but there are a LOT of options out there:

http://brooklynbrewshop.com/beer-making-mixes

Put the engineering books away. This is brewing beer. People have been doing it for 10 or 12 thousand years. Housewives did it. Farmers who could barely write their own names did it. Brew those mixes as if you're cooking an anniversary dinner for your wife, rather than splicing genes for a test tube baby - and add a little love to the process.

Allow an extra week for fermentation; allow at least three weeks after bottling, followed by one in the refrigerator, and see if there's any improvement.

Will it help? Maybe, maybe not. But I am willing to bet that you'll pick up a lot of fundamentals to the whole process and concept that you didn't notice before.

I did start with extract, the first 3 batches were extract. I also have already tried kits, none of them produced beer as good as i want to create.

Don't get me wrong but i read a lot and having 14 batches of experience seems like the perfect timing to focus on details like water chemistry and details such as that, what i am trying to achieve is an awesome beer, the fundamentals to achieve OK beer are already there.

I am not trying different methods, maybe i did not express myself very well, the steps i mentioned are the exact same for the last 6 batches or so, i plan on sticking with BIAB and with the practices that i am using now.

I do appreciate the advice thou, leaving the beer in the fridge for an entire week before trying is something i rarely do, i usually wait 2 or 3 days in the fridge...

 

[luizffgarcia]

Nope, a SMaSH is even more simple

lol, yes for sure its just that i heard most people don't like how Mosaic tastes as a bittering hop, that is why i added one more hop to this

 

[TasunkaWitko]

I did start with extract, the first 3 batches were extract. I also have already tried kits, none of them produced beer as good as i want to create.

BBS Mixes are all-grain, dude.

And according to your OP:

i have brewed 14 batches so far and still have not produced very good beer, the good news is i am brewing 1 gallon batches so i am not stuck with liters and liters of not so good beer.

It seems to me that it would be time to learn some fundamentals, rather than to try new things that will make good beer better, but won't make not-so-good beer good.

Anyway, it was just a suggestion. Brew on!

 

[MapleGroveAleworks]

Gypsum accentuates hop bitterness and flavor/aroma. Stop with the spring water and start building your own profiles for the styles you're brewing. Get your water tested, download and teach yourself BruNWater, and be amazed at the results.

Beer is mostly water, why not treat it with the same diligence as the rest of the ingredients?

 

[luizffgarcia]

Beer is mostly water, why not treat it with the same diligence as the rest of the ingredients?

I was trying to get away with just using spring water, but this actually makes perfect sense!