Help! Our Imperial Stout's Gonna Blow?

[DeBAD]

This is a post I put on the Midwest Brewing Site on Sunday 11/17. Fortunately I think we weatherd the storm but I didn't feel totally satisfied with the amount of feedback I got. The advice we did receive was good, however there just isn't a lot of participants on that form so I'm switching to this one. Since we are new to this hobby I'm trying to learn all I can. I will also copy my other follow up posts from this thread so you can see my other comments. Please feel free to comment on any of the moves I made and let me know if we are on track. Thanks!

Original post 11/17 3:29pm:
Last night (Sat 11/16) we brewed the MW Imperial Stout extract. We pitched the yeast at 7:45 PM and the fermenter is in a dark room with a constant temp between 68 to 70. From what I've read this can be a pretty aggressive batch (btw the starting gravity was almost 1.09) so we rigged up a blow off hose. We used the one that came with the kit (3/8 I think) and dropped it into our bottling bucket (so we'd have plenty or room) with 1 1/2 gal or so StarSan mixture. Also from what I read it sounds like it's possible my room is a little warm so we set up a water bath and dropped in a couple frozen water bottles. Went to bed around 1:30 and no activity yet.

Checked it at 9:00 AM this morning and the party was on! Plenty of bubbling in the water and bubbles in the hose. Temp in the fermentation bucket read 66 so felt pretty good about that and dropped in a couple new frozen water bottles.

Now here we are at 3:00 PM and everything is MUCH more aggressive. Tons of bubbling, krausen in the tube and bucket, and bubbling up under the lid of the fermentation bucket. Now I put some weight on top of the lid just in case. Temp in ferm bucket still says 66 degrees.

I attached a picture of my rig so you can observe the set up we have right now.

Am I gonna be okay? I'm concerned my tube is too small to handle the activity and what if it plugs?

Help!

Follow up post 11/18 5:53am:
Sorry couldn't get pic to work. Laid two small pieces of 2x4 over the top of the lid and set 2-10lb weights on them to keep the mutha from blasting off!

Update: left house for several hours and returned around midnight Sun night to find everything still intact. However there was lots of foam in blow off bucket, a layer of foam and sugars around the outside of the lid, and dark brown foam and sugars clogged up in the hose. But at least there was still a trickle of bubbling so luckily it wasn't totally blocked. I quickly clipped off the top 5-inches of the hose and taped a gallon size baggie over it, cleaned and sanitized the rest of the hose, pulled the stub out and popped the hose back in.

Dodged a bullet for now but will see in the morning!

Follow up post 11/18 6:30am:
Good news so far! Checked it at 6 am (Mon) this morning and looks pretty good. Still plenty of bubbling in blow off bucket but now it's clean in there. Hose clean too and not clogged. Dropped couple fresh frozen bottles in water bath and let it go.

Did we weather the storm? Temp on the outside of the ferm bucket now 63. Should we start bringing the temp back up now?

Follow up post 11/18 10:04am:
So you think I should keep my ferm temp where it is or start letting go back up and eventually take it out of the cold bath? Regular room temp is 68 to 70.

 

[indianajns]

Depending on your yeast, (which you may have mentioned the kind/brand and I missed it), personally, I think 63 is a bit on the cold side. I'd let it ramp back up slowish to 68ish. Try to avoid big temp swings up and then back down. As long as you ramp up to 68 and stay somewhere in that range you should be good to go. 1.090! Big OG there. With a beer that big you are going to want a good pitch. Did you use a starter? (Stout was the very first beer I ever made. Love the stuff and I bet yours will come out fantastic.)

 

[LovesIPA]

The temp depends on the yeast strain.

63 might be a little on the cool side but it really is strain-dependent.

The flavor profile is pretty much set within the first 24 to 36 hours, so once you get past that window you can let it rise to room temperature.

I leave mine in the ferm chamber for a minimum of four days, then they get moved to inside the house where the temp can be as high as 75.

 

[DeBAD]

We used the Safale Ale S-04 Whitbread Strain. We used one package for a 5-gallon batch and we re-hydrated it. It was live and active when we pitched and our wort temp was approx 75 degrees when we pitched.

Luckily we only used 1-package (a few posts I read before we brewed suggested 2).

Looks like the recommended fermentation temp is 59 to 75.

How long should we leave this animal in the primary? It's still bubbling at a rate of approx. 100 per minute.

How long should I leave it in the secondary before I bottle?

 

[Haji]

Couple thoughts,

1) 3/8 for a blow off tube is a hair small IMO. I'd say step it up to a 1 1/4" next time and you'll have plenty of room. Bigger tube also means more efficient venting of CO2, so you wont have to worry about coming back to beermageddon later on. You'll likely to have to modify your lid on your primary fermentor, or you could buy a 6.5 gallon carboy. Perfect seal in the neck with
1 1/4" hose.

2) With an OG that high you probably should consider pitching two packs of yeast, otherwise your beer will run the risk of being under attenuated. If you doing HG beers, try checking out www.mrmalty.com and using the Pitching Rate Calculator. This is especially helpful when using liquid.

 

[flars]

Keep it in the low 60°s for a week. Then let the temp rise on its own. Take a Specific Gravity reading at two weeks. When you have two to three SG readings over the course of three to four days, that are the same, fermentation is complete. Allow another week from the first stable hydrometer reading for the the yeast to clean up off flavors of the fermentation process.

Sanitize the outside of the bucket top and lid before opening.

I would not use a secondary unless you have some other additions.

 

[ScottG58]

I have brewed the Midwest RIP a couple of years ago. It turns out nice. You will enjoy it.

 

[DeBAD]

Couple thoughts,


2) With an OG that high you probably should consider pitching two packs of yeast, otherwise your beer will run the risk of being under attenuated. If you doing HG beers, try checking out www.mrmalty.com and using the Pitching Rate Calculator. This is especially helpful when using liquid.

So you are saying I might not have added enough yeast initially? Is it too late to add more? I'm at Day 3. Note however the batch instructions say to ferment in the primary for 10-14 days, rack to secondary and at that time add a packet of Pasteur Champagne yeast (provided with the kit). Should that take care of it?

 

[jrgtr42]

For a beer that big, normally a starter is recommended, although some authorities say that a pack of dry yeast will have enough viable cells for most batches.
I've gotten in the habit of making a starter for every batch over about 1.045 or so. Doesn't take anything except a cup or so of DME and a bit of time.
Sounds like you did everything right as far as it goes. Sounds like you mostly prevented blow off, and kept the beer more or less in optimal range.
Now comes the hard part.
Waiting.
Don't go by a calendar to tell you when to bottle; the BEER will tell you when it's done. Once you stop seeing bubbles coming through the airlock / blow off, give it another week or so. Check the gravity. Close it back up and check again in 3 days or so. If its the same, the beer is done, you can go ahead and bottle, or rack over if you want to bulk age it.
IF you feel the need to look at it before it stops, DON'T!!! Just walk away. It is fine in there. I promise.

 

[DeBAD]

Okay I've got to stop reading other posts, I'm getting advice from both sides.

Should I pitch more yeast or should I not worry about it? Like I said in my previous post I'm on Day 3 and I'm still getting bubbling at approx 100 bubbles per minute.

After reading other posts some say I should have used a starter, some say I should have pitched more yeast, some say I'm okay, some say I should pitch more, some say I could pitch more but it probably won't do any good but it won't hurt.

However seems logical to me that if I'm still in an active fermentation stage after 3 days of activity I'm probably okay right?

Also I keep going back to the fact that the actual instructions that came with my Imperial Stout kit only called for the one packet of yeast and then addition of the Champagne yeast once I pitch after a couple off weeks. Logic tells me I should be safe as long as I'm following those directions.

So I'm inclined to ride it out and not pitch more yeast. That being the decision I'm going to make, how does temperature enter in. I asked this earlier but should I start to let it increase (it's at 63 now in the water bath and my room is at 68 to 70). Will an increase in temperature help at this stage.

Lots of thoughts here I understand. Thanks for any help you can provide.

 

[DeBAD]

Sorry guys when I said I need to stop reading other posts I did NOT mean this thread. I appreciate all the help. I meant posts from other threads out there in cyberspace.

Thanks.

 

[NWMushroom]

Personally I wouldn't add more yeast at this stage. Ride it out. Sounds like you're gonna have a great beer!

I normally start raising the temp about a degree a day after 3 or 4 days then hold at 68 or so depending on beer style and yeast strain.

 

[jrgtr42]

Like he said, at this point let it ride. Truth be told, I don't really see the need for champagne yeast either... but let the beer and your taste tell you what it wants / needs.
If the final gravity is where the instructions say it should be expected to be, I personally wouldn't - Imperial Stouts generally should have some residual sweetness, champagne yeast will take the final gravity down possibly further than it should be.

In the future, read up on yeast and yeast starters. The long and short is that generally, for a beer with starting gravity over about 1.050, a single packet (vial, smack-pack) of yeast doesn't really have the number of healthy cells to get a good fermentation going quickly. Pitching low counts could cause off-flavors in the finished beer, as the cells that are there are stressed, and start throwing off esters (flavor and aroma compounds) as they reproduce more than otherwise to get to a healthy fermenting population.
What's done is done with this beer, and you should relax and don't worry about it. You will end up with beer. What all this advice is trying to do is to let you have the opportunity to make the very best beer you can.

 

[Haji]

To clarify,

Yeast pitching rates are for the beginning of fermentation. Ideally, if you are over 1.080 SG, you are likely going to be pitching more than one pack if you want the proper attenuation. Pitching lower amounts means a slightly stressed fermentation with more esthers and a little higher finishing gravity. Pitching more yeast at this point is unnecessary. The beer will be fine. Sometimes the yeast will have enough oomph to get through it, sometimes it will end up being a little sweeter. You wlll still enjoy it, I guarantee it.

I don't know why they gave you the Champagne yeast. The only reason I can think of is that they were afraid of a stuck fermentation since it is a higher gravity beer. If you are getting relatively close to your finishing gravity after a week in primary and two weeks in secondary I wouldn't worry about it. Like jrgtr42 said before me, beer is done when your specific gravity is constant for about three readings over the course of a week. Lower temperatures will mean a longer fermentation, so keep that in mind when trying to decide when to start taking readings.

As far as raising temperature, I'd probably just try to keep it under 70. Any higher and the S-04 strain throws more fruity esthers.

 

[indianajns]

Like he said, at this point let it ride. Truth be told, I don't really see the need for champagne yeast either... but let the beer and your taste tell you what it wants / needs.
If the final gravity is where the instructions say it should be expected to be, I personally wouldn't - Imperial Stouts generally should have some residual sweetness, champagne yeast will take the final gravity down possibly further than it should be.

In the future, read up on yeast and yeast starters. The long and short is that generally, for a beer with starting gravity over about 1.050, a single packet (vial, smack-pack) of yeast doesn't really have the number of healthy cells to get a good fermentation going quickly. Pitching low counts could cause off-flavors in the finished beer, as the cells that are there are stressed, and start throwing off esters (flavor and aroma compounds) as they reproduce more than otherwise to get to a healthy fermenting population.
What's done is done with this beer, and you should relax and don't worry about it. You will end up with beer. What all this advice is trying to do is to let you have the opportunity to make the very best beer you can.

+1 to jrgtr42 Some more good news is that you have made a style of beer that is very, very forgiving and excellent at covering up a good amount of any off-flavors generated from stressed out yeasties. Enjoy this batch and let us know how it turns out. I bet it is going to be better than you think, and look forward to the next which will be even better.

 

[DeBAD]

Update. We transferred the Imperial to the secondary on Saturday (exactly 14 days), tested the gravity and it was perfect! In fact it's right smack in the middle of the target range already and we plan to leave it in the secondary at least 1-month. We also tasted the sample and man is it good! Didn't detect any off flavors and no hot alcohol taste. Per the instructions we pitched the package of Champagne yeast, added a tbsp of vanilla extract and dropped in the airlock.

Looking back, on day 4 we DID go ahead and pitch the second packet of yeast. Impossible to tell if it did any good or not but since our gravity was right on target I'd like to think it helped a little.

Now we wait, and wait, and wait! Thanks to everyone for all the helpful input!

 

[RIC0]

if starting gravity was 1.090 or close to it then 1 pack of yeast is not enough.

I would say you did the right thing by using a second pack and that is the only reason things did well for you.

I use only dry yeast and have had beers come up short on final gravity due to lack of enough yeast pitched on high gravity beers.

Dry yeast is cheap and to play it safe any beer I brew with a starting gravity of 1.070 or higher gets a pack and a half minimum.

The Merican Amber IPA thats fermenting right now in my basement got 2 packs it started at 1.086