Hops efficiency (IBU)

[Cmross87]

I've been working on my Pale Ale game lately and am planning on brewing a Dales Pale Ale clone soon. I've noticed when using beersmith that IBU's quickly climb when adding hops to a recipe but then when I taste the beer the IBU is nowhere near what it was projected. Here's a recipe I recently brewed.

12lbs rahr 2 row
1lb 4oz weyermann carahell
1lb breiss carapils
8oz castle cara ruby
1oz Palisade first wort
0.5oz Warrior 60 min
1oz Rakau 30 min
1oz Citra 0min
Projected IBU according to beersmith: 75.2

I tasted this beer while racking to secondary and it doesn't taste like it's going to be anywhere near 75.2 IBU's. I use a hop bag during the boil to keep them mostly filtered out of the wort, my mash ph is right at 5.2 and I use filtered water out of my tap at home. Any ideas why I'm not getting much bitterness out of my beers? Thanks!

 

[pcampo]

I have noticed the same. So I usually go a little higher in IBUs. I think there several different formulas that one can use to figure IBUs, and they all have slightly different results...hopefully somebody with more knowledge in this can chime in

 

[Bobcatbrewing42]

One of the brewers at Dechutes gave me an informal opinion that for homebrewing you need to almost double the hops to get the designed flavor profile. I use Beersmith too and it seems to be consistently true. I posted a previous thread about this but got no feedback from anyone.

 

[Cmross87]

Thanks for the reply's guys! I don't think beersmith is very accurate on the IBU but I'll learn to adjust accordingly. Cheers!

 

[Rdom]

Your perception of bitterness can be affected by how much sulfate is in the water you use. The IBU's may be right but you might not taste it if you don't have enough sulfate in the water. Do you have a water report for your water? Do you add gypsum to your mash water?
You can try adding gypsum to a glass of your beer and see if that helps it taste more like what you expected. If it does, you might just need more sulfate.

 

[sawbossFogg]

Rdon, is quite right about sulfates, and bobcat as well. BSM offers a date option with their hop addition, oxygen wastes hops like anything else. Unless, your hops are vacuumed sealed you can expect about 50 Alpha Acid loss or the like. Also, if you're so inclined many brewers will CO2 purged hops before replacing in storage. Dales is one hopped mutha so just go big.

 

[Cmross87]

Thanks Rdom. I haven't tried using gypsum yet but I did start using 5.2 stabilizer. I know it acidifies the mash but I thought it had salts in it that would help with hop flavor. Maybe not enough salts? I wonder if it would be ok to use 5.2 and gypsum in the mash water.

 

[Cmross87]

As far as my water profile goes I think sulfates are around 50 ppm which I know is too low for a hoppy beer. I just thought 5.2 would help with hop character more

 

[pdxal]

Sulfate will help, and 50ppm plus 5.2 stabilizer isn't enough. Many think the 5.2 stabilizer is worthless anyway.
If the recipe you posted above is for a 5 gallon batch that is almost 3 pounds of crystal malts. That much crystal is going to lead to a sweeter finishing beer, which will shift the balance from hoppy/bitter to malty/sweet. What have your FGs been on your pale ales? 1# or so crystal, perhaps less, is probably enough for a beer designed to be hoppy.

 

[Cmross87]

Thanks pdxal. So far I've found 5.2 to be helpful especially for pale beers. The recipe above is for six gallons but I see what you mean. I intended for this beer to have a slightly sweet profile to it but of course the bitterness of an IPA. I actually took a recipe for a Sculpin clone and changed up the hops. My FG's are getting down to about 1.020-1.013 depending on the recipe. With a sulfate level of 50ppm would it be safe to use up to two tsp of gypsum in the mash/ sparge?

 

[pdxal]

I would think 2 tsp is OK. 1.020 is a very sweet finishing gravity, 1.013 more where you would like for a sweet/full finish but able to showcase hops with the right hopping and water chemistry.

 

[sawbossFogg]

Honestly, unless you know and input your water profile into an even marginal water management program like BeerSmith, you're just pissing in the wind and will have no idea what is actually in your water. Sounds like your ready to graduate from "5.2" gimmick to real water chemistry and that would be well advised.

You were originally asking about hop alpha acid retention and that is actually the better, quicker easier solution. Sure throw a bunch of chemicals in your beer willy nilly, most of have, but recognize that most hops are stale and oxidized and attempt to make up for that loss in your additions and you'll get what you're looking for.