Getting better at achieving open crumb of my sourdough with stout beer instead of water
When I'm not baking a lot, I feed my sourdough and put it right back in the fridge. This way I can go a couple of weeks between feedings, during which time it will slowly fully rise and start to fall. But I'll always take it out and give one feeding at room temperature before making my starter for the bread. That's plenty to get it back up to speed.A sourdough loaf.
...and a question, does anyone feed their starter and immediately put it back in the fridge? I heard of people doing this and tried it with this loaf but it sure was sluggish. I feel like the starter coming out of the fridge was still roughly half unfermented dough and probably didn't have enough bugs per it's weight. My starter has gotten to be too active for its container so I was looking for a way to keep it from jumping out of its glass home.View attachment 666533
I do the same as what Robert does. I will allow the starter to sit at room temp for 6 or 8 hours before feed. If the first feeding is slow I will give it a second or third feeding before using if it seems slow. Normally if it is only a week or two one feeding is enough, but mine has gone months in the fridge and that takes a few feeding to get back to normal.A sourdough loaf.
...and a question, does anyone feed their starter and immediately put it back in the fridge? I heard of people doing this and tried it with this loaf but it sure was sluggish. I feel like the starter coming out of the fridge was still roughly half unfermented dough and probably didn't have enough bugs per it's weight. My starter has gotten to be too active for its container so I was looking for a way to keep it from jumping out of its glass home.View attachment 666533
A sourdough loaf.
...and a question, does anyone feed their starter and immediately put it back in the fridge? I heard of people doing this and tried it with this loaf but it sure was sluggish. I feel like the starter coming out of the fridge was still roughly half unfermented dough and probably didn't have enough bugs per it's weight. My starter has gotten to be too active for its container so I was looking for a way to keep it from jumping out of its glass home.View attachment 666533
A sourdough loaf.
...and a question, does anyone feed their starter and immediately put it back in the fridge? I heard of people doing this and tried it with this loaf but it sure was sluggish. I feel like the starter coming out of the fridge was still roughly half unfermented dough and probably didn't have enough bugs per it's weight. My starter has gotten to be too active for its container so I was looking for a way to keep it from jumping out of its glass home.View attachment 666533
Been hooked on all the bread you folks are turning out, and buoyed by my success a couple of weeks ago with the Italian sandwich rolls I made, so I picked up a used book. It was cheap and looks a little ragged on the outside, but it appears to have never been opened on the inside!!
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I find it interesting that the acetic acid is reduced. (I too favor mild sourdough breads, in the French, or central European rye, mold.) In my experience, reducing the % of levain in the final build often increases the perceived level of acetic sourness, I have presumed because of a lengthier fermentation necessitated by the also reduced yeast population. Do you think there is a certain threshold below which the % of levain must be reduced? Is this essentially recapitulating the original development of the culture, where in the early days a milder character may prevail (though with limited leavening capacity in that case)?Working on a new technique (for me), "fermentation lente" or extremely slow bulk ferment, by lower temps and very low levain seeding.
-1% chef/levain
-1.3% salt only
-20C
-16 hours chef development, stiff levain, followed by 20 hours of the bulk ferment.
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I really like the results. There is a really rich complexity of flavor, and given the time, temp, and low seeding ratio, the acetic and phytic acids are nicely reduced - there's almost a touch of "round" sweetness. I don't make very sour sourdoughs, preferring the French palate for a milder sourness, if any at all.
Anyway, interesting technique.
Baked Italian Rolls again yesterday for Italian roast beef sandwiches and they were delicious!
View attachment 666957
I find it interesting that the acetic acid is reduced. (I too favor mild sourdough breads, in the French, or central European rye, mold.) In my experience, reducing the % of levain in the final build often increases the perceived level of acetic sourness, I have presumed because of a lengthier fermentation necessitated by the also reduced yeast population. Do you think there is a certain threshold below which the % of levain must be reduced? Is this essentially recapitulating the original development of the culture, where in the early days a milder character may prevail (though with limited leavening capacity in that case)?
Thanks. This is a 3 hour room temp biga with an overnight cold ferment, then on baking day finish the dough and bulk ferment for 2-3 hours at room temp, then shape and proof again for an hour or two before egg wash, scoring, then baking. Baked on a parchment paper lined sheet pan at 450 F with a second pan in the bottom of the oven for water to create steam. Shaping is just by hand. Got better tension built up this time when shaping than I did for my previous attempt. These are perfectly sized for sandwiches.Those are nice looking. How did you bake them? Also I love the shape.
I have those same racks
Thanks. This is a 3 hour room temp biga with an overnight cold ferment, then on baking day finish the dough and bulk ferment for 2-3 hours at room temp, then shape and proof again for an hour or two before egg wash, scoring, then baking. Baked on a parchment paper lined sheet pan at 450 F with a second pan in the bottom of the oven for water to create steam. Shaping is just by hand. Got better tension built up this time when shaping than I did for my previous attempt. These are perfectly sized for sandwiches.
Awesome, thanks. Sent me on a nice mission, biga. So cool where you are taking your bread making. Did it have a ciabatta texture? Have heard the term biga, poolish, sponge, had to find out more.
Although Peter Reinhart and friends have lately (and inexplicably) appropriated it to refer to a sourdough culture, "barm" is actually the native English word for Kräusen, the foamy head of yeast on top of fermenting beer. Brewers have, throughout history, skimmed their excess yeast and sold it to bakers; hence, all of our baker's yeast is still simply S. cerevisiae. This symbiosis between brewer and baker is worth noting in the context of this forum. Nonetheless, barm is not a levain culture, but quite the opposite, it is baker's yeast. Another interesting thing to note about the trade in yeast between brewers and bakers is that it was a feature of the economy towns, of course. This sheds light on the antiquity of the distinction between yeasted "city" breads, like the baguette, and sourdough "country" breads, which dichotomy is often imagined to be a product of the industrial age. We may think of sourdough breads as being more traditional and yeast breads as modern, but they really have stood side by side all along.Barm is another one. Look up Peter Reinhart, if you haven't already. I'm afraid I'm too much the francophile and prefer levain, but cool traditions in all these.
Although Peter Reinhart and friends have lately (and inexplicably) appropriated it to refer to a sourdough culture, "barm" is actually the native English word for Kräusen, the foamy head of yeast on top of fermenting beer. Brewers have, throughout history, skimmed their excess yeast and sold it to bakers; hence, all of our baker's yeast is still simply S. cerevisiae. This symbiosis between brewer and baker is worth noting in the context of this forum. Nonetheless, barm is not a levain culture, but quite the opposite, it is baker's yeast. Another interesting thing to note about the trade in yeast between brewers and bakers is that it was a feature of the economy towns, of course. This sheds light on the antiquity of the distinction between yeasted "city" breads, like the baguette, and sourdough "country" breads, which dichotomy is often imagined to be a product of the industrial age. We may think of sourdough breads as being more traditional and yeast breads as modern, but they really have stood side by side all along.
Biga is just another name for a preferment technique, as are levain, poolish, sponge, etc.Awesome, thanks. Sent me on a nice mission, biga. So cool where you are taking your bread making. Did it have a ciabatta texture? Have heard the term biga, poolish, sponge, had to find out more.
It almost sounds like a no knead recipe. Anyone ever compare a no knead and biga? I suspect the biga gathers some flavor with age like my bucket.
I do not understand what this is better than just a long bulk ferment of all the dough at once. I just followed the recipe.
Good info. Thanks for that.Ther are a couple of reasons preferments are used.
A quick, wet "sponge" was widely used (especially by home bakers) when commercially produced yeast was of dubious quality, and it served to wake up the yeast in the favorable warm, wet environment before tasking it with the job of fermenting the whole batch. Yeast today is more reliable.
Other yeasted preferments (biga, pate fermenter, etc.) were adopted by commercial bakers to try to elicit some of the qualities of a long bulk fermentation while speeding up production to meet industrial needs.
These yeasted preferments must of course be distinguished from sourdoughs.
After most of a lifetime of devotion to various preferments, I've come around to realize I actually prefer the breads produced by, and the casual pace of, simple, hand mixed, long fermented, yeast breads. Several folds and a 4 hour or so bulk ferment works wonders.
Thanks. I'm pretty pleased, but have yet to cook with it. I fed it this morning and took this show about 3 hours later. I found a basic sourdough bolle recipe I'm going to have a go at.That's a good looking starter.
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