hops

[kcross13]

I have been trying to figure out hop schedules (like most of us i am sure) to try and balance bittereness and hop flavor and aroma. My IBUs do not usually come off to high but there seems to be too bitter after taste. I have lessened initial hops and increased late additions to keep IBU but try and lose that after taste. I am wondering if some one could specifically explain besides the terms aroma and bitteringx, as what additions add what to flavor?

 

[jester5120]

late additions add to flavor. I saw a chart the other day that someone posted that showed that 20 minute additions were most beneficial to flavor and 7 minute for aroma. Not sure who posted it but that's the first explanation i've seen. late additions and dry hopping will help pull the flavors and aromas out. in american hops these flavors are typically a piney citrusy character. other hops may have spicy or floral character.

hope that sort of answered the question

 

[jester5120]

also hops with low cohumulone levels will give a smooth bitterness rather than that agressive "peel the enamel off your teeth" bitterness. usually when you buy hops they have the cohumulone levels listed by the alpha acids. anything below 25 or 30 is pretty low. this might help with your balancing.

 

[Yooper]

Keep in mind that some water doesn't play well with hoppy beers. Mine does- I can make a pretty good hoppy beer with my tap water. But when I make a lighter beer with hops, like a kolsch, it's harshly bitter even though the IBUs are low.

What kind of water are you using to brew with?

Another thought I had was fermentation temperature. I get some weird harsh flavors if I ferment some yeast strains above 70 degrees- nottingham notably. Could that be an issue for you as well?

Anyway, as far as hop additions, anything added before about 20 minutes before the end of the boil will contribute primarily to more bitterness and have less "hops" flavor to it. Anything added from 20 minutes to the end of the boil will have more hops flavor, while the most aroma will come from hops added with 5 minutes or less to the end of the boil.

 

[audger]

i agree. generally you can think of "bittering hops" as 60-ish minute additions; "flavor hops" as 15-25 minute additions and "aroma hops" as anything added 5-10 miuntes or less from the end of boil.

obviously they arent completely exclusive, meaning you still get some amount of bitterness from a 10 minute addition, but you get much more flavor/aroma than you would bitterness.

 

[kcross13]

Where does FWH fall? I hear mixed reviews about it.

 

[kcross13]

i am just trying to figure out how some beers will hit you with strong bitter and hop upfront but then mellow into the malt, while others the bitter lingers in the back end more.

 

[Yooper]

i am just trying to figure out how some beers will hit you with strong bitter and hop upfront but then mellow into the malt, while others the bitter lingers in the back end more.

Some of it has to do with the type of hops- chinook hops for example are considered "harsh" and will linger, and of course the amount of bittering hops will also play a part. Water chemistry plays a large part as well in the perception of hops bitterness and harshness.

 

[jester5120]

Where does FWH fall? I hear mixed reviews about it.

FWH from what i've read and my own peronal opinion adds more flavor along with an increase in bitterness.

i am just trying to figure out how some beers will hit you with strong bitter and hop upfront but then mellow into the malt, while others the bitter lingers in the back end more.

as yooper said some of it is the volume of hops and the type of hops. I mentioned earlier in the thread about cohumulone levels. they make a smoother or harsher bitterness. beers like dogfish's ipa series (60,90,120) all use high alpha hops with low cohumulone which gives them a strong yet smooth bitterness.

 

[elvestinkle]

I use this chart all the time: Hop Characteristics Derived from Boiling Times

I'm still adding experimental data to my palate. I figure the only good way to really learn is to make a bunch of beer, tweaking as you go. Twist my arm, already...

 

[kcross13]

Thanks that chart is what I was looking for awesome. now on to the next batch.

 

[Nyxator]

I think it's worth noting that Yooper has a good point. I've been playing around with RO water and salts for a while now, and one thing I've noticed is that if my sulfate to chloride ratio is really unbalanced (with way more sulfate than chlorides) I have noticed that hop bitterness is horrendously offensive. When I changed up my water to do at LEAST a 1:1 ratio of the two, I noticed my hop bitterness was much more mellow.

This was true for all of my beers regardless of gravity, timing of hop additions, etc. If you're using tap water, you might try cutting it with some RO water and adding a few grams of calcium chloride and see if changes anything.