Hefe - Yeast in Stouts

[brennanj11]

I'm looking to get some reactions or experiences from brewers who have used German Hefe Yeast in a Stout-like beer. Basically any beer with a roasted malt character.
I see Dunkel Weisse recipes are incorporating munich for complexity and Carafa for dark coloring.

I'm looking to explore integrating the prime ester flavor of Hefe yeast - Banana with other common stout flavors (chocolate, coffee, vanilla, burnt sugar..)

Thanks!

 

[dyqik]

I haven't tried any of this, but banana/chocolate/dark caramel sounds interesting. Banana/coffee is a no-no to me though.

Clove/coffee on the other hand could be very good. Particularly with cardamom added for a "Turkish coffee stout".

 

[brennanj11]

I just had the idea after my daily breakfast banana and coffee .
I'm sure there are other brewers out there doing this, but on initial research... I'm not seeing much info

 

[dyqik]

Have you tried Wells' Banana Bread beer? It's a UK ale that's sometimes to be found in the US in bottles. It's closer to an ESB, with a strong banana ester taste, than to a stout though.

Personally, I really don't like it, but it's maybe a useful warning/hint about caramel malt and banana esters.

 

[Beerswimmer]

I've always wanted to brew up a Belgian quad recipe and pitch WLP3068 to see what it's like.

Do it!!

 

[mattdee1]

I've tried "Belgian Stouts" that use phenol-throwing yeast and it's... OK, I guess. Not the same thing as you're asking about, I understand, but still kind of instructive nonetheless. I'd file this sort of thing under "neato, but one is enough, thanks." In other words, I would not want to be sitting on 5-10gal of such a beer.

Have you tried Wells' Banana Bread beer? It's a UK ale that's sometimes to be found in the US in bottles. It's closer to an ESB, with a strong banana ester taste, than to a stout though.

Personally, I really don't like it, but it's maybe a useful warning/hint about caramel malt and banana esters.

If that beer is the one I'm thinking of, then I think it's dreadful, personally. And I'm pretty sure it is flavored using some kind of additive/extract.

 

[dyqik]

If that beer is the one I'm thinking of, then I think it's dreadful, personally. And I'm pretty sure it is flavored using some kind of additive/extract.

I think it is flavored, but I think it's also a valid warning of too much banana yeast flavor with amber/darker beers.

 

[10_degrees_play-doh]

The only way to know is to try it! If it's the esters you're going for, that might lend to a more sweet stout, though with a low-floc yeast you're going to get pretty high attenuation. Also, I'm not sure if it's a wheat thing or a residual yeast thing, but most hefeweizens don't taste quite right without a high carbonation level... On the other hand, carbonated normally, might it add to the body? On a related note, I brewed a stout once with a Belgian Abbey (can't remember the strain off-hand) yeast that I think came out pretty tasty, however the ester/phenol character was a pretty muted so it's hard to say if it really added much.

 

[jfolks]

I did it once. It wasn't very good (the yeast clashes with the roast IMO)

 

[brennanj11]

Thanks for the comments guys, I'm thinking of chalking this up to a great food idea that should stay with food. I am seeing coffee shops in brooklyn serve a banana latte. Where you blend bananas into the milk froth mixture and add to coffee. Those are nice flavors.
Not sure if melding that into a respectable beer is entirely possible...
Sounds like the issue would be the sweet estery banana-yeast profile clashing with potential acrid bitterness of roasted malt.

 

[dyqik]

Yeah, that's a risk. A caramel or even honey malt heavy base might work, as a banoffee pie Scottish heavy or similar.

 

[jmcquesten]

I've tried "Belgian Stouts" that use phenol-throwing yeast and it's... OK, I guess. Not the same thing as you're asking about, I understand, but still kind of instructive nonetheless. I'd file this sort of thing under "neato, but one is enough, thanks." In other words, I would not want to be sitting on 5-10gal of such a beer.

I don't know, I made a 'Belgian stout' and I really liked. It kinda came out like a tropical stout, but that's with a belgish yeast.

I don't know that I'd ever try it with a hefeweizen yeast though.

 

[mattdee1]

I don't know, I made a 'Belgian stout' and I really liked. It kinda came out like a tropical stout, but that's with a belgish yeast.

De gustibus non est disputandum I suppose.

 

[filthyastronaut]

What about a Dunkelweizen? Maybe just up the roast more than the average?

 

[schvabac]

I did something similar and really liked it.

For base malts I used pils and wheat 50-50, and added cara120, amber and specail B (about 6% each). To get color, I used carafa special type III, but did not used it in mash. Instead, I steeped it in cold water for 24 hours and put that in last 10 min of boil.
And I tried to ferment it to get as much banana as possible. (underpitch, no aeriation, high temperature). Beer was very tasty: caramel, slight coffee and chocolate, with lots of banana. I liked it very much.

 

[Chrispy92]

I tried this with a wheat base and midnight wheat to add the roastyness and create a big black banana hefe stout. Or at least I thought it would work.... Unfortunately the roast completely overpowers the esters and little banana came through, more sort of a weird clash of flavours that didn't work. If j were to do it again j would go with a darker dunkel, not using anything with harsh roast so perhaps getting the color with Carafa and dark crystal could work better....

 

[mirthfuldragon]

I have went the other way - a hoppy pale wheat with 3068 hefe yeast, at 54 IBU - and the hops covered 95% of the banana. I fermented a straight hefe at the same temperature (70-71° F) and it came out all banana and no clove. To the extent the flavors do not clash (which is a strong possibility), I would be concerned that the heavier flavors are going to obscure all the banana esters in the first place.