Help me make a monster RIS.

[RonPopeil]

Never brewed anything darker than this amber i just made with some munich 10, c60 and c80. I have a lot of dark beer lovers asking for a monster stout. I'm thinking of doing one around now and bringing it out for the cold weather. Here's what I have. I have no clue on percentages for this style so help me out.

balanced water build. 8gals distilled with some cacl and gypsum.

75min boil

8# Marris Otter
4# Munich 10
2# Victory
2# Oats
2# Rye Malt
2# Roasted Barley
1.25# C80
1# Lactose
1# Smoke Malt
8oz Aromatic

Step mash 145/155 for 60/10.

2oz Chinook at 75
0.5oz Chinook at 20
0.5oz Chinook at FO

4L Starter WLP002

4 week primary 6-8 month secondary.

at 74% efficiency and 83% attenuation i have

OG: 1.106
FG:1.018
IBU: 60
SRM: 45
ABV: 10.8

 

[Itari]

no expert and never used, but ive read that 1 lb of smoke malt may be much

 

[johnsnownw]

If you don't have a way of oxygenating the wort withe pure o2, I would hold off...big beers need lots of o2.

I'm not going to comment specifically about your grain-bill, but I'd look at other recipes for inspiration.

If you're not aging the beer on anything, don't do a secondary...complete waste of time. It will secondary in a bottle just as well as a carboy.

 

[motorneuron]

This is a good start. But here are some quick thoughts:

grain bill:
*74% efficiency is highly optimistic for a beer that big, unless you know your process.
*2 lbs of victory is a lot.
*2 lbs of oats is also a lot.
*Why the rye? Hard for me to see that flavor is going to make it in when you have so much else going on.
*With the oats for mouthfeel and with such a huge beer, lactose is probably a mistake. You're likely to get a high FG and don't need any additional body/sweetness.
*Consider using both roasted barley and chocolate malt for a little more depth of flavor. You'll be missing some of the mid-dark flavors otherwise.
*Consider layering C60 and C120 instead of just pure C80. Special B also a good choice for caramel malt in this.
*Smoke malt is highly variable. 1 lb is probably not too much, but for some very potent kinds, it could be more than you want. Hard to give advice on that though.

Fermentation:
WLP002 is not likely to hit 83% attenuation with a beer this big. Just use American yeast. Alternative: pitch English yeast, then 36 or 48 hours into fermentation, pitch more yeast of an American variety to attenuate the wort.

Hops:
No hops other than the bittering hops are likely to make much of an impact when you have so much else going on, and especially for a beer that will age for a long time (or at least, SHOULD). No harm for the 20/flameout additions, but IMHO not much point either.

Good luck. There are many excellent threads on RISes; it's a very popular homebrew style. As long as you don't do something silly, they are a forgiving style (in the sense that it'll just taste dark, sweet, and delicious). But they're easy to mess up, especially the dreaded "help I'm stuck at 1.045" threads.

 

[619Brewer]

Here is the grain bill for my RIS that I add lactose in because I prefer the texture it provides.

17lbs Pale 2 Row
1.5lbs Roasted Barley
1lb Flaked Oats
12 oz Chocolate Malt
.5 lb Special B
.5 Black Patent Malt
1lb Lactose (15 minutes)
3oz Northern Brewer (10%AA) 60 minutes
2oz East Kent Goldings (5% AA) 15 minutes
WLP007 Dry English Ale Yeast (make a big starter ~3L)


I've brewed this several times now and it's my favorite Stout even among several commercially brews. Only exception is the Espresso RIS that Stone put out this last year...mmmm ridiculous.

If you want you can add cacao nibs, coffee, vanilla, all sorts of stuff to this to tweak the complexity. I prefer to just brew it this way with nothing else added, but it's up to you.

 

[RonPopeil]

Thanks for the help everyone. 619 has a decent looking template.

When i set out on this i was adding a bit of this and that and seeing what i ended up with. I agree that the smoke malt is probably not necessary. I think i'm going to cut the oats and victory by at least a pound each, cut the smoke malt completely and make up the difference in base malts. I'm thinking with those adjustments putting it on cacao nibs would be nice.

 

[MindenMan]

I agree with cutting out the smoked malt. There are three varieties I know of, one is the Alder wood smoked type- very light smoke, the Peat smoked type- very harsh aggressive smoked flavor, and the third one that I can't remember the name of it, but when you open the grain bin it smells like cigarette ashes.

Hey 619, how many gallons is that recipe for?, 22 pounds of grain is gigantic when wet.

 

[619Brewer]

I agree with cutting out the smoked malt. There are three varieties I know of, one is the Alder wood smoked type- very light smoke, the Peat smoked type- very harsh aggressive smoked flavor, and the third one that I can't remember the name of it, but when you open the grain bin it smells like cigarette ashes.

Hey 619, how many gallons is that recipe for?, 22 pounds of grain is gigantic when wet.

6 gallons.

 

[Brewmex41]

You can brew a session stout, around 5-6% abv, then brew and pitch a RIS straight on to the yeast cake. Should have no problems regarding yeast starter and oxygen if you do it that way and can probably finish a couple days quicker that way.
Maybe find a stout recipe, then imperialize that recipe.

 

[RonPopeil]

You can brew a session stout, around 5-6% abv, then brew and pitch a RIS straight on to the yeast cake. Should have no problems regarding yeast starter and oxygen if you do it that way and can probably finish a couple days quicker that way.
Maybe find a stout recipe, then imperialize that recipe.

two batches of stout is going to be way too much for this house. i'm the alpha consumer in the household with the occassional vagabond couch surfer cruising through. If something like this were to happen I'd have to age the big batch for almost a year. between the hoppy stuff, belgians and now lagers getting through some dark brews will be laborious.

 

[Brewmex41]

two batches of stout is going to be way too much for this house. i'm the alpha consumer in the household with the occassional vagabond couch surfer cruising through. If something like this were to happen I'd have to age the big batch for almost a year. between the hoppy stuff, belgians and now lagers getting through some dark brews will be laborious.

It was just a thought. Stouts can hang out longer than ipas so if it took you a year to drink thru the small stout your RIS would be amazingly conditioned and aged. But I can see your point, gotta brew what you like to drink.
Cheers!

 

[RonPopeil]

Thank you 619 for posting your recipe. I borrowed heavily from you sir. This is probably more authentically english than intended. 007 has been my house strain for the last year or so and will probably be used on this batch since attenuation is a concern. i'm in the process of switching my house english strain to 002.

Basically, i cut the Munich, Rye and smoke and filled in the difference with MO. swapped out the special B for a greater amount of C120. skipped black patent entirely. in my experience that super roasted ashy flavor is too much. I'm hopping with chinook on paper. might do magnum or something else smooth just to let it shine. the current plan is to let this secondary on cacao nibs and a little bit of sumatra coffee.

I'm hoping for an overblown, imperialized, version of sam smith's milk stout.

17# Marris Otter
1.5# Roasted Barley
1.25# Victory
1# Lactose
1# Oats
12oz C120
12oz Chocolate.

dough in at 1qt/# and hold~151F for 90 mins. add 2 gals to hit 170 for sparge and clear my dead space.

75min boil

2oz chinook @ 75
.5oz chinook @ 20

pitch on either 3L starter of wlp007 or a cake of 007 and primary for four weeks. bulk age for ~6-12 months. maybe pull it out for christmas.

 

[619Brewer]

Thank you 619 for posting your recipe. I borrowed heavily from you sir. This is probably more authentically english than intended. 007 has been my house strain for the last year or so and will probably be used on this batch since attenuation is a concern. i'm in the process of switching my house english strain to 002.

Basically, i cut the Munich, Rye and smoke and filled in the difference with MO. swapped out the special B for a greater amount of C120. skipped black patent entirely. in my experience that super roasted ashy flavor is too much. I'm hopping with chinook on paper. might do magnum or something else smooth just to let it shine. the current plan is to let this secondary on cacao nibs and a little bit of sumatra coffee.

I'm hoping for an overblown, imperialized, version of sam smith's milk stout.

17# Marris Otter
1.5# Roasted Barley
1.25# Victory
1# Lactose
1# Oats
12oz C120
12oz Chocolate.

dough in at 1qt/# and hold~151F for 90 mins. add 2 gals to hit 170 for sparge and clear my dead space.

75min boil

2oz chinook @ 75
.5oz chinook @ 20

pitch on either 3L starter of wlp007 or a cake of 007 and primary for four weeks. bulk age for ~6-12 months. maybe pull it out for christmas.

Glad I could help. Here's to your version turning out amazing!