Heady Topper- Can you clone it?

[roncruiser]

Tasting - Piney grapefruit with some peach notes.

Improvements - splitting flameout for a little more aroma kick. One right at flameout and another 30 mins in. Get sulfate up to about 200-250ppm.

Volumes, I think. Will verify by BS file when home - Pre-boil would have been right at 14g. Post-boil 11.5g. Volume into fermenter 10.5.

Dry hop was half at beginning and half at day 4. Total 7 days.

I think water profile was with gypsum, split between mash and sparge, but can check.

Yes, please verify volumes for pre-boil, post-boil and batch size.

On your 3L starter... did you start from a single vial? Was your starter stepped up? You'd end up with more yeast cells through stepping, or is a single volume 3L starter good enough?

Your fermentation temperature profile? How many days at each temp? What temp did you start off with? What did you end with?

The last couple clone attempts, I had trouble hitting the final 2-3 gravity points. I'm not sure if it was the fermentation temp profile, or the amount of yeast I used. Maybe a combination of both. Any pointers would be very beneficial.

Thanks again... Ron

 

[reddskinnfan]

Yes, please verify volumes for pre-boil, post-boil and batch size.

On your 3L starter... did you start from a single vial? Was your starter stepped up? You'd end up with more yeast cells through stepping, or is a single volume 3L starter good enough?

Your fermentation temperature profile? How many days at each temp? What temp did you start off with? What did you end with?

The last couple clone attempts, I had trouble hitting the final 2-3 gravity points. I'm not sure if it was the fermentation temp profile, or the amount of yeast I used. Maybe a combination of both. Any pointers would be very beneficial.

Thanks again... Ron

12.7g pre-boil. 11.2g post-boil. 10.5g to fermenter. Final volume 10g.

Gypsum was split at 5.4g in mash water and 2.7g in sparge.

3L starter was stepped. 2L fermented/decanted and then 3L fermented/decanted. I started fermentation at 66 and raised to 72 after it dropped to about 1.020 to help it finish.

Efficiency - 77%

Mash-In - 10.25g @ 148F for 75m, then drain.

Sparge - 6.5g @ 168F for 10m, then drain.

Notes:

Whirlpool hops added 5 minutes after flameout. I let naturally drop to 165F and kept there for 30.

*** Like I said, I would split the whirlpool hops; adding half at, or 5 mins after, flameout. The other half once down to 165F.

 

[Braufessor]

By the way, the only way to build consensus is for others to try the recipe. Clearly the one out there hasn't been cloned, as folks have been pointing out. I had the pleasure of trying heady, with mine, right after each other. The only big difference I saw was perceived bitterness, which I attribute to a little bit low on Sulfate.

Looks like a good beer.... I hope to get at this version sometime in the next 2-3 weeks. I agree that the other versions do not make a "Heady Clone" so I am eager to try something new.

Regardless of how it compares to Heady at the end, looks like a great IPA at worst, and something closer to Heady at best...... so, win-win.

Thanks for posting the details

 

[roncruiser]

12.7g pre-boil. 11.2g post-boil. 10.5g to fermenter. Final volume 10g.

Gypsum was split at 5.4g in mash water and 2.7g in sparge.

3L starter was stepped. 2L fermented/decanted and then 3L fermented/decanted. I started fermentation at 66 and raised to 72 after it dropped to about 1.020 to help it finish.

Efficiency - 77%

Mash-In - 10.25g @ 148F for 75m, then drain.

Sparge - 6.5g @ 168F for 10m, then drain.

Notes:

Whirlpool hops added 5 minutes after flameout. I let naturally drop to 165F and kept there for 30.

*** Like I said, I would split the whirlpool hops; adding half at, or 5 mins after, flameout. The other half once down to 165F.

This is all good information. The devil is in the details, so...

-Did you dry hop in primary, or move to a keg for dry hopping?
-What was the dry hop temp?
-You'd still recommend the Optic over Pearl for a clone, or your clone?

Thanks for the time...

 

[reddskinnfan]

I liked the Optic. In fact, I had never tried it before this clone and ended up buying 3 bags because of it (used in a Wit, another IPA and a Porter, so far).

I dry hopped in the serving kegs at room temp (around 70F in my house) with dry hop tubes from www.stainlessbrewing.com.

After day 7, they went on CO2 I'm the keezer for a week at 20PSI and then dropped to 10PSI for serving.

 

[ianmatth]

Nice recipe, similar to bobbrews with the no hops in the boil approach. I imagine it would have really been there with more gypsum. I also like that this recipe shows you don't have to be so exacting with the malt and hops. I've used a combination of Golden Promise and 2-row and I usually replaced Amarillo with Citra and El Dorado. I thought that Optic might work and I imagine a mix of Marris Otter and 2-row would also work. And in reference to a previous post of someone thinking figuring out the exact hops The Alchemist uses will get the clone right, I 100% disagree. In fact I doubt Heady has always used the exact same hops due to hop supply issues in the industry. I think the right mix of Simcoe, dank, and fruity hops will get it there. Looks like it's about a good British malt backbone, lots of hop oil up front, the right post boil hop combination, and the right dry hop combination.

Two last questions, what temperature did you ferment at and how much yeast did you pitch? I recently saw something that said the Alchemist pitches on the low side. I have been pitching on the high, but I may change that.

 

[reddskinnfan]

Ferment was 66F until 1.020, then 72F to finish out.

I pitched a double-stepped 3L Conan batch (decanted, of course).

 

[ultravista]

Besides drawing-off wort from the kettle to mix in with the hop shots, what other tips/tricks are there for making this a successful brew?

 

[reddskinnfan]

I put my hopshot straight into the boil.

 

[brewski09]

Besides drawing-off wort from the kettle to mix in with the hop shots, what other tips/tricks are there for making this a successful brew?

Maybe I missed something but I've only seen people adding hptshot straight to the wort and that's what we did too. What does drawing off to mix the hop shot do?

 

[ultravista]

The tip came from someone who has used hop shots before - a means to prevent the thick goop from sinking to the bottom of the kettle and burning. Drawing-off some work, mixing, and dumping makes sense.

However, if no one else is doing it then it may not be necessary.

 

[roncruiser]

Nice recipe, similar to bobbrews with the no hops in the boil approach. I imagine it would have really been there with more gypsum. I also like that this recipe shows you don't have to be so exacting with the malt and hops. I've used a combination of Golden Promise and 2-row and I usually replaced Amarillo with Citra and El Dorado. I thought that Optic might work and I imagine a mix of Marris Otter and 2-row would also work. And in reference to a previous post of someone thinking figuring out the exact hops The Alchemist uses will get the clone right, I 100% disagree. In fact I doubt Heady has always used the exact same hops due to hop supply issues in the industry. I think the right mix of Simcoe, dank, and fruity hops will get it there. Looks like it's about a good British malt backbone, lots of hop oil up front, the right post boil hop combination, and the right dry hop combination.

Two last questions, what temperature did you ferment at and how much yeast did you pitch? I recently saw something that said the Alchemist pitches on the low side. I have been pitching on the high, but I may change that.

I agree with the above highlighted in red 100%.

***********************************************

I've compiled reddskinnfan's recipe and notes into the following:

reddskinnfan recipe

Grains:
8 oz - Rice Hulls
23 lb - Optic Malt
3 lb - Flaked Wheat
1 lb - CaraRed
1 lb - Corn Sugar

Note: Mash-In - 10.25g @ 148F for 75m, then drain.
Sparge - 6.5g @ 168F for 10m, then drain.
Sparge pH - 5.5
Mash pH - 5.4

12.7g pre-boil volume.
----------------------------------------------------------

Boil time: 60 minutes.
Hops:
20 ml - Apollo HopShot @ 60m
3 oz - Simcoe @ 40m (steep)
1.5 oz - Citra @ 40m (steep)
1.5 oz - Mosaic @ 40m (steep)
1.0 oz - Chinook @ 40m (steep)
1.0 oz - Summit @ 40m (steep)

Note: All steep hops added at flameout, then pot covered and naturally cooled for 40m before running through chiller, or
Whirlpool hops added 5 minutes after flameout. I let naturally drop to 165F and kept there for 30.
(Improvements - splitting flameout for a little more aroma kick. One right at flameout and another 30 mins in.)

11.2g post-boil volume.
----------------------------------------------------------

10.5g into fermenter.
3L starter - Vermont IPA (GigaYeast)
Note: 3L starter was stepped. 2L fermented/decanted and then 3L fermented/decanted.
Fermentation at started at 66F. Raised to 72 after gravity dropped to about 1.020 to help it finish.

OG @ 1.072
FG @ 1.010

Dry hop will be:

3 oz Simcoe
1.5 oz Centennial
1.5 oz Chinook
1.0 oz Columbus
1.0 oz Comet

Note: Dry hop was half at beginning and half at day 4. Total 7 days.
I dry hopped in the serving kegs at room temp (around 70F in my house) with dry hop tubes from www.stainlessbrewing.com.

Final volume 10g.
----------------------------------------------------------

Water Profile:

75 ppm - Calcium
10 ppm - Magnesium
24 ppm - Sodium
113 ppm - Sulfate (Improvements: Increase 200-250)
44 ppm - Chloride
0 ppm - Bicarbonate
----------------------------------------------------------

Misc Notes:
And my final IBU/Color/ABV:
Calculated IBU - 140
SRM - 7
Measured ABV - 8.2%
----------------------------------------------------------

Tasting - Piney grapefruit with some peach notes. I had the pleasure of trying heady, with mine, right after each other.
The only big difference I saw was perceived bitterness, which I attribute to a little bit low on Sulfate.

***********************************************

Lets get a consensus on this recipe. I know I'm going to brew it.

Thanks for the recipe and notes reddskinnfan!

 

[brettwasbtd]

Lets get a consensus on this recipe. I know I'm going to brew it.

Just search for it

Thanks for the recipe and notes reddskinnfan!

In all seriousness, thanks for the info @reddskinnfan and thanks for @roncruiser for the compilation

 

[brewski09]

The tip came from someone who has used hop shots before - a means to prevent the thick goop from sinking to the bottom of the kettle and burning. Drawing-off some work, mixing, and dumping makes sense.

However, if no one else is doing it then it may not be necessary.

Thanks. I'll try that next time. It makes perfect sense.

 

[redleaves]

I've had a theory for a while that they use hop oil

 

[brewski09]

Like what Sierra Nevada is doing with Hop Hunter?

 

[redleaves]

Not quite but you can buy hop oil. It gives a really smooth hop character and you can use a lot without adding vegetal notes

 

[Asta]

Don't want to be a d---weed but didn't redskinfan post that he had never tried Heady? I'm sure he makes a great DIPA, but I'm just saying . . .

 

[BreezyBrew]

Don't want to be a d---weed but didn't redskinfan post that he had never tried Heady? I'm sure he makes a great DIPA, but I'm just saying . . .

No. Do your homework. Where's @Billy-Klubb when you need him. Berry punches for you.

By the way, the only way to build consensus is for others to try the recipe. Clearly the one out there hasn't been cloned, as folks have been pointing out. I had the pleasure of trying heady, with mine, right after each other. The only big difference I saw was perceived bitterness, which I attribute to a little bit low on Sulfate.

 

[reddskinnfan]

Don't want to be a d---weed but didn't redskinfan post that he had never tried Heady? I'm sure he makes a great DIPA, but I'm just saying . . .

Don't wanna be a d*ckweed, then don't be one... Troll...

I had never tried Heady when I originally built this recipe. At the time I was going off a lot of different sources of information.

I did, however, get to try it after my recipe was ready. In fact, I had two six packs of the elusive beast. Hell, I even gave away a couple to a good friend, along with a growler of mine.

 

[geoffey]

Don't wanna be a d*ckweed, then don't be one... Troll...

I had never tried Heady when I originally built this recipe. At the time I was going off a lot of different sources of information.

I did, however, get to try it after my recipe was ready. In fact, I had two six packs of the elusive beast. Hell, I even gave away a couple to a good friend, along with a growler of mine.

It comes in 4 packs. Someone must have pulled a fast one on you.

 

[chisena]

It comes in 4 packs. Someone must have pulled a fast one on you.

Classic. Busted!

 

[kevink]

Don't wanna be a d*ckweed, then don't be one... Troll...

I had never tried Heady when I originally built this recipe. At the time I was going off a lot of different sources of information.

I did, however, get to try it after my recipe was ready. In fact, I had two six packs of the elusive beast. Hell, I even gave away a couple to a good friend, along with a growler of mine.

It's pretty crazy how you never tasted Heady before you brewed your recipe yet your version was a perfect clone except for the bitterness (which would be easy to adjust).

 

[reddskinnfan]

Brought to me as 12 cans in two of those mixed 6 pack cardboard carriers (like you'd get at Total Wine), but whatever...

I also said that in my opinion it was close, except for bitterness. In fact, I said it was missing some aroma punch too, which is why I was going to change the whirpool hops a bit. I never said cloned. As I said, I came up with the recipe before ever tasting it, based on other info that I had read on other forums/posts.

Think what you want and brew what you want... No one said you HAVE to believe me, no one said you HAVE to brew my attempt or better yet no one said you HAVE to agree with me.

I, for one, think it's close after trying them one after another, and will be brewing the same recipe again with higher Sulfate levels.

Good luck to those who do, and please report your results. I'm sure the haters are dying to hear!

 

[TheHairyHop]

It's pretty crazy how you never tasted Heady before you brewed your recipe yet your version was a perfect clone except for the bitterness (which would be easy to adjust).

way to go overboard in analyzing a post

 

[Asta]

Don't wanna be a d*ckweed, then don't be one... Troll...

I had never tried Heady when I originally built this recipe. At the time I was going off a lot of different sources of information.

I did, however, get to try it after my recipe was ready. In fact, I had two six packs of the elusive beast. Hell, I even gave away a couple to a good friend, along with a growler of mine.

Nice. You posted previously you had never tried Heady before you cloned it, which seems pretty odd. That's all I'm saying, so chill.

 

[SlamDunkel]

On another subject. I have to ask if anyone used 2 row with Maris Otter at 50/50 mix for a substitute for Pearl as a base malt. Will it work ok? I have read somewhere that is can be a substitute. Just got the Northern Brew all grain clone and will be a comparison in the future. I put my trust in your taste Buds

 

[Braufessor]

On another subject. I have to ask if anyone used 2 row with Maris Otter at 50/50 mix for a substitute for Pearl as a base malt. Will it work ok? I have read somewhere that is can be a substitute. Just got the Northern Brew all grain clone and will be a comparison in the future. I put my trust in your taste Buds

I make all of my beers (ales) with a 50/50 base blend of Rahr 2Row and Golden Promise..... Works great. I really think the least significant aspect of this entire recipe is the base malt. Anyone who can get the hops right and the fermentation right can use whatever they want for their base malt...... 2Row, Maris, Pearl, Golden Promise....etc.

 

[reddskinnfan]

I agree. A mix of GP and 2 row, 60/40 for me, has done well in a lot of the English-esque beers I do. Lends the English touch, but without being too sweet or bready.

 

[Braufessor]

....... without being too sweet or bready.

Yep - this^^^^ exactly.

 

[fellatamas182]

Don't wanna be a d*ckweed, then don't be one... Troll...

I had never tried Heady when I originally built this recipe. At the time I was going off a lot of different sources of information.

I did, however, get to try it after my recipe was ready. In fact, I had two six packs of the elusive beast. Hell, I even gave away a couple to a good friend, along with a growler of mine.

Does heady come in 6 packs?

 

[Yambor44]

Does heady come in 6 packs?

I'm going to go out on a limb an assume you didn't read the rest of the thread. 😎

 

[fellatamas182]

I'm going to go out on a limb an assume you didn't read the rest of the thread. [emoji41]

I did not was just skimming and saw this, wasn't sure I had missed something that alchemist came it with sixers suddenly ha! Got excited then just went back to that page and saw the rest and how it was a six pack technically.

 

[SlamDunkel]

This is my 5th All grain. All have worked great. My past experience is working with Wines. Specifically Robert Mondavi in Woodbridge/Acampo. So far I have to say you are correct because I did a 3 Floyds Zombie dust clone and many friends liked it. As compared to a Barley Wine. Also the barley wine made my tap stick with sugar. A little dryer Beer with some see through the glass is better. Just my opinion. I will take your post and develope as best as I can.
Ps: there is nothing like a huge fermentation tank that has Happy Yeast at 90 Deg F blowing up like a volcano. I have many stories. Ya gota grab that process at the right time. With cold.

 

[kcmobrewer]

Reading that made my head hurt

 

[m00ps]

holy crap, yeah. I couldnt type more scatterbrained and disconnected if I tried

 

[harrydrez]

Looks like someone used google translator or something along those lines to post. I can sort of understand it.

 

[roncruiser]

Getting it close is all we can hope for.

 

[tjacks04]

I brewed a clone about a month ago and it is way too syrupy. I will try another 3 Floyds clone with an all grain approach to see if the taste is cleaner.

 

[sweetcell]

I brewed a clone about a month ago and it is way too syrupy.

did you take a FG?

sweet/syrupy has been my problem too, because Conan crapped out on me at 1.022 and 1.020. both times i had to use a second yeast to get the beer down to something drinkable. i currently have the 1.020 DIPA finishing up its second fermentation on the cake of TYB Saison Blend II.