hokster
Well-Known Member
ohiobrewtus:
did we end up with two teams each, or just the one?
did we end up with two teams each, or just the one?
HBT NFL Mock Draft '09
- Thread starter ohiobrewtus
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hokster
Well-Known Member
Booyah. Thanks.
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ohiobrewtus
Well-Known Member
Some ended up with 3 teams, but everyone should have at least 2. If you see something to the contrary, please let me know.
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ohiobrewtus
Well-Known Member
You got it. If they don't make the pick in time I'll make it for them just to keep things moving along.
With 24 hours per first round pick and 12 hours per 2nd round pick (maximum), we'll need to start 48 days before the draft. Last year most of the picks were in well before the 24 hours, so I'd like to start Monday 3/16 at 8 am. I will then be on the clock for the Lions. I will update the OP with this information as well.
**ALL GM'S = UPDATES WILL ALWAYS APPEAR IN THE OP. Please check there first if you are looking for information
Danek
Well-Known Member
Here's Steve Wyche's mock draft. He's got Stafford going at #1, which seems a reach to me.
Mock draft 1.0: Lions' glaring need at QB makes Stafford top pick
Mock draft 1.0: Lions' glaring need at QB makes Stafford top pick
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ohiobrewtus
Well-Known Member
Thanks for posting, I hadn't seen that one yet.
Here are some of the mocks that I check on regularly:
Draft Countdown (over the last few years, this guy has been more accurate than anyone in the business with the exception of Rich Gossage of the Dallas Morning News.
DraftTek - currently my favorite mock draft site. They currently have what I think is the best Lions draft. They also have an Online Draft Simulator in which you can change the team needs by position, make trades and swap picks, then have their system generate a new draft based on your changes.
NFL Draft Blitz
Great Blue North
Draft Notebook
And the ultimate NFL Mock Draft database:
Hail Redskins Mock Draft Database - The largest list of links to Mock drafts anywhere on the web.
Regarding the Lions and the #1 overall pick, I've changed my tune a bit. Both the Lions new Head Coach Jim Schwartz and Offensive Coordinator Scott Linehan have publicly stated that they support Jeff Backus at Left Tackle. I disagree with them, but their statements not only guarantee that an OT will not be the pick at #1, but an OT will likely not even be selected with any of their 5 picks out of the first 82 picks overall.
I think that only leaves them with 3 realistic options as of today; Stafford, Sanchez or Curry.
Combine workouts start Saturday, but I don't expect either Stafford or Sanchez to throw at the combine. The Lions will have to wait to schedule private workouts when them in a few of weeks.
Here are some of the mocks that I check on regularly:
Draft Countdown (over the last few years, this guy has been more accurate than anyone in the business with the exception of Rich Gossage of the Dallas Morning News.
DraftTek - currently my favorite mock draft site. They currently have what I think is the best Lions draft. They also have an Online Draft Simulator in which you can change the team needs by position, make trades and swap picks, then have their system generate a new draft based on your changes.
NFL Draft Blitz
Great Blue North
Draft Notebook
And the ultimate NFL Mock Draft database:
Hail Redskins Mock Draft Database - The largest list of links to Mock drafts anywhere on the web.
Regarding the Lions and the #1 overall pick, I've changed my tune a bit. Both the Lions new Head Coach Jim Schwartz and Offensive Coordinator Scott Linehan have publicly stated that they support Jeff Backus at Left Tackle. I disagree with them, but their statements not only guarantee that an OT will not be the pick at #1, but an OT will likely not even be selected with any of their 5 picks out of the first 82 picks overall.
I think that only leaves them with 3 realistic options as of today; Stafford, Sanchez or Curry.
Combine workouts start Saturday, but I don't expect either Stafford or Sanchez to throw at the combine. The Lions will have to wait to schedule private workouts when them in a few of weeks.
Thanks for all the draft resources.
Looking more and more like Stafford as #1. Maybe the Lions can follow up their run on WR with a run on QBs.
I'm hoping several teams pass on OL picks to get skill players. Steelers could use a couple upgrades on the line and nearly all of them are free agents this year so they will probably have holes to fill.
Craig
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ohiobrewtus
Well-Known Member
Thanks for all the draft resources.
Looking more and more like Stafford as #1. Maybe the Lions can follow up their run on WR with a run on QBs.
I'm hoping several teams pass on OL picks to get skill players. Steelers could use a couple upgrades on the line and nearly all of them are free agents this year so they will probably have holes to fill.
Craig
The Steelers should have a lot of really solid OL options at #32.
Ebon Britton, OT - Arizona
William Beatty, OT - UConn
Duke Robinson, OG - Oklahoma
Max Unger, OC/OG - Oregon
Alex Mack, OC/OG - Cal
RICLARK
Well-Known Member
I was listening to Todd Wright on SNR the other night, and he had some anaylist that projected Stafford and Sanchez going 13 and 15. I would like to see them fall there because The Lions dont need either of them.
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ohiobrewtus
Well-Known Member
Well, they *do* need a QB. It's just a matter of if they want to use a 1st this year or next year to take one. I think that the class of QB's will be better next year.
Let's face it, the Lions are almost certainly going to be picking in the top 10 again next year and they'll probably still be able to get their franchise QB then. I'd take Bradford or McCoy over Stafford/Sanchez anytime.
RICLARK
Well-Known Member
I agree with you. McCoy would be great because he is elusive and pretty fast on his feet. I think this year they gotta go with Jenkins. Let Culpepper and Orlovskey Fight for the starting job and keep building next year.
This year looks to be tough to pick in the first couple spots. There appear to be 40-50 players that are worthy of first round picks but hardly any that are worth a top 5 pick. So those teams with the first few picks will probably end up paying too much for players that would be a good value at 5-10. And they probably are not going to be able to trade them away. For the Lions at least they get a second first round pick to hopefully increase the value of this years draft.
Craig
Craig
RICLARK
Well-Known Member
OB do you think Schwarz is gonna keep the tampa 2 defense?
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ohiobrewtus
Well-Known Member
That's an interesting question, particularly because that's what Herm
Edwards had Gunther Cunningham (the Lions new Defensive Coordinator) running the last couple of years.
Schwartz and Cunningham have said all along that they will run the defense that best fits the personnel that they have on the roster.
Marinelli was too thick headed to see that the players that he he had didn't fit the traditional Tampa 2. The bad part about that is that he and Millen drafted smallish players to fit that defense, and now Schwartz and Cunningham are going to come in and change it.
I'm guessing that they'll stick with a 4-3 base, but it won't be a Tampa-2 zone defense. They both like to bring pressure, which means leaving corners in man on the outside with safety help and very few zones.
That could all change depending on who they sign in free agency and pick in the draft. I'd like to see them make a change to an agressive 3-4, myself but in order to do that you need a mauler in the middle. They had one but they traded him away to Cleveland last year.
Mark my words - Aaron Curry (linebacker, Wake Forest) will be in serious contention for the #1 overall pick. If he's the pick at #1 then the Lions take the best at DT, LB or CB at #20. If they take Curry and someone like Maualuga/Laurinaitis/Maybin is still there at #20 then I think you'll see them take another LB and make the switch to a 3-4, taking a guy like Ron Brace (DT - Boston College) at #33. Do that and your defense instantly becomes exponentially better.
RICLARK
Well-Known Member
I agree, I would love to see a 3-4 Defense here. I would also like to see them take Laurinaitis as well. Im not gonna say hes the next Spielman but he is going to be a monster.
Danek
Well-Known Member
It looks like the 'Skins won't be drafting a DT then. And I thought there was a financial crisis going on...
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ohiobrewtus
Well-Known Member
No they will not. Daniel Snyder is an idiot. He's been trying to build a team this way for what, 10 years now? You would think that he'd realize by now that it doesn't work. You build through the draft, not by throwing bags of money to severy free agent with star power every offseason.
Notable free agent signings already today:
Albert Haynesworth - Redskins (7 years, $100 million, $41 million guaranteed)
Bart Scott - New York Jets (terms not released, believed to average $8 million/year)
Notable free agent signings already today:
Albert Haynesworth - Redskins (7 years, $100 million, $41 million guaranteed)
Bart Scott - New York Jets (terms not released, believed to average $8 million/year)
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ohiobrewtus
Well-Known Member
AND ---- Our Mock draft will begin in just over 2 weeks!
RICLARK
Well-Known Member
He is following the yankees Model I guess. I really dont think Haynesworth is all that special. The guy only performs when Hes ready for a new contract.
I've been reading as many draft reports as I can. I'm thinking that Pioli ends up drafting someone on the defensive side; the Pats seemed to draft a defensive lineman in the first round every single year. Kansas City had absolutely no pass rush last year, either.
EDIT: Notable free agent signing - Fred Taylor's Groin, New England Patriots!
EDIT: Notable free agent signing - Fred Taylor's Groin, New England Patriots!
RICLARK
Well-Known Member
They Definately need a pass rush, They were just awful last year. I think Aaron Curry would be great for them even though they need D line.
Danek
Well-Known Member
Assuming Taylor's healthy enough to chip in then it's a good signing, but I'm not sure it augurs well for Maroney. He needs to have a breakout year this season or I suspect he'll go the same way as Chad Jackson.
Sounds like the Chiefs may be trading a third rounder for Mike Vrabel. He's getting a little long in the tooth, but he's a real good guy to have in your locker room. Pats are kinda hamstrung now that they have so much committed to the QB spot; also discussion this may be tied into a bigger move.
I agree, too, it's time for Maroney to **** or get off the pot. If he gets hurt in camp, he'll be cut. I'm hoping it all starts clicking for him like it did for DeAngelo Williams last year, who I think was drafted the same year.
I agree, too, it's time for Maroney to **** or get off the pot. If he gets hurt in camp, he'll be cut. I'm hoping it all starts clicking for him like it did for DeAngelo Williams last year, who I think was drafted the same year.
uglygoat
Well-Known Member
clowns traded k2 to tampa for a second rounder... lmao, here's your new contract kellen... we've got a lot more self appraised talent left to trade for draft picks in my view.
Danek
Well-Known Member
KC have just upgraded themselves significantly in exchange for sending their R2 pick to New England. I know Vrabel's getting on a little, but unless Cassel turns out to be a one-season wonder, that trade looks like a steal for Pioli.
The Cassel deal was definately disappointing from the Patriot's perspective. I think we all would have been fine with just getting that pick for Cassel, but losing Vrabel (who the Chiefs will LOVE) sucks.
But, this should free up a lot of space, I'd love to see them do something interesting with it.
But, this should free up a lot of space, I'd love to see them do something interesting with it.
What I don't get is why they couldn't shoehorn Tony Gonzales in the deal some way. He wants out of KC, the Pats are always looking to upgrade the TE spot (they just signed that guy - Baker, maybe? - who used to play for the Jets). Gonzales is getting old, but he can still play, and he'd be outstanding as a bigger option for those plays in the middle they always run for Welker. You have those two guys in the middle of the field, Moss stretching the field... that's certainly make up for losing Jabar Gaffney!
Danek
Well-Known Member
I guess they reckoned Baker was better value for money than Gonzales would have been (that's assuming that Gonzales is on substantial money, as he's obviously the better player). The Pats also need to extend Wilfork and Mankins's contracts, and even without Cassel on the books, new contracts for those two would still put them close to the cap. FWIW, I think that Baker will turn out to be a good acquisition. His numbers from two years ago were pretty impressive, and last season he got squeezed out by that rookie TE whose name I can't remember. So I think he's better than his production last year would suggest.
As for the KC trade, Mike Smith on ESPN said that the Pats threw in Vrabel as a salary dump. I don't know if that's true, but even if that is the case, I still can't believe they couldn't get another lower-round pick for including him. I assume KC would have given up the R2 for Cassel on his own. That being the case, there must have been at least one club in the NFL that would want Vrabel in exchange for a fourth or fifth round pick.
[EDIT: WTF? Just seen this on Boston.com: "The Saturday trade that shipped Cassel and Vrabel to Kansas City for a second-round pick (No. 34 overall) allowed the Patriots to clear Cassel's $14.65 million franchise tag fee off the books and $3.3 million of Vrabel's scheduled $4.3 million cap hit in 2009. Lending further credence to the idea that the trade was done in part with an eye toward clearing cap space is the fact that the Lions offered the first pick of the second round (No. 33 overall) straight up for Cassel, according to an NFL source. Kansas City's willingness to take on Vrabel's contract allowed the Patriots to gain more room under the cap." So the Pats actually gave up a couple of draft places to get rid of Vrabel? Belichick must really think he's got nothing left in the tank.]
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ohiobrewtus
Well-Known Member
The Vrabel/Cassel move was all about freeing up cap space and keeping Cassel out of the hands of Josh McDaniels.
I think that in a sick and twisted way, Belichick is going to get some satisfaction out of knowing that his trade of Cassel to KC just completely kicked the value of Derek Anderson right in the nuts. If KC gave up #34 for Cassel and Vrabel, that makes Anderson worth a 3rd at best. This trade could very well force the Browns (and Mangini) to pay Anderson that $5 million roster bonus and keep him on the roster in '09.
I'm guessing that the thought of that puts a big smile on Belichik's face.
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ohiobrewtus
Well-Known Member
The Lions did offer #33 for Cassel, but they weren't going to keep him. They would have taken Cassel for pick #33 then traded him to Denver for Jay Cutler straight up.
See, I don't buy that Belichick is all that worried about Cassel going to a rival team. I mean, is there anyone in the world who knows more about his weaknesses that Belichick? He knows Cassel's strengths and weaknesses better than Cassel does!
I'm still not clear on whether Denver's proposal even got to the official stage, but regardless, they've pissed the **** out of Cutler now.
There's talk about the Pats making a move for Julius Peppers; if they grab him, losing Vrabel becomes less important.
There was other talk about them pursuing Derrick Brooks; time flies, he's been in the league fourteen years now. Doesn't seem to be as much of a playmaker anymore, his tackles were down a lot despite playing all 16 games (guessing he plays more situationally now), but only one pick, one forced fumble, and he hasn't had a sack in three years. It's not all about the stats, especially in football, but I wonder how much ball he really has left in him.
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ohiobrewtus
Well-Known Member
I'd be quite surprised to see Peppers land in NE. He's going to want Haynesworth money and I don't see the Patriots meeting whatever the Panthers' draft pick requirements are *plus* matching $12+ million a year for a guy that's almost 30.
I agree that Cassel isn't much of a QB. He's system QB, and McDaniels was the OC of that system. Ruinite Cassel with McDaniels in Denver and they could tear it up. Not what you want if you're Bill Belichik
I agree that Cassel isn't much of a QB. He's system QB, and McDaniels was the OC of that system. Ruinite Cassel with McDaniels in Denver and they could tear it up. Not what you want if you're Bill Belichik
I know, but they've surprised me in the past. Never expected to land either Rosie Colvin or Adelius Thomas. In any case, I think they'll make ONE impact acquisition on the defensive side, whether it's Peppers or a youngish, talented LB to play alongside Mayo and the old farts.
Danek
Well-Known Member
Even allowing for Belichick's form in springing free-agent surprises, I don't think Peppers is moving to the Pats. Given the likely inflationary effect of the Haynesworth signing on DL contracts, I don't see the Pats being able to afford both Peppers and Wilfork - and I think Wilfork is more important to the 3-4 that the Patriots play. So my guess is they'll prioritise extending his contract ahead of acquiring Peppers.
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ohiobrewtus
Well-Known Member
Danek, are you able to get NFL games at all on your side of the pond?
Danek
Well-Known Member
Yeah, easily enough - they show several games each week on cable TV. Though as I don't have cable where I live, I either have to go back to my parents' and watch games there, or else I make do with listening to games on Boston radio over the internet. The one thing it's impossible to get, though, is coverage of college sports of any kind. We used to get old re-runs of ESPN college games in the middle of the night, but now even that's dried up.
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ohiobrewtus
Well-Known Member
**REMINDER**
I an officially on the clock for the Lions one week from today at 8 am.
I an officially on the clock for the Lions one week from today at 8 am.
Danek
Well-Known Member
(Just checking, as one who is afflicted by time-zones - that's 8am ET, right?)
Pat Kirwan at NFL.com has another mock draft up at:
Mock draft 3.0: Texas' Orakpo moving up the board
One thing I can't figure out is who the top RB prospect is in this draft. I've seen widely different appraisals of Moreno and Wells, but no-one seems to be all that crazy about either one of them.
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ohiobrewtus
Well-Known Member
I am now officially on the clock for the Detroit Lions and entertaining all trade offers. PM me if you are interested in coming up to the #1 overall pick.
