help figuring out why a friends recipe tastes like ash

[Peyope]

Brewed last month.

Black imperial ipa

11 lb 2row
2 lb crystal 80
1 lb carafa I
1 lb chocolate malt

1 lb Belgian dark candi sugar
3 lb muntons dme

2 oz columbus 90 minute
2 oz Citra 15min
3 oz Citra 1min
2 oz magnum 1 min

3 oz nelson sauvin dry hopped 7 days

California ale yeast.
5 gallon batch

I don't see that grain bill producing the beer we have. As the beer sits it tastes like a real boozy ash tray. Even blending the beer with a light pale ale (50/50), the beer is still black. It tastes better blended, but the smokey ash flavor is still present.

What could cause this??? Is there a chance the home brew shop screwed up the grain bill and gave him black malt instead of chocolate?

 

[duboman]

Weyermann® CARAFA® Type 1 is a light-roasted specialty malt made from high-quality spring barley. It's carefully roasted to add an espresso-like bouquet, coffee and chocolate flavors, and a mild but noticeable roasted aftertaste

At 1 lb along with another lb of chocolate I would expect to taste quite roasted. As for boozy, that is most likely fusel alcohol possibly due to poor fermentation, stressed yeast. It mayo or may not condition out

 

[QuercusMax]

Do you know if you used Carafa, or Carafa Special (the de-husked version)? Regular carafa is very similar to chocolate malt, so if you put 2lbs of that, plus the dark candi sugar (which can also give burnt flavors), that may well explain it.

How much yeast did you use? Did you make a starter?

 

[Peyope]

I don't know if he used carafa or carafa special.

I think he double pitched, no starter. I'm sure he kept fermentation temps in check. The booze could just be coming from it being a big beer. The smokeyness is what perplexed me.

The smell is a kin to how your hands or shirt smells after smoking a cigarette, but more intense. When diluted 50% the flavors aren't as harsh and more discernable but I didn't pick up on really any coffee or chocolate.

It's not fully carbed yet. Not a dumper but probably will need to blend.

 

[QuercusMax]

What was the OG/FG? Kegged or bottled? How long since it was brewed?

It might just need some time to age.

 

[agrazela]

Also interested in the gravity numbers.

You've got nearly stout-like levels of dark malts in there, I'd say you're a good 3-4x as much dark malts as you'd want if the primary thing you wanted out of them was color for an IPA / IIPA. So between all that dark malt, likely high alcohol / low FG, and all those bittering hops, I'm not surprised you got a roasty-bomb.

 

[rmyurick]

never seen Magnum used as a finishing hop before.

 

[Peyope]

never seen Magnum used as a finishing hop before.

Me either.

Not sure on the exact og. Thought he said it was around 1.089, when he transfered FG was 1.018. Not sure where he got the recipe.

 

[QuercusMax]

I've used magnum as a finishing hop before, and agree with Drew Beechum that it is good if you want a nice nondescript hop character.

 

[Snicklefritz]

Is he an electric brewer? I had some hops burn onto my element before causing the ash tray flavor you are describing.

 

[wardens355]

I would say way too much dark, roasty grains, especially if it was Carafa I and not Carafa Special I. I would call this a hoppy stout. Why was the dark candi sugar added? It is possible the local home brew shop substituted a different dark grain for something they didn't have, but they will usually tell you if they do that. I would have probably used Carafa Special and cut the dark grains in half and cold steeped them to mainly extract color only. That would yield a 33 SRM, which is in the stout range, without the harsh flavors of the dark grains. At this point, maybe you should just bottle and cellar and see how it ages. Maybe it'll be an interesting stout that ages some of the harshness out.

 

[McGarnigle]

The Candi Sugar is to blame.

Just kidding. Given everything else that's going on, the Candi Sugar isn't adding anything that table sugar wouldn't have.

That's definitely a beer that will benefit from some mellowing.

 

[brokebucket]

Am I crazy or is this beer just insane over the top in everything? I plugged it in to beersmith for my own knowledge to see what was going on....OG of 1.107, IBU 162, SRM 55 (for a 5 gallon batch). I have also never heard of a recipe using 2 lbs crystal 80.

 

[phug]

I've heard on one of the beersmith podcasts, that Chocolate malt needs to be renamed, as it doesn't actually produce the chocolatey flavours, but rather that the flavours produced by chocolate malt are more like that of very dark, bitter greasysppon diner coffee.

We discuss why there are not many malts made in the range of 100-350L color, largely because they have a poor flavor (cigarette ash)
He also explains why Chocolate malt really does not add a chocolate flavor – but has an acrid flavor to it if overused

Malted Grains for Beer Brewing with Randy Mosher – BeerSmith Podcast #81

 

[GrogNerd]

Is he an electric brewer? I had some hops burn onto my element before causing the ash tray flavor you are describing.

I'd have to agree.

had a local brewery who had many complaints about its brews tasting like an ash tray and it turned out to be scorched wort

 

[wardens355]

Am I crazy or is this beer just insane over the top in everything? I plugged it in to beersmith for my own knowledge to see what was going on....OG of 1.107, IBU 162, SRM 55 (for a 5 gallon batch). I have also never heard of a recipe using 2 lbs crystal 80.

You are not crazy.

 

[fuzzy2133]

Am I crazy or is this beer just insane over the top in everything? I plugged it in to beersmith for my own knowledge to see what was going on....OG of 1.107, IBU 162, SRM 55 (for a 5 gallon batch). I have also never heard of a recipe using 2 lbs crystal 80.

Its called home brewing, most of the time we are over the top and not crazy.

 

[GrogNerd]

Am I crazy or is this beer just insane over the top in everything?

why do you presume the two are mutually exclusive?

 

[brokebucket]

You are not crazy.

Yay me!

 

[Peyope]

Not an electric brewer. It was the first time using a keg as a mash tun for him. I thought initially the flavor came from him using his burner to maintain mash temp, but he didn't.

The post about the chocolate malt is intriguing.

 

[Peyope]

update on this beer. Much better after sitting. Tastes and smells similar to lagunitas Night Time.