Help, Dear People, help

[Mr29]

I am making "wine" for the first time and am getting concerned at the extreme speed of what I assume - and hope - is fermentation. The purpose is to make something I can then distill, although I am looking forward to drinking a bit at the wine stage. Just to be clear, I have told the authorities, and they are officially "relaxed" about it. I wish they took the same approach to my tax paying.

I am 36 hours into fermentation and it has gone completely bananas. The airlock is in continuous motion, the pulp is rising and I keep having to skim off some of it. There is a strong smell of alcohol in the air, which is a source of joy and reassurance. But what to do?

OK, accepting that any experienced home brewer reading this will be horrified and incredulous at my ignorance, this is what I did:

I washed, stoned and blended (keeping the skins) plums, apricots, peaches, nectarines, berries and bananas to yield 10kg of fruit. I boiled this up with 4kg of sugar dissolved in boiling water, let it cool, added a sachet of Connoisseur's Choice Wine Yeast HA1001 to a bowlful and left that overnight. The next morning I added this back to the mother brew, put it into a 20l fermentation bucket, added lukewarm water to bring the volume to 20 l., and sat back. The airlock started bubbling within 30 minutes.

That was 36 hours ago, and as I said, it has gone nuts.

The mixture is about half pulp, and it expands dramatically. The bucket has a capacity of 23 l. and I have twice had to remove around 3 l. of pulp from the top to keep the lid from being pushed off. About 4/5 times a day I stir the mixture thoroughly.

I have been anal about sterilising everything. Oh, and added 200g of concentrated tomato paste as a yeast feed. That's it. I was following a recipe from a distilling website.

I am considering putting the pulp through a sieve, to reduce volume, rather than skimming more. Should I?

Is this manic, insane bubbling normal? Will I actually get an alcohol containing product out of this? Can something ferment so quickly? Have I accidentally discovered a short route to a high alcohol brew? Taste, at this stage, is not my primary concern, although it smells great.

Apologising for my shameful ignorance, I seek reassurance and enlightenment from one of you experienced people, and thank in advance anyone kind enough to offer advice.

 

[Mismost]

Wow....that's quite a recipe....have never heard of using tomato paste before although I have heard of tomato wine.

I don't know what you are making, but it sounds normal....the yeast put off a lot of gas, co2....that pushes up the fruit or in your case a lot of blended up pulp/skins...the more liquid stuff is down at the bottom, opposite of what you may think.....so, punch that fruit/pulp/skin cap back down into the must a couple of times a day.

Now as the process slows down and finishes up the co2 gas escapes and the pulp will settle to the bottom with sno co2 to float it up. However, I predicte you will have a huge amount trub/sludge to deal with and your end wine product is going to be very cloudy for a long time. I have no idea how that will affect the distilling part of your plan.

Gotta say, I like that you know what you want and just dived right into the deep end of the pool! Keep us posted on how this works out, please.

 

[treacheroustexan]

I don't know if this is technically wine or distilling talk, but heads up not allowed to discuss distilling on here.

 

[max384]

I am making "wine" for the first time and am getting concerned at the extreme speed of what I assume - and hope - is fermentation. The purpose is to make something I can then distill, although I am looking forward to drinking a bit at the wine stage. Just to be clear, I have told the authorities, and they are officially "relaxed" about it. I wish they took the same approach to my tax paying.

Just to be clear, if you're located in the United States, don't distill this. I repeat. Do not distill this. Distilling is a felony in the United States. Many people do it and get away with it...

However, not many people alert the authorities beforehand! I cannot overstate how stupid it is to tell the authorities that you are going to commit a felony before doing it. They may say that they are "relaxed" about it... But that means nothing. Zero. I am actually quite dumbfounded by this. You seriously can't be so naive as to trust authorities to be relaxed about a felony that you alerted them of before going through with it...

I don't mean to come across as an a**hole about this on your first post here, but you really need to step back and look at this from a different point of view. What you are doing is illegal, and you've broadcast what you're doing to the local authorities.

 

[treacheroustexan]

He's talking in liters and grams. I assure you, he's not in the US. Relax about that crap.

It's in the forum rules though that no distilling discussion is allowed. I'm sure regardless where he is its still being discussed on a site based out of the US. Not trying to be an a hole just saying. Not trying to be mr. moderator but wanted the OP to know.

 

[Mr29]

Especially to Mismost who directly addressed the issues.

Re the whole distilling thing, let me apologise. I live in England and it's not a criminal issue. I am hoping to set up a business later this year making drinks from local produce, to include wines and spirits, and this first "wine" is an experiment. While HMRC (Her Majesty's Revenue and Customs) are quite ferocious about collecting taxes (I quite understand your own reservations about this, 200 odd years ago) they were "relaxed" (their word) when I called them to ask whether I could experiment without getting a licence. "Not too much and don't sell it". A rather unusual example of common sense from a government department, although I hope your lot don't try to extradite me now.

And I only talked about distilling this batch as I thought it would be revolting, being made as it is from ageing fruit I scrounged from a green grocer and by someone who hasn't got a clue. However, incredibly, it smells wonderful and I promise you (please note, ATF, FBI, etc.) that I shall drink it as wine.

OK, Sitrep: We are 72 hours into fermentation. The pulp has got a lot finer and now only takes up the top fifth by volume, rather than around half, as at the beginning. A delicious, fruity alcohol aroma fills the house with promise and me with joy, although, curiously, my wife doesn't entirely share my enthusiasm.

It still bubbles almost continuously, but a little less manically. The warmest I can make the room is 21C (69.8F), using an oil heater. When I switch it off the temperature quickly falls to 12-15C (53-59F). This has no noticeable effect on the bubbling.

When I take the top off to stir the pulp back in, which I now do around 6 times a day, a very strong alcohol smell indeed hits me. This yeast is supposed to work until 18% abv.

If I understand the theory correctly, the fermentation will cease when the alcohol kills the yeast, and this will be apparent when the bubbling stops. At which point, so Mismost (thanks), the pulp will sink. Then gravity or some form of filtration should result in a life-enhancing, if somewhat sweet and cloudy, elixir.

Because of the pulp and froth I cannot get an accurate hydrometer reading. It seems to be around 1.010. If I float the hydrometer in a bit of the mix in a trial jar, can I then pour it back in, having sterilised the hydrometer and jar? I am mourning the litres of pulp I threw away during my initial panic.

Is there anything else I should be doing? I take it I need to wait for the end of fermentation before tasting it? As I don't want to wait for gravity and don't mind a bit of cloudiness, what sort of filtration should I employ? What should I do when it stops bubbling and how do I stop it going off?

As before, intense gratitude for your help and apologies for my ignorance.

 

[BrerRabbitBrew]

You don't have to wait until the end of fermentation to taste it though I suppose it's wise. I like to taste my wines throughout fermentation and aging so I can get an idea of how it changes from sweet to dry and what not. As for filtration, time is the best. Let it sit until it's stopped bubbling for a few days and then rack into sanitized fermenter and let it sit a couple months or until the lees (crud on the bottom) is about a quarter inch thick and then rack again. Most wines will clear up beautifully in a month or two.

 

[Mr29]

Thanks.
After about 96 hours of manic fermentation it seems to be coming to an end. It's now bubbling occasionally and getting slower.
The layer of pulp has reduced to about two inches, still floating on the top. Should I not filter this out? My concern is that it will rot. At the moment I am still mixing it back in 3 to 4 times a day. If I am to put it into a sanitised fermenter, should I not pour it through a net sieve, and then squeeze the wine out of the pulp, before letting it settle?
Thanks again.

 

[jensmith]

Thanks.
After about 96 hours of manic fermentation it seems to be coming to an end. It's now bubbling occasionally and getting slower.
The layer of pulp has reduced to about two inches, still floating on the top. Should I not filter this out? My concern is that it will rot. At the moment I am still mixing it back in 3 to 4 times a day. If I am to put it into a sanitised fermenter, should I not pour it through a net sieve, and then squeeze the wine out of the pulp, before letting it settle?
Thanks again.

You will want to take out all the pulp before racking to a clean carboy. Most of us bag the fruit from the start so all we have to do is take out the bag. Way easier! Since yours is loose you will have to strain out the pulp. Most people take out the fruit after the sg has droped below 1.020. I like to wait untill 1.000, you can do it either way. Usually between 5-8 days.
What is your current sg reading?

 

[Mr29]

What a clever idea! I mean bagging the fruit at the beginning.
There was still a little bubbling going on so, after removing 2.5 l. for sampling purposes, I added another kilo of sugar dissolved in about a litre of boiling water and added it to the mix, after which it restarted regular bubbling.
It's bit hard to get an accurate SG reading, because of the pulp. I took a bit of the clearest mix I could get and put it into a tube. Current reading is around 1.010, but the temperature is 26C, instead of the 20C the hydrometer demands. I'm going to let it cool to get a better result. I assume there is some sort of mathematical formula to deal with the temperature difference, but it's beyond my tired brain right now.
So now might be good moment to strain? It tastes a bit sweeter than it did before and is still bubbling along.
Would adding more yeast speed it up?
As always, heartfelt gratitude for your shared wisdom.

 

[jensmith]

What a clever idea! I mean bagging the fruit at the beginning.
There was still a little bubbling going on so, after removing 2.5 l. for sampling purposes, I added another kilo of sugar dissolved in about a litre of boiling water and added it to the mix, after which it restarted regular bubbling.
It's bit hard to get an accurate SG reading, because of the pulp. I took a bit of the clearest mix I could get and put it into a tube. Current reading is around 1.010, but the temperature is 26C, instead of the 20C the hydrometer demands. I'm going to let it cool to get a better result. I assume there is some sort of mathematical formula to deal with the temperature difference, but it's beyond my tired brain right now.
So now might be good moment to strain? It tastes a bit sweeter than it did before and is still bubbling along.
Would adding more yeast speed it up?
As always, heartfelt gratitude for your shared wisdom.

No to adding more yeast. It will not help.

Yes there is a math formula for temp difference. It is written on the instruction sheet. I usually don't bother. Especially at this point. The difference is small.

Yes. Strain it now while it is still fermenting. After its done, the air the wine will be exposed to during straining can be harmfull. You don't have to rack it over now, but you can. Personal preference.
Enjoy!