Hefeweizen: Step Mash?

[devils4ever]

I normally brew British ales, but I need to brew a Hefeweizen for a friend's party. So, I ordered the Bavarian Hefeweizen kit from Northern Brewer. The mash schedule included with the kit shows a step mash schedule as the first option. Is this necessary? I can easily do this, but will it make a better beer?

 

[janivar123]

Nessesary nope
Cant say if the beer will get better tho sinse i didnt think to try it...

 

[zgoda]

To get all this classy clove aroma - yes, you have to mash with ferulic acid rest at 107F (at least 40 mins to get two-fold increase of aroma intensity).

 

[devils4ever]

To get all this classy clove aroma - yes, you have to mash with ferulic acid rest at 107F (at least 40 mins to get two-fold increase of aroma intensity).

I think the directions are to do a 122F rest and then a 149F and 158F rest.

 

[GuldTuborg]

According to "Brewing with Wheat," even 15-20 minutes at (ferulic) acid rest temps will give a very significant increase to the clove phenol precursors. A short protein rest (122 or so) may help with a longer lasting cloudiness, if that's something you desire, but it's not necessary with a well modified malt.

 

[emjay]

According to "Brewing with Wheat," even 15-20 minutes at (ferulic) acid rest temps will give a very significant increase to the clove phenol precursors. A short protein rest (122 or so) may help with a longer lasting cloudiness, if that's something you desire, but it's not necessary with a well modified malt.

Is there a way to promote banana other than ferm temps?

 

[dwarven_stout]

Is there a way to promote other than ferm temps?

Those are mash temps.

Most hefe yeasts can be pushed more to one end or the other of banana/clove with ferment temps, too. Colder for clove and warmer for banana, with ~64-66 being a good balance in my experience.

 

[lumpher]

step mashes help on all grain as they help prevent stuck mashes. a primarily wheat recipe will get stuck bigtime

 

[emjay]

Those are mash temps.

Most hefe yeasts can be pushed more to one end or the other of banana/clove with ferment temps, too. Colder for clove and warmer for banana, with ~64-66 being a good balance in my experience.

I'm aware those are mash temps, and also aware that you can promote banana by fermenting warmer, which is why I was asking if there's an additional way

 

[emjay]

a primarily wheat recipe will get stuck bigtime

Not always... I made a single-step Berliner Weisse using 2/3rds wheat, 1/3rd pilsner, and had no issues.

 

[dwarven_stout]

I'm aware those are mash temps, and also aware that you can promote banana by fermenting warmer, which is why I was asking if there's an additional way

Mm. Your post sounded like you were about to go ferment a hefe at 106 degrees, and I wanted to stop that from happening.

Step mashing and ferm temps are the only techniques that I personally have run across to get more of either banana or clove, but that doesn't mean there isn't something else. I'd be interested in learning... I just did a hefe yesterday and plan to do two more this weekend.


...and yeah, for anyone batch sparging in a cooler like I do, stuck mashes are virtually a phantom bogeyman. I guess I haven't tried 100% malt oats, but 70% wheat in one beer and 50% rye in another with no rice hulls gave me no trouble.

 

[GuldTuborg]

Is there a way to promote other than ferm temps?

I'm not trying to be difficult, I just don't follow you. Is there a way to promote what, exactly?

I guess I haven't tried 100% malt oats, but 70% wheat in one beer and 50% rye in another with no rice hulls gave me no trouble.

Malted oats have husks, so you'd be fine with that.

I'm impressed that you got up to 70% wheat with no problems running off. I can't say I've tried more than 25-30% rye or wheat without rice hulls. Was it even slow to run off, or did you see no meaningful difference at all draining the tun?

 

[drmario47]

What kind of equipment are you using? If it's a cooler mash tun I recommend mash in at 122 then boil up more water and raise to 153. Then proceed with lauter. I did this for my last batch and made a great hefe. If not step try decoction, hell imm doin a decoction hefewiezen tomorrow. Happy brewing

 

[emjay]

I'm not trying to be difficult, I just don't follow you. Is there a way to promote what, exactly?

Jerk!

Just kidding, of course you're not being difficult. I somehow skipped the most important word in the sentence - banana! As in, is there a way to promote banana flavor OTHER than with ferm temps?

 

[milldoggy]

I did a hefe with a 15 min step at 122, then 60 at 152. Tapped it last night and man is it good! Very similar to a Bavarian wheat(like Franziskoner). The color is dead on and the cloudyness is pretty close. I am going to stick with a 2 step.

 

[remilard]

Is there a way to promote banana other than ferm temps?

Add glucose to the wort, like 5-10%.

 

[emjay]

Add glucose to the wort, like 5-10%.

That's definitely never added banana before...

 

[GuldTuborg]

banana! As in, is there a way to promote banana flavor OTHER than with ferm temps?

That's a bit more difficult. I honestly don't know. I'd look into getting the right strain and hitting the right fermentation temps. Some strains seem to favor certain flavors. I forget which one throws off the most banana, but it shouldn't be tough to find out which is which.

Or you could ask the real expert, this guy:

I wish he'd stop that stupid dance and answer our question, though.

 

[headfullahops]

I just 10 minutes ago kegged a hefe that I brewed with a single decoction mash:

1) Mash in at 130˚F for protein degradation rest for 15 minutes
2) Infuse to 152˚F saccrification rest for 45 minutes
3) Decoct and boil for 10 minutes then return to mash
4) Rest for 10 minute mash-out at 170˚F

Then I fly sparged and lautered as normal. The grist was 60% wheat malt so I used a lb of rice hulls on the suggestion from my LHBS, although, I don't think I will use them next time I do this brew. I hit my targets right on... 1.052 OG for 6 gallons at the end of a 90 minute boil.

I fermented in my basement which, here in Michigan, when I pitched and brought the carboy down was at 63˚-64˚F. Then the weather turned all November and four days later I looked and it was 52˚ down there! It was fermenting away like crazy despite the cooler temps so I took a sample for gravity readings when the kreusen fell and it was under-attenuated at 1.019 SG. To try to help the yeast finish out their ferment, I brought the carboy upstairs where it is 72˚ almost constantly. Fairly steady activity in the airlock after that and when I kegged her today, she was at the target 1.011 TG!

As far as the flavor, I can tell that this is going to taste IDENTICAL to the Weihenstephan Hefe Weissbier I was trying to mimic. Got it in the fridge on the gas as I type. I can't say that the step/decoction mash had any positive or negative effects on the brew. I will know all about it when it's carbed and at serving temp. I do know that it is perfectly cloudy and the flavor profile is dead nuts - spicy clove with a hint of banana and well attenuated and fairly dry.

On the Jamil Show podcast, JZ recommends a ferment temp cooler than intuition would suggest. He suggests in the 62˚-63˚F range for the bulk of fermentation. I obviously don't have any control over the ferment temp in my brewery, but I will say that Wyeast 3068 Weihenstephan Weizen yeast is THE ONLY Bavarian hefe yeast to use.

 

[devils4ever]

I did the Hefeweizen this morning with the mash temps of 122F, 149F, and 158F with a mashout at 170F. I mash in a SS pot so adding heat is easy. Time will tell how this turns out. I did notice the wheat malt seemed finer than barley malt. However, I didn't have any additional difficulties with the lautering. I'll update everyone how this tastes when I give this a try in about a month!

 

[emjay]

As far as the flavor, I can tell that this is going to taste IDENTICAL to the Weihenstephan Hefe Weissbier I was trying to mimic. Got it in the fridge on the gas as I type. I can't say that the step/decoction mash had any positive or negative effects on the brew. I will know all about it when it's carbed and at serving temp. I do know that it is perfectly cloudy and the flavor profile is dead nuts - spicy clove with a hint of banana and well attenuated and fairly dry.

On the Jamil Show podcast, JZ recommends a ferment temp cooler than intuition would suggest. He suggests in the 62˚-63˚F range for the bulk of fermentation. I obviously don't have any control over the ferment temp in my brewery, but I will say that Wyeast 3068 Weihenstephan Weizen yeast is THE ONLY Bavarian hefe yeast to use.

Hmmm, I guess I might have to disagree by default if it tastes exactly like Weihenstephan Hefe Weissbier, as I'm not particularly a fan of it. The flavors that make weizen such an interesting style are just way too subtle for my liking in that particular beer.

 

[remilard]

That's definitely never added banana before...

Yes it definitely has. Don't take my word for it though.

http://www.brainofbrewers.com/pdf/Wheat_beers_-_Michae_Eder.pdf

 

[emjay]

Yes it definitely has. Don't take my word for it though.

http://www.brainofbrewers.com/pdf/Wheat_beers_-_Michae_Eder.pdf

Sorry, I meant for myself Not noticeably, anyways.

But thanks a ton for the link!

 

[wardenwheat]

This is an informative thread about ester and phenolic flavors.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f163/best-yeast-bubblegum-banana-flavors-242958/

 

[doctorRobert]

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f36/br...ve-banana-aroma-may-june-2010-zymurgy-174599/

 

[ckelly999]

I did the Hefeweizen this morning with the mash temps of 122F, 149F, and 158F with a mashout at 170F.

Question: for the mashout, can you sparge with 170F water right from the rest, or should you infuse to 170F, THEN sparge?

 

[Bassman2003]

I would say infuse to 170 then sparge. The idea is to get the entire mash up to 170 so the liquid is thinner for a more productive sparge.