Help with a simple Hefeweizen

[Travis K. Jansen]

Working on brewing a hefe next up, found this post:
http://forum.northernbrewer.com/t/looking-for-a-hacker-pschorr-clone/12212/3

Wheat Malt 5lb
Pilsner 2lb
Vienna 1lb
Caramunich 60L 8oz

I'm guessing Caramunich II or III to get that 60L correct?

I'm debating between this and Gordon Strong's El Hefe which is simply:
6.0 lb (2.72 kg) Durst wheat malt
4.0 lb (1.81 kg) Durst pilsner malt
0.67 oz (19 g) Sterling whole hops, 6.2% a.a. (60 min)
Wyeast 3068 Weihenstephan Weizen ale yeast
Possibly gonna try a decoction as well, but not sure yet.

My last hefe I used too much acidulated malt in my RO water and it came out too sour, and I think I used too pale of malts and didn't get the color I wanted. I'm not planning on using any acid malt this time and simply sticking to CaCl and Gypsum if necessary. I'm going for banana so i'll keep it on the higher end of temps, and the color (and flavor) I'm looking for is displayed in that link above where the guy said he did side-by-side.

Thoughts on my next project? I'm really picky about hefe's and I want to get this one right.

 

[thehaze]

Weyermann CaraMunich III is almost 60L, so use that. CaraMunich II is somewhere between 42 and 49L, according to the Weyermann website.

Personally, I wouldn't use Crystal malt. Mash at 154-156F. Ferment at higher temps. Shoot for a ph in the 5.35-5.4 range, if you do not want it to sour. 50 ppm Ca, under 10 ppm Mg, 5 ppm Na, 50 ppm chloride and 50 ppm sulfate.

But depending on your brew water composition, you will most likely need to acidify your mash and sparge water, to get the pH in range.

 

[Kharnynb]

same, my hefe is about 50% pilsner, 30% wheat malt, 20% wheat oats, no other malts needed really.

 

[homebrewer_99]

All I use is:

5#, 12 oz Wheat malt
8 oz Rice Hulls
3#, 12 oz Pale malt

 

[Smellyglove]

If you want it more Weihenstephaner or Paulaner you need light crystal malts. The most important thing is to not carbonate it with simple sugars or keg it.

 

[Queequeg]

Depends on what you are aiming for. Hefe's really fall in two 2 types. Classic pale hefe; 50% pilsner malt 50% wheat malt and Ruddy Bavaria hefe, which should again in include =>50% wheat but the remainder should be Munich and caraaroma.

The former you want a nice balance of clove and banana the later you want banana, bubble gum and stone fruit. So choose your yeast and fermentation appropriately.

Decoction isn't necessary, but if you want a significant clove contribution then you will need a ferulic acid rest at 45°C.

 

[Queequeg]

Also do not ferment in a concial and deliberately under pitch

 

[Smellyglove]

Also do not ferment in a concial and deliberately under pitch

I feel this is a very strange/uneducated advise. You can perfectly fine get an ester-bonanza-deluxe with even 380 (phenols) without underpitching or fermenting in a conical. Meaning you also can make a balanced hefe. The hydrostatic pressure in a homebrew-scale conical is nowhere near a commercial sized conical. And underpitching is not necessary to make a balanced or ester-y one. People often say that you need to underpitch to get the "banana", it might help, but it's not anything you need to do.

 

[Queequeg]

It probably makes no difference on the homebrew scale, but if you own a concial you probably own a plastic bucket.

As for underpitching, I have had good results from both underpitching and correct pitch rates with high ester production strains. Temperature is more key, but then again if you can pitch correctly then you can probably pitch low.

Likely makes little difference, but also takes little effort.

 

[Smellyglove]

It probably makes no difference on the homebrew scale, but if you own a concial you probably own a plastic bucket.

As for underpitching, I have had good results from both underpitching and correct pitch rates with high ester production strains. Temperature is more key, but then again if you can pitch correctly then you can probably pitch low.

Likely makes little difference, but also takes little effort.

The speise is the key. (but also temps like you said are important) I get at least half of the ester-profile from the carbonation if carbonated at elevated temps. If you just keg it or god forbid, carbonate with simple sugars, then the process is not contributing as much as it could.

 

[Queequeg]

The speise is the key. (but also temps like you said are important) I get at least half of the ester-profile from the carbonation if carbonated at elevated temps. If you just keg it or god forbid, carbonate with simple sugars, then the process is not contributing as much as it could.

I definitely agree with the spiese being important to the ester profile.

I really want to make a Ruddy style hefe. I had Bamburg's Ambrosia brewery hefe last year. It's awesome.

 

[Travis K. Jansen]

Interesting, I had not known the classifications of hefes. I just know what I often go for, and that is slightly orange in color, creamy, high-banana (Hacker Pschorr, Paulaner, Franziskaner). I like the pale ones as well, but I'm partial the to SLIGHTLY darker colored pours.

I'll do some research into Ruddy style. For this batch, I'm going to ferment in 68-70 range, no starter. We'll see how she goes...

 

[Smellyglove]

Interesting, I had not known the classifications of hefes. I just know what I often go for, and that is slightly orange in color, creamy, high-banana (Hacker Pschorr, Paulaner, Franziskaner). I like the pale ones as well, but I'm partial the to SLIGHTLY darker colored pours.

I'll do some research into Ruddy style. For this batch, I'm going to ferment in 68-70 range, no starter. We'll see how she goes...

TBH, I don't know why people don't use a starter in Hefeweizens. Well, I sort of know. It's because there's a misconseption between vitality and viability. If you do want to underpitch, do so, but pitch good and healthy yeastIf not, like in any other beer you can see slow fermentation, higher FG, more sulphur and more stuff that needs to be "mellowed out". A hefe is one of the beers which should taste good after day five from the fermentor imo.

 

[Travis K. Jansen]

I don't know, I do a starter in all my beers, but I'm experimenting, and as I've heard (as you said, maybe incorrectly) that underpitching might help with stressing the yeast a bit, i thought I'd try it. My yeast is pretty new, so I'm not terribly concerned about its health.

Hell, this whole recipe is basically an experiment.

 

[homebrewer_99]

I lived in Bavaria for 9 years and did TONS of research on HWs.

I'll stick with my recipe and process. I make starters, ALWAYS get banana flavors/aroma and they have a slight orange tinge.

 

[Travis K. Jansen]

I lived in Bavaria for 9 years and did TONS of research on HWs.

I'll stick with my recipe and process. I make starters, ALWAYS get banana flavors/aroma and they have a slight orange tinge.

That was this, right:

5#, 12 oz Wheat malt
8 oz Rice Hulls
3#, 12 oz Pale malt

Do you use 3068 yeast?

 

[homebrewer_99]

That was this, right:

5#, 12 oz Wheat malt
8 oz Rice Hulls
3#, 12 oz Pale malt

Do you use 3068 yeast?

I only use WLP300 for HWs.

Here's my entire recipe:

WLP300 Hefe Weizen Ale yeast. Make starter 1-2 days prior.

Ingredients:
5#, 12 oz Wheat malt
8 oz Rice Hulls
3#, 12 oz Pale malt
2 AAU Hallertau (German Traditional) hops (60 mins)
(Yes, only 2 AAUs...makes a sweet HW).

Temperature Stepped Infusion Mash. (First water temp needs to be 10-11F higher than target). (My mash tun is a (short) 7 gallon Rubbermaid cooler).

Mash Schedule:
122F for 30 mins.
151F for 60 mins.

Second water addition (to raise T to 151) AND Batch Sparge with NEAR BOILING water to raise mash temp.

Collect 6.5 - 7 gals.
Total Boil Time: 90 mins.
Boil 30 mins.
Add hops.
Boil 45 mins.
Add Wort Chiller.
Boil 15 mins.
Chill to fermentation temp and aerate.

Record Temp: ____F / Gravity: 1.0____
Pitch yeast.

Ferment between 68-70F to completion.
(For Kristall Weizen: Rack to a carboy until clear).
Prime with 6 oz Corn Sugar if bottling.
Store around 70F for 4-7 days before sampling.
When the desired carbonation level is reached place the bottles in a cold place/fridge. MINIMUM: 48 hours, 1 week is better.

 

[universalfrost]

Munich classic is the dry yeast version of wlp300...


I've brewed identical batches using both yeast and they turn out identical brews .... And absolutely zero people can tell the difference and more than half of them are either native German or lived 10+ years in Germany ( myself included).... Rehydrate the Munich classic in a water bottle and pitch in...wlp300 do a 1000ml starter....

50/50 white wheat and Vienna or pilsner malt and some rice hulls for good measure is a classic recipe.. 30 min protein rest at 120f then mash at 150 and fly sparge at 175ish...

Use about 1 oz of hallertau at boil and another half ounce with 5 minutes left...for about 5.5 gallon collected in the fermenter after 60 min