Help me learn from this

[moosetav]

Today, after 30 some odd batches, I had my first dumper. It was a traditional roggenbier. I used wyeast 3068. I won't bother with the recipe etc. because after 1 month in the primary @ 67 degrees (liquid temp), I racked to a secondary and took a sample. It was delicious. Amazing in fact. I can honestly say it was the best beer I had done. Had the wonderful banana/clove flavors and aromas with a little bite from the rye. Could've sworn it was a commercial brew. I racked it to a carboy (I prefer to secondary all of my beers, don't want to start that debate) and let set in my closet for the past month and a half. It's been about 70-75 ambient but I didn't keep it in the swamp cooler b/c primary was finished and I didn't think it would matter. I finally kicked my IIPA and went to keg this evening. Drawed a sample and FG was 1.016, it was 1.018 when I racked it. Then the taste.....wine. Tasted just like a chardonnay. Smelled like chardonnay. Took another sample, chardonnay. Wife said the same thing. I was so disappointed. It wasn't undrinkable, but it sure didn't taste like beer. I'm not in to wine so after an hour of debate, I put on the bagpipe version of amazing grace and down the drain it went. I'm all for waiting it out, but compared to how it tasted before, I knew this one wasn't getting any better.

Now, after that's all been said, I saw no visible sign of infection, but I don't know what else it really could be. I can't figure this one out for certain. Needless to say, I'm pretty sad but I'm looking to rise from the ashes here. What went wrong?

 

[moosetav]

Also, I'm an all grain brewer.

 

[biochemedic]

I'm pretty sure chardonnay doesn't taste like Satan's anus, and the rule around here is you don't dump anything unless it tastes like that....

In all seriousness...was it at all acetic? Perhaps you had an acetobacter or pedicoccus infection...that could come across as winelike...

 

[Airborneguy]

Not common that an infection would completely take over the beer in only a month and a half.

Could your lines be dirty?

After disconnecting it from the keezer, did you taste it again to confirm before you dumped it?

 

[moosetav]

Well, it wasn't hooked up to the lines yet. I tasted the grav sample before closing up the keg. I then sealed it up and waited about an hour. I decided before I hooked it up to try another sample. I opened the keg and....wine. Didn't taste at all like beer. I would say it was lightly to moderately acetic. Do those bacteria strains usually form some sort of pelicle? Visually, nothing was out of the ordinary.

 

[Airborneguy]

How did you clean the keg before filling it? My question is why it happened so fast.

Any way you left something in the keg which might have done it?

 

[moosetav]

I usually clean my kegs with an oxiclean soak, push it through the lines, double rinse and rinse the lines, then starsan before racking. The thing is, I tasted it before I racked it to the keg. Then, after I moved it over, I tasted it again and it was the same. It was only in the keg for about an hour. The taste/smell didn't change in that time frame.

 

[Airborneguy]

I got it now. So it's definitely some type of infection. A pellicle is not "required", and one may have formed anyway if the batch was left to sit. It also may have formed and then dropped before you ever saw it.

As far as what sort of infection, I have no clue. Interesting that it tasted enough like a specific wine that you almost felt like you were drinking it.

 

[moosetav]

Yeah, had I been wearing a blindfold I would've guessed wine straight away. I'll redouble my sanitation efforts. Gonna re-brew this bad larry on Saturday as a tribute to our fallen comrade. Thanks.

 

[joel4482]

From what I read it looks like you let the beer sit at relatively high temperature 70-75 degrees for too long. (2.5 months) Some beers are better if you let them sit longer but not this kind. It should have been drunk within the 2.5 months. That type of yeast can give you some funky flavors if you leave it for too long.

 

[moosetav]

It was in a swamp cooler @ 67 for the first month. I wish I could've got it on tap quicker but I've been gone a lot lately and it took a while to kick the last keg. Do you guys normally worry about temps after primary? I never really have but I wonder if that my be an issue.

 

[moosetav]

I know this thread is a little old but I wanted to update. I rebrewed this beer with the same recipe, ferment temps, etc. This time it only sat around about 3 wks before going into the keg. I just pulled my first pint and it's great. Nose of a spicy hefe, fruitiness at the front, breadiness in the middle, and a slightly spicy sour finish. After some further research, I feel that I used too much rye. By drinking it young this time, I didn't give the rye a lot of time to produce the sourness that I perceived before. There is still a faint sourness, but that's a characteristic of the style. Last time it was incredibly overpowering. Next time I'm going to increase the barley content and reduce the rye. That way, if I don't have a keg immediately available, a little aging is going to have as much as of an effect. If you guys haven't tried it, it's a great alternative to a traditional hefe. Cheers.

 

[moosetav]

one last thing, since I kegged it so young, this was my first beer I didn't secondary. since it's made with hefe yeast, clarity isn't a concern.