Hop flavor lost in keg?

[scrub0bk]

So i'm fairly new to kegging - i've done 4 batches so far that have been kegged with mixed results.

The last 3 before this one have had some off flavors i believe i fixed with my water treatment so that was a good start, but i still seem to be having problems with hop flavor falling off quickly.

I kegged a single hop galaxy IPA last wednesday and set it in the kegerator with 25psi on it for 2 days, then dropped it down to about 10-12 for serving. Carbonation seemed good by saturday and poured the first couple glasses. The hop aroma was insane - i could smell it coming from the faucet.

Today i pour another glass and it is really faded, the smell and flavor. I don't really sense any off flavors in the beer just the hop aroma lacking and almost gone.

Any ideas on what could be happening? The batch before this had similar results. I dry hopped with 2 oz straight in the secondary, like ive done before. I haven't seemed to have this problem with bottles in the past.

I do only brew about a 2.5-3 gal batch since thats all i can do and put in a 5 gal keg if that makes a difference as that crossed my mind.

Thanks for any help!

 

[Teromous]

Are you purging your keg a lot?

 

[scrub0bk]

Are you purging your keg a lot?

I don't believe I am, I purged it after I first put it on co2 to relieve the oxygen and then again after dropping it to 12psi. I do smell a ton of aroma when I do it that 2nd time, could that be a problem? Would I have better results to leave it 9on 12ish for longer rather than the 25? Still trying to perfect this!

Thanks all

 

[jmark]

How are you transferring into the keg from your FV? Are you purging the keg with CO2 before the transfer? It's amazing what a difference just that will do to keeping the hoppiness stick around. Check this blog post out for some details on how some folks do this.

http://www.metabrewing.com/2014/08/avoiding-oxygen-when-kegging-co2.html

 

[giant]

IMO this is because the first few pours also contain some of the liquid closest to the hops, and the later pours are the 'normal' beer you made. The bottled beers let out an initial hoppy aroma that lingers, but in the glass will likely fade. Or are you saying the hop aroma lingers even after the pour?

Next batch I would try more late additions or dry hops.

 

[pvault98]

IMO this is because the first few pours also contain some of the liquid closest to the hops, and the later pours are the 'normal' beer you made. The bottled beers let out an initial hoppy aroma that lingers, but in the glass will likely fade. Or are you saying the hop aroma lingers even after the pour?

Next batch I would try more late additions or dry hops.

I completely agree with this. I have seen this on many of my IPA's and once the beer starts to clear the hop aroma fades a bit. The last batch I filled the keg with star san and pushed half of it out using co2 and then added my dry hops in a bag. I purged it several times and then puhsed the rest of the star san out under CO2. I then racked the beer from the carboy by pushing it out with CO2 directly into the purged keg and dry hopped 7 days. After that I pushed that beer out using a keg-to-keg connection into another keg that had completely filled with star san and pumped out with CO2 so I know this beer had near zero oxygen exposure and the same thing happened with the hop aroma fading after several pours. I guess that is just how it goes and if you had tasted the beer for the first time after it was faded, I bet you would be happy with the aroma but since you experienced with insane aromas it somehow just seems less good to you now.

 

[scrub0bk]

I completely agree with this. I have seen this on many of my IPA's and once the beer starts to clear the hop aroma fades a bit. The last batch I filled the keg with star san and pushed half of it out using co2 and then added my dry hops in a bag. I purged it several times and then puhsed the rest of the star san out under CO2. I then racked the beer from the carboy by pushing it out with CO2 directly into the purged keg and dry hopped 7 days. After that I pushed that beer out using a keg-to-keg connection into another keg that had completely filled with star san and pumped out with CO2 so I know this beer had near zero oxygen exposure and the same thing happened with the hop aroma fading after several pours. I guess that is just how it goes and if you had tasted the beer for the first time after it was faded, I bet you would be happy with the aroma but since you experienced with insane aromas it somehow just seems less good to you now.

The aroma before was out of control and now its barely anything. I might try the keg hop and leave it while i drink instead of the standard dry hop.

I don't have a 2nd keg to jump to reduce oxygen so i can only use the auto siphon directly into the keg and seal it up immediately and purge of co2.

Does the headspace in the keg have anything to do with it? Should i invest in 3 gal kegs if i am going to stick to these batches?

thanks all for the help

 

[Murphy2012]

I agree with everyone else, especially if some hops particles (more realistic if you used pellets) made it into the keg. The pickup tube on your keg is close to the bottom, I'd assume, and you may be getting some of that in the beer or stuck near the dispenser which gives it that extra bit of "kick". That, and "green" IPAs, at least to me, tend to have some extra bitterness to them until they settle for a week or possibly two. Then, it's game on!

 

[ph0ngwh0ng]

^myths

FACTS:

"Every brewer and scientist I talked to had the same piece of advice to homebrewers: Focus on minimizing oxygen uptake post-fermentation."

For your current batch, I would dry hop in the keg.

In the future, consider racking from a carboy, using CO2 to push the beer in the keg you previously filled with CO2 (fill it with sanitizer and push it out using CO2).

 

[jmark]

This! Like I said earlier - this makes all the difference in the world!

 

[scrub0bk]

I believe that would be my problem then - oxygen. Unfortunately i'm using the buckets instead of carboys since thats all i have currently so i'm not sure how to get it from there to the keg via co2.

My next batch i will just go straight to the keg and throw the dry hops in there with the tea balls instead of directly into the secondary and see how my results differ.

 

[cjgenever]

Does the beer darken slightly as the flavor fades? Kinda gets an orange-amber tone and gains a touch of caramel flavor? Those are sure take signs of oxidized Alfa acids.

Purge all transfer lines/siphon before transfer. You can purge the keg by holding the Co2 line on the beer in. That will dump it right in the bottom. Use a low pressure to reduce mixing with air. I do this twice for 30 sec with a five min break in between. Then purge your full keg twice before pressurizing.

I use a air blow gun with 3´ extension that I got for cheap at harbor freight to purge things.

I love hoppy beers. 1lb hops per five gal. I use a 2oz bittering charge and all the rest are for aroma/flavor and DH. You can make a great ipa without all that, but you really need more late additions than I've seen in a lot of recipes. Before you jump on the oxidation bandwagon maybe you should give us the recipe you are having a problem with?

 

[cjgenever]

Note...

If you ball ball lock you will need to be sure to not completely engage the Co2 disconnect to the beverage in. If using pin lock you can remove the upper c ring to allow the collar to slide up the shank of the disconnect. This will allow you to hold out on place on the beverage in.

 

[Murphy2012]

Great information!

 

[scrub0bk]

Does the beer darken slightly as the flavor fades? Kinda gets an orange-amber tone and gains a touch of caramel flavor? Those are sure take signs of oxidized Alfa acids.

Purge all transfer lines/siphon before transfer. You can purge the keg by holding the Co2 line on the beer in. That will dump it right in the bottom. Use a low pressure to reduce mixing with air. I do this twice for 30 sec with a five min break in between. Then purge your full keg twice before pressurizing.

I use a air blow gun with 3´ extension that I got for cheap at harbor freight to purge things.

I love hoppy beers. 1lb hops per five gal. I use a 2oz bittering charge and all the rest are for aroma/flavor and DH. You can make a great ipa without all that, but you really need more late additions than I've seen in a lot of recipes. Before you jump on the oxidation bandwagon maybe you should give us the recipe you are having a problem with?

I didn't notice any darker color from one day to the next. Heres the recipe that i used:

6 lb - American - Pale 2-Row (88.2%)
0.1 lb - Flaked Oats (1.5%)
0.25 lb - American - Caramel / Crystal 40L (3.7%)
0.45 lb - German - Munich Light (6.6%)

HOPS:
0.5 oz - Columbus, Type: Pellet, AA: 15, Use: Boil for 60 min, IBU: 48.83
0.5 oz - Galaxy, Type: Pellet, AA: 8, Use: Boil for 15 min, IBU: 12.92
0.5 oz - Galaxy, Type: Pellet, AA: 8, Use: Boil for 5 min, IBU: 5.19
1 oz - Galaxy, Type: Pellet, AA: 8, Use: Boil for 0 min
2 oz - Galaxy, Type: Pellet, AA: 8, Use: Dry Hop for 7 days

I just wanted to try out the new hops, i figured for a 3 gal batch i had enough hops but i could be completely wrong.

Thanks for the help!