Heady Topper- Can you clone it?

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Saying any beer tastes like a Belgian is like saying any car drives like an American car. There are too many Belgian styles and varieties within Belgian styles for any beer to be blanket Belgian. Fruity and spicy notes apply to a lot of beer styles. Plus they could just as easily be coming from the hops as opposed to the yeast.
 
trboyden said:
Saying any beer tastes like a Belgian is like saying any car drives like an American car. There are too many Belgian styles and varieties within Belgian styles for any beer to be blanket Belgian. Fruity and spicy notes apply to a lot of beer styles. Plus they could just as easily be coming from the hops as opposed to the yeast.
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I disagree - they all have variations and of course there are exceptions but IMO Belgian yeast is one of the most easily identifiable and is a fairly accurate descriptor
 
I came here to say I love v4 and think it's close to the real thing. Will be brewing again when I get enough hops.

I've also brewed the BYO clone and although good, not enough hops and not that close to the real thing.

As far a conan yeast being belgian, not in my experience. Fruity and peachy above 67/68f but belgian. Brewed 4 times with it. Both from culturing a can and from ecy.
 
terrapinj said:
I disagree - they all have variations and of course there are exceptions but IMO Belgian yeast is one of the most easily identifiable and is a fairly accurate descriptor
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I have to agree with this. So often myself or other drinkers (with respectable palletes) will say 'distinct Belgian quality'.

Er... Belgium quality. ..

I fermented a little warmer the second time I brewed this, and although I can't call it a Belgian quality, it definitely wasn't the beautiful clean peach/apricot hop bomb as the previous batch.
 
For the "belgian" "Belgium" nit pickers..

It's pretty much stated in most discussion circles that people have gotten the clove like, spicy phenols to kick with this yeast.

I got it in a batch and it wasn't from the hops. Amarillo and Citra don't taste like clove, or spice. This yeast can ruin a batch fast if you aren't sure of what you are doing.
 
FATC1TY said:
For the "belgian" "Belgium" nit pickers.. It's pretty much stated in most discussion circles that people have gotten the clove like, spicy phenols to kick with this yeast. I got it in a batch and it wasn't from the hops. Amarillo and Citra don't taste like clove, or spice. This yeast can ruin a batch fast if you aren't sure of what you are doing.
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Almost sounds more German by that description
 
Without trying to be facetious, regardless of what others may say, I don't get any Belgian notes in Heady (I'm not a big fan of Belgian yeast but I love Heady Topper).

I'm fortunate enough to be able to drive a few short hours to the Alchemist (well, that's another story now) and pick up Heady 'regularly'. Sucked down the last of 2 cases just recently (I was there on the last canning day they were selling out of the Alchemist).
 
Eustace said:
Without trying to be facetious, regardless of what others may say, I don't get any Belgian notes in Heady (I'm not a big fan of Belgian yeast but I love Heady Topper).

I'm fortunate enough to be able to drive a few short hours to the Alchemist (well, that's another story now) and pick up Heady 'regularly'. Sucked down the last of 2 cases just recently (I was there on the last canning day they were selling out of the Alchemist).
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I believe the point being made about the belgian notes had to do with fermentation temp being to high. As fermenting different yeasts at higher/lower temperatures can give off very different flavors. I noticed it when I stepped up dregs from 2 cans this summer at room temperature personally. When I actually brewed, and kept the temp down, it was more peachy. Damn close! They must ferment at lower temps. It's mentioned on the first page here.
Glad you have access to cases of it. I know I'm jealous!
 
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My wife came back from a business trip to Burlington. The store she got the case from sold out in a couple hours of receiving. She had to scrounge some other stores for the 9 others. Needless to say I love my wife!
 
I'm treating them like an Advent calendar and drinking one a night and whatever is left is for New Years. First three were awesome as usual.
 
Definitely jealous. I got to share one at a beer tasting and craved more. I am going to have to take a trip up to VT and see if I can stop by for some.
 
Did the HT clone again. 3 gallons at exactly 60% of the boil hops for the 4.0 5 gallon recipe (used 1/2 oz CTZ and 1/2 oz Apollo for the 90 minute addition). My landlord foil taped up the heat ducts yesterday so hopefully my temperature will stay under 68* and this Heady clone won't go Belgian.
 
anyone on LI have a can they can part with? i'll pay the premium (within reason).. truth be told.. i just want to see what the hype is about.
 
ilikeguns said:
anyone on LI have a can they can part with? i'll pay the premium (within reason).. truth be told.. i just want to see what the hype is about.
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They have it at bobbique in patchogue and I think the tap room has some as well, give them a call.
 
I recently brewed an APA with Conan stepped up from 2 cans of HT. The target was a 5.5% hop-forward pale ale, with Conan accentuating the fruity nature of the hops we were using. We fermented at 66*.

What we got was a strange beast that had unexpected spicy/clovey tastes. It wasn't what were looking for, and I couldn't put my finger on exactly what was different... until we shared with a friend who said, "This is a great saison."

Could it be that in lower-ABV beers, the yeast character becomes TOO present? Perhaps at 8% the yeast can play a background role, but at, say, less than 6% it become foreground?
 
I had a thought about this last week as I made a 1 gallon starter with Conan, and while I kept the temperature under 68* the whole time, the beer did have a weird slightly sour taste. I used that yeast with 5 beers I brewed on Thursday and one of them is a 1.028 OG light IPA. All the other beers range from 1.048-1.071 (Heady clone), so I'm going to pay close attention to the differences between them that I think might come from the yeast. So far the temperature hasn't gone above 66* so hopefully that will be consistent.
 
Coopertown said:
I recently brewed an APA with Conan stepped up from 2 cans of HT. The target was a 5.5% hop-forward pale ale, with Conan accentuating the fruity nature of the hops we were using. We fermented at 66*.
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ianmatth said:
I had a thought about this last week as I made a 1 gallon starter with Conan, and while I kept the temperature under 68* the whole time, the beer did have a weird slightly sour taste. I used that yeast with 5 beers I brewed on Thursday and one of them is a 1.028 OG light IPA. All the other beers range from 1.048-1.071 (Heady clone), so I'm going to pay close attention to the differences between them that I think might come from the yeast. So far the temperature hasn't gone above 66* so hopefully that will be consistent.
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Are you guys talking ambient temperatures? I've too noticed these things, but only on starters with high fermentation temps, like 70s. If you don't have a chamber, ambient should be somewhere in the 50s during high krausen for a 5 gallon batch
 
ja09 said:
Are you guys talking ambient temperatures? I've too noticed these things, but only on starters with high fermentation temps, like 70s. If you don't have a chamber, ambient should be somewhere in the 50s during high krausen for a 5 gallon batch
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I would assume they have LCD thermometers on their carboys as they come in many kits. However, the outside temp can be a few degrees lower than the inside temp on a fermenter. There was a technical article in BYO about it sometime in the last two years.
 
LCD thermometer for me. Maybe what some have been explaining and experiencing as peachy flavors I am experiencing as a slightly sour flavor. For example some hops are explained as a grapefruit or lime flavor, and I would consider that a cross between citrus and sour (as no hop ever tasted like a grapefruit to me.) In fact I think most Southern Hemisphere hops have some kind of sour flavor. In regard to using Conan with Heady Topper, it has so many flame out, aroma steep, and dry hop additions, plus it is 1.073 OG with a definitive malt, so it may be that it stomps out what I would consider sour and then I am only getting the citrus side of the Conan (when I drink an actually Heady Topper). I think the dry hops alone of Heady would totally dominate the flavor if one was using an American ale yeast, so maybe the next step would be to do a side by side comparison of the Heady clone using Conan and something like WLP090.
 
ianmatth said:
LCD thermometer for me. Maybe what some have been explaining and experiencing as peachy flavors I am experiencing as a slightly sour flavor. For example some hops are explained as a grapefruit or lime flavor, and I would consider that a cross between citrus and sour (as no hop ever tasted like a grapefruit to me.) In fact I think most Southern Hemisphere hops have some kind of sour flavor. In regard to using Conan with Heady Topper, it has so many flame out, aroma steep, and dry hop additions, plus it is 1.073 OG with a definitive malt, so it may be that it stomps out what I would consider sour and then I am only getting the citrus side of the Conan (when I drink an actually Heady Topper). I think the dry hops alone of Heady would totally dominate the flavor if one was using an American ale yeast, so maybe the next step would be to do a side by side comparison of the Heady clone using Conan and something like WLP090.
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I didn't get the grapefruit reference until I realized it A) referred to the white grapefruit, and B) is more if a rind-like flavor. So bitter/sour seems to be grapefruit. Peachy might come off the same to you, although it should be different than grapefruit.
 
brewguyver said:
I didn't get the grapefruit reference until I realized it A) referred to the white grapefruit, and B) is more if a rind-like flavor. So bitter/sour seems to be grapefruit. Peachy might come off the same to you, although it should be different than grapefruit.
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In hoppy beers, I can distinguish lemon from tangerine from grapefruit hop notes. The peach comes across more as an aroma than a flavor in my experience, while citrus notes tend to be both aroma and flavor.
 
ianmatth said:
LCD thermometer for me. Maybe what some have been explaining and experiencing as peachy flavors I am experiencing as a slightly sour flavor. For example some hops are explained as a grapefruit or lime flavor, and I would consider that a cross between citrus and sour (as no hop ever tasted like a grapefruit to me.) In fact I think most Southern Hemisphere hops have some kind of sour flavor. In regard to using Conan with Heady Topper, it has so many flame out, aroma steep, and dry hop additions, plus it is 1.073 OG with a definitive malt, so it may be that it stomps out what I would consider sour and then I am only getting the citrus side of the Conan (when I drink an actually Heady Topper). I think the dry hops alone of Heady would totally dominate the flavor if one was using an American ale yeast, so maybe the next step would be to do a side by side comparison of the Heady clone using Conan and something like WLP090.
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We weren't sure our Conan would be ready so we are doing a split batch of wlp001 and Conan. I'll let you know how it turns out in a couple more weeks.
 
I am about 1 or 2 days from bottling, currently cold crashing. Strange is that this brew has become very very cloudy since I put it at 67-69 celcius for finishing up (second week of fermenting), just before I dry hopped. Before that it was relatively clear.

I hope it will clear a bit upon cold crashing but I don't think it will do that much. Very very cloudy it is.. :(

Anyone had this?
 
beauvafr said:
I am about 1 or 2 days from bottling, currently cold crashing. Strange is that this brew has become very very cloudy since I put it at 67-69 celcius for finishing up (second week of fermenting), just before I dry hopped. Before that it was relatively clear.

I hope it will clear a bit upon cold crashing but I don't think it will do that much. Very very cloudy it is.. :(

Anyone had this?
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Cloudy is what you want for a real Heady clone. Seems like this yeast doesn't flocc all that well.
 
Can you make a starter from one can of heady? Trying to plan if I need to avoid drinking two of my 4 pack... which, you all know, is extremely difficult.
 
beauvafr said:
I am about 1 or 2 days from bottling, currently cold crashing. Strange is that this brew has become very very cloudy since I put it at 67-69 celcius for finishing up (second week of fermenting), just before I dry hopped. Before that it was relatively clear.

I hope it will clear a bit upon cold crashing but I don't think it will do that much. Very very cloudy it is.. :(

Anyone had this?
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Cloudy is good. Partially from the hops too with all the oils. Interesting that it was clear before though.
 

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