Happiness is: Home malting

[Brewbecca]

I would have thought a spring would work, I saw a utube video of an old timer making whiskey and he malted his corn in a sack in a stream, left it in there for two days, then removed it and sprayed with warm water, etc.

That's a great idea. There's a small... ditch? trench? moat? (sorry for my english ) flowing near my house, I mean, it's quite small, not much water flowing, there could be bacteria, but... I'll give it a try!!
Maybe just a couple of libs. Keep on experimentig! :rockin:

PS: the seeds with grey rootlets are drying at the moment.

 

[Clayton]

Becca, you best bet is to get a 5 gallon bucket paint straner, fill the paint strain hafe full with barley and then top off the bucket with water. soke for 2 hours and then pull out the strainer , dump the water let drain and resoke untill your get the mosture level right.
i also floor malt. i have found that after the soke a very large wool blanket is a great tool for germenation and coucheing the malt. (couching is limiting the oxygen to the malt at the middle and end of the germanation to keep the arospire from growing to large and to alow time for enzyme production and minmize starch consumption by the sprout. i only malt in the late fall when the weather is just right i turn out the malt on to a wool blanken on a huge picnic table , how i spead it and and fold it controlls the temp and oxygen , sometimes i have to slip it in the plasic bag and or a refrigerator to control the rate of germenation. after that i move it on to the concreat floor of my shop to finish and for drying.

if you are trying to use well water to soke and sprout your grain via a trickeling hose placed in the bottom of the bucket, leting the water flow up ward and out, it will not work. deep ground water has nearly zero oxygen. if you are going to use the ground water you need to aeration and agitation to the water before it enter the bucket. it just like home brew you have to oxgenate the wort before you pitch the yeast.

drying the malt , its foggy because the shop is heated to 118F with propane heaters ,
had a few fans blowing down on the malt but thay are off camra

this is the malt after it has been dryed on the floor with large fans and propane heaters, after the floor drying it was loaded in to pillow cases that were tyed closed with tye wire and ran in the clothes dryer for 2 hrs on mid-hi heat.

after the tumble i used a fan to seperate the rootlets that were removed in the tumble from the grain with a fan. at this point I dont do any further drying , the malt feels very dry but may not be stable, as malt house kilm dry for hours - days. so i just store the malt in my cheast freezer with my hops and other grains. so far it has been very very enyzematice malt, i did some testing with cream ales and flaked corn from the Co-op ($7.50 55lbs) and was able to do a complete start converstion (iodine test) with the corn makeing up 45% of the grist

 

[Brewbecca]

Clayton, thanks so much for the info. Greatly useful.

if you are trying to use well water to soke and sprout your grain via a trickeling hose placed in the bottom of the bucket, leting the water flow up ward and out, it will not work. deep ground water has nearly zero oxygen. if you are going to use the ground water you need to aeration and agitation to the water before it enter the bucket. it just like home brew you have to oxgenate the wort before you pitch the yeast.

You're right, I should have thought about it... I only hope I'll not lose the second batch as well, I'm going through the normal process of soaking/aerating, but I already let the seeds in the water for 8 hours, and if the waters has nearly no oxy at all...

But why do you put the seeds in the refrigerator while germinating? Won't the seeds break, due to the water inside freezing?

 

[The Mad Hatter]

very cool!

 

[Clayton]

But why do you put the seeds in the refrigerator while germinating? Won't the seeds break, due to the water inside freezing?

good question, no they are in a refrigerator i use for beer fermentation, So it have a digital temp controller to let me set warmer temps like 50s F and 60s F. like this https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f51/side-side-fermentation-chamber-build-105054/

 

[Brewbecca]

good question, no they are in a refrigerator i use for beer fermentation, So it have a digital temp controller to let me set warmer temps like 50s F and 60s F. like this https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f51/side-side-fermentation-chamber-build-105054/

Nice one. This matter of couching is new to me, and even if it seems that mastering it makes a much better malt, it seems to be more obscure than the rest! So I guess I'll have to face it on a second stage, now I'm trying to get the basics of malting. The second batch of barley has lively whitish rootlets, so my deep water is good for soaking/aerating. I'm already not very satisfied by my drying equipment, the greenhouse, it works but it is nearly impossible to have the same process twice. Do you older maltsters think it will affect a lot the final qualities of the malt?

I'm also fond of the washing machine idea. COLObrewer, are you going to use the original resistance as a heat source during the drying? Is it enough? I mean, it is meant to warm water, not a flow of air?


Update: I'd better think about some couching, in less than 48 hours I got 5% overmodified barley...

 

[COLObrewer]

. . . . . . . . . .
I'm also fond of the washing machine idea. COLObrewer, are you going to use the original resistance as a heat source during the drying? Is it enough? I mean, it is meant to warm water, not a flow of air?...

No, I plan on using an outside air heater ducted into the machine and a fan to pull vacuum on it similar to the previous one.

. . . . .
Update: I'd better think about some couching, in less than 48 hours I got 5% overmodified barley...

I can't believe this, what are you using to determine full modification? You need to cut the kernels in half and inspect the acrospire, do not use the length of the rootlets/chits for this.

What is your water temperature?

Keep on malting my friends

 

[Brewbecca]

I classified overmodified the ones with the acrospire breaking the kernel and coming out... guess they're over-overmodified then! 48 hours and it is done.

Don't know about the water temperature, I'll tell you next time I visit my malting spot (it's not at home, that's a little pain because it doesn't give me all time access to it), but I can tell you that when you dip your arm is quite chilling, I wouldn't bath in it. Say around 50/60 fahreneit.
The temperature in the malting room is about 80 fahreneit, while the floor itself should be more or less around 65.

 

[Clayton]

So Brewbecca how is the homebrewing world in Italy? have not seen many board members on here from there.

 

[Brewbecca]

So Brewbecca how is the homebrewing world in Italy? have not seen many board members on here from there.

Well, if I have to tell the truth, I don't know much about that since I'm not a homebrewer myself!!
I'm trying to become a maltster, and since this is the closest thing to a home maltsters' forum I joined the conversation. A friend of mine is the homebrewer, so I'm supposed to give him the malt.

Anyway, I think there's a lot going on in Italy, there are some websites about homebrewing with forums attended by many people; you can find easily ingredients on the net, there are even some shops in Northern Italy. There are a lot of professional microbreweries as well, there are 2 in my hometown (that makes 120,000 people, it's not that big) and you know, here it's not UK or Belgium or Germany where there are strong bier traditions, here wine come first.

So I think the language is the barrier, my homebrewer friend for example doesn't speak much english, he reads this forum searching for recipes and tips, but he's not confident to post, too difficult.

Anyway I still have a long way to go as a maltster, got my first green malt today, nearly 30% of seeds have got mould (I think a dark, almost black end of the seed is mould). The strange thing is that there wasn't any after germination. Probably during the night the greenhouse becomes too much humid. Ok, next try. Keep malting! :rockin:

 

[lurker18]

If the black ends are just on the hulls, don't worry about it. It can be something as simple as a varietal trait, could be sunburn while the crop is still in the field, it may be weathered from the environment. If the actual seed is starting to turn black, you have to peel the hulls of, called perling, to see this. You are allowed up to 0.5% of the seeds to have this. If there are 30% of the seeds that are affected internally, then there is a very big problem with where you are getting your malt from, or the stuff you are getting is feed barley and has not been accepted as malt.


Heated kernels, allowed 0.5%

The one on the bottom right is a good undamaged kernel.

 

[lurker18]

Smut kernels

Fusarium Kernels

If the black looks like these, and as you say 30% of the kernels are like this, this would not make malt. Smut is useable up to 5 kernels per kilogram, and fusarium is usable up to 0.2%, anythin over 1.0% does not even make good animal feed, as these contain toxins that can cause feed uptake problems in the animals.

 

[Clayton]

Brewbecca maybe you can get lucky and find this book on the cheep http://www.amazon.com/Malts-Malting-D-E-Briggs/dp/0412298007

yeah you need to start the drying fast , i use large fans blowing on the spead out malt as in the picture above

 

[COLObrewer]

Brewbecca maybe you can get lucky and find this book on the cheep http://www.amazon.com/Malts-Malting-D-E-Briggs/dp/0412298007 . . . . .

+1 If you want to go pro, this seems to be the book.

Keep on malting my friends

 

[Clayton]

That's a great idea. There's a small... ditch? trench? moat? (sorry for my english ) flowing near my house, I .

I think the word you were looking for was stream or brook to me a brook is tiny and then larger you have a stream or creek then after that a river.

 

[COLObrewer]

I think the word you were looking for was stream or brook to me a brook is tiny and then larger you have a stream or creek then after that a river.

If it is a natural stream with nobody above you that would be great, make certain no-one is introducing any toxic chemicals into the water before it gets to you, etc.

Keep on malting my friends

 

[Brewbecca]

Thank you all guys for the support!!!

So I peeled the "black ends", removing the perling with a cutter, and to my big surprise the kernel inside is totally white. So tonight kilning in the house!!


Yeah if I want to use this brook water, I think I have first to go and check where it comes from. It's flowing between fields, it might be used for irrigation, but there are some small factories in the area as well, I wouldn't have their black water in my malt BTW I made a quick google images search, so with brook I can find only hot chicks in bikini, with trench raincoats and the like, so I'd say ditch is the one that fits most. Maybe I'll post a picture later.

The books looks as great as expensive, but I'll definetly think about it!

One last thing: I'm starting thinking about next year, when I'll (want to) process much more barley. So instead of the washing machine, I'm thinking about one of these:
http://blog.leiweb.it/marinaterragni/files/2008/12/betoniera-46.jpg
I know probably it wouldn't be ok for drying, but it can contain much more barley per batch.

 

[Brewbecca]

Ok maybe I've been a little too enthusiastic, some seeds are heated (but I know where they come from don't I? grown in my field), but it's quite difficult to peel them, the perling is very thin.
I decided I'm going to kiln anyway, I'm too curious to get my first malt!
Probably it will be pale ale, the simplest one, and if everything is ok, I'll toast some a bit more.
Hope not to fill the house with smoke!

 

[Brewbecca]

Kilned in two stages, my kitchen oven is not too big. It smells good, like toasted, it tastes like malt ahahah
Have to wait for brewing thought, till august when vacations come.
In the meantime I'm waiting for the book to arrive, and thinking about how to dry and kiln bigger quantities of barley. I was thinking about insulating a room in an old house, or building a hut; 212 fahreneit are not low temperature, so I think this must be planned. I'm not very into DIY up to now
I think I also have to use propanum as a source of heat, than a burner and something to spread the heat. Ideas?

(last night I couldn't sleep and I started looking for old harvester-threshers from the '20s and '30s ahah those were machine... first applications of combustion engines, before it was steam power)

 

[COLObrewer]

There is a whole series of floor maltings videos on youtube that may be helpful or at least give you some ideas, the best (most detailed) that I've found are for Highland Park Whiskey, the malting process is basically the same for beer and whiskey:
, .

One of the major differences is that most whiskey malt is dried/kilned with smoke.
There are more in the series, just do a search on youtube.

Keep on malting my friends

 

[Brewbecca]

Thanks for the links. It's very interesting findind that still nowadays there are guys revolting barley with a shovel on the floor. I was thinking about doing something similar. I've got a big room I could convert to malting floor, too bad the floor itself is wooden, I should put another layer for laying the barley.

Anyway, the best video I found on youtube typing "malting floor" is this one:



:rockin:

 

[Absinthe]

just joined the forums and i thought id share a vid on how i make all my own malts (i dont buy ANY malt anymore )








as for the steep the "hole in my bucket method" is idiot proof and works every time for me, i have also never needed to add any moisture during the malting in fact every time i have (the early days) i got bad mould infections, try and keep the malt at less than 15°C during the malting to help prevent this, also adding moisture just means you have more to dry off when kilning.

so far i have malted about 200kg on the floor and im upto about 70kg in my new rolling malt prover (vid should be up tomorrow im uploading it to youtube now)

 

[Brewbecca]

Hello fellow maltsters
I've been busy a bit in other matters, so I neglected the malting process for a while; I'm still at malting batch no 1, the one with the black ends. I'm also waiting for some autumn to come, to have cooler temperatures during the germinating/couching phase.
Anyway I'm glad to announce two things: 1st, I'm going to brew the first beer with my homemade malt on monday!
2nd and more important: I just received the book Malts and malting, ordered on the 23rd of july, extimated delivery mid september, arrived 2 days ago! what can I say, it's huge, big, massive, heavy, thick of informations. I will need time to read and interpret it, since english is not my mother language and many times the terms used are beyond my comprehension. So i just decided to have a vocabulary beside the book, it's much useful!

Absinthe: thanks for posting your videos. I like the roller very much. I haven't decided yet wether to have a single vessel that contains the grains from steeping to kilning, or to have the good old malting floor. I hope the book will clear the ideas.

Keep malting!

 

[Brewbecca]

Hey guys
so I'm almost done with the brewing. We had several "accidents", so probably it won't be the best beer ever
Anyway, we had some problems that might be related to my malt, so here they are, hoping any of you have got answers:
1) even if we had a "saccarification" (?) step of more than 2 hours, the iodine test has been negative all through. So I reckon the starch didn't modify into sugars. So did the malt have no starch? no enzymes? how could I prevent this to happen?
2) we had problems with filtering the must. Some malt somehow "melted" into a kind of viscous jelly; well, not as bad as this, just to give an idea. My brewer friend told me that usually this doesn't happen with the malt he gets from internet. Again, any suggestion on how to prevent this during the malting process?
Thanks guys. Keep malting!?!

 

[COLObrewer]

. . . . no enzymes? how could I prevent this to happen?

Sounds like you didn't get any or very little modification?

2) . . . a kind of viscous jelly; . . . Again, any suggestion on how to prevent this during the malting process?

Sounds like the starches were gelatinized and didn't have the enzymes to convert it.

It's hard to suggest any remedies without specific timelines and temperatures of your process . . . . However, in your statement a few posts ago where you had overmodified malts in 48 hours was very hard for me to believe, Possibly in the very fast malting process there wasn't enough time for the enzymes to be released and/or be created or they didn't have time to "unpack" the starches?

This could possibly be partially remedied by a Beta-glucan rest during the mash, did your brewer do a step mash at all or just one step at saccarification temp?

 

[Clayton]

1) even if we had a "saccarification" (?) step of more than 2 hours, the iodine test has been negative all through. So I reckon the starch didn't modify into sugars. So did the malt have no starch? no enzymes? how could I prevent this to happen?

what do you mean by " negative" do you mean the iodine did not turn blue? or did turn blue?.. if you mean it did not turn blue it could be the the convertion happond quickly. there are alot of times when i brew a no adjunct beer that the bulk of the convertion is done in 20 min or so, even more so with fresh malt. i dont kiln (heat dry)my base malt other than an hr in the dryer, and it is super active, please clarify.

 

[Brewbecca]

The iodine was black. I kilned my malt 2 hours at about 212 fahreneit in my house oven. We used only the malt I made, so in the pot there was just my malt and water.

My opinion is that there was lack of enzymes in the malt. So the starches couldn't convert in sugars (black iodine) and the starches gelatinized and obstructed the filter.

What we did is (if I remember correctly): 15 min at 113F, 30 min at 131F, 1 hour at 149F and then 10 minutes mash out at 174F. The temps might be a little different, I don't remember them exactly.

The final result was descouraging: colour like cappuccino, a bit viscous and a kind of suspension like mashed lentils. Make me feel thirsty

Finally, how to prevent this during the germination: really don't know. Maybe I should improve this "couching" to slow down the process. But how to limitate the air (oxygen) without having a rise in the temperature and formation of mould?

 

[Clayton]

how did you make malt witrh no emzines
just for fun add some beano ASAP.
http://www.beanogas.com/?redirectfrom=www.beano.net

 

[COLObrewer]

how did you make malt witrh no emzines
just for fun add some beano ASAP.
http://www.beanogas.com/?redirectfrom=www.beano.net

+1, I would have thought if the barley grew, it would have to have at least some enzymes?

That mash schedule should have worked, I suggest you read the book you got. Maybe that will shed some light and possibly after that you can tell US a few things about malting, I wish I could afford "Malts and Malting"

 

[Brewbecca]

how did you make malt witrh no emzines

I really don't know, that's the problem!
Few things I'm sure of: I grew a kind of barley specific for malting (at least that's what I requested, there might be a chance of a mistake in the delivering, but I'd exclude it at the moment). It grew well, the grains are quite big. I followed the basic malting procedure, that is steeping/aerating, then germinating in a malting floor, then drying then kilning. It even had a nice malt smell. But it turned out to be without enzymes.

So the only odd things that happened is that ultra fast germination: that might be the problem but, again, I don't know how to prevent it.
Or, there's something else I don't know. Then I'm also eager to read that book, but since I've got plenties other things to do, it will be a slow reading. Then I will explain you everything I got. Then we can even start a new branch in the forum, or a new forum at all!

But in the meantime... LOL

 

[Absinthe]

if it malted super fast then its getting to hot during malting (more than 20°C is to hot) and your malt has "bolted" 48 hours is way to quick and are you looking at the shoot or the roots? the roots are no indicator you need to open the grain and look at the agrospire. it should just be at the end of the grain with some of them just exiting the grain. you need to dry the malt at no more than about 40°C till its crunchy before kilning.

it sounds like you didnt let it malt far enough, same as my first few attempts at malting, it should take 7 days from steeping to be ready any faster than this and your malt has bolted and wont be as effective.

the gelatinousness goo that you got sounds like it still has proteins in the starch (ie not malted enough)

you do NOT want to limit the air its not a problem for the malting, it helps stop mold and the temp rising. thats all my rotating drum does it replaces the malting floor, i dont steep or dry or kiln in the drum only malt

 

[Brewbecca]

Hello fellow maltsters, just an upgrade on my malting experiments.

Few days ago I started malting a second batch of barley (it would be the third, but I don't coun't the one I threw away because it had drowned). The climate tricked me: after a week at about 70 F, it turned suddenly to about 90, just in the day I set the malt on the floor for germination. Result: today, after about 50 hours, it's malted superfast again. Well, some less than the previous attempt: this time in most of the grains the acrosphire's length is 50-75% of the grain's length. Anyway, I sent the batch to the drying stage, because I'm going to use a different method: a room on the upper floor of the house (the 2nd), temp about 85 F and a good flow of air. So it's not that hot: probably the barley will go on germinating a while, than start drying. It's a kind of wind drying, I'm curious to see the results!!

Just a bit of other informations: I noticed the black ends show even after steeping, so it's not related to the drying phase. Then I had a look to my reserve of grains, the grains threshed and then untouched: I think I can see in some of them a bluish that might become the black end after steeping. So it could be someting related to my growing. BTW, it's the end not attached to the ear.

After one week, the beer we brewed has been changed of vessel (don't know the reasons or the technical names for this operation ): it tastes sweet but not bad. Found with low density, so we added some more yeast, even if I fear that this will reduce the thickness of the taste. What could we add when we pour it in the final bottles?
If in the end it tastes good, we will try another brew with the second superfast malt, this time adding some malt very rich with enzymes. Any suggestion about this?

Keep malting!

 

[hops4me]

Way Cool! I am in the threshing stage. I will be malting as soon as the temp. gets cooler Thank for the info and pictures. I think this will really help. I still have another plot fo Barley growing should be ready for harvest in a month.

 

[EcuBrew]

Making Malt:

rinse well, several times.
Soak @10 - 12C:
Large kernels: 60hrs
Small: 40hrs
Change water as often as possible, at least twice a day, first time after 6hrs.*For the last soak add a bit of hydrated lime if possible, to avoid development of bacteria during germination.
In the end, drain well.
I use my lautertun with the false bottom for all of the above ( my drain is in the bottom).
Put in a pile and keep at 14-18C inside the pile, (adjust layer thickness, watch closely, it's not good when the malt gets too hot!!!).
Turn often and decrease pile height as necessary. Let the sprout (don't mistake the little roots for sprouts!!!) grow to 3/4 of the length of the kernel. You need to "open" the kernel to check, the sprout remains hidden.
At that point, spread out very thin and let air dry. If there’s not enough air movement, use a fan. In the industry malt is usually dried with heat, but you always need to do some air-drying first.
I try to make malt in early spring when it is still cold enough in the basement, but warm enough upstairs to spread out the green malt on a plastic sheet where I simply use a fan. Turn the malt often to make it dry evenly. This way it takes very little energy, so it doesn’t matter if it takes a bit longer.
I never had any problems with mold.

You could use the malt in 3 different ways:
Green:
Use the malt immediately when the sprout is long enough, without any drying. Put through a meat grinder (fine enough screen) and mash.
Air dried only:
Dry with air only. Could also be done in the sun. Spread very thin!
When dry enough grind coarsely before mashing. Rolling the malt is better.
Air dried + heat dried:
Make sure not to overheat (absolute max = 80C for a pale malt / base malt), it would kill too many or all of your enzymes that you need for converting the starch into sugar thru mashing.

Remember that you could use part malt / part raw grain for making beer. Start with no less than 50% malt until you have more experience.
1kg of malt / grain should give you 5 litres of beer with 5 % alc. This is when you do a good job…
I suggest not trying to lager beer too long, but drink it as fresh as possible, like they used to (had to) in the old days. I always start drinking mine before it has even stopped fermenting. Gives a real Vit B- complex boost!!!

 

[Jaellis]

So I am not sure what happened, but I think my barley drown. This is my first attempt at malting so I figured I would screw up a batch or two.

soak 1: 8 hours
drain 1: 8 hours, aerated every 2 hours
soak 2: 6 hours
drain 2: 10 hours, aerated at hours 2, 6 and 10
soak 3: 8 hours
drain 3: 8 hours, aerated every 2 hours
I noticed chits had appeared at this stage
soak 4: 4 hours
drain 4: 4 hours, aerated every 2 hours
throughout the process I mixed and aerated the grain.
There was no change all grain stopped after the chits barely formed. I stirred and sprayed with water every 4-8 hours, I noticed a really bad smell and the grain was extremely soft after day 4 and threw the batch out.

Dry weight was 10 lbs. after the last drain the weight was 18.6 lbs. This seems like it absorbed too much water, from what I read (after the fact) we are shooting for around 35% - 45% moisture content, but it appears that I had 75% - 85%.

Am I understanding this correct? I have 50 lbs to play with so I am trying another bath doing cycles of 2 hour soak and 8 hour draining until the weight reaches 140% of the original weight(i.e. 10 lbs dry should weigh 14 lbs after the last draining).

I am just looking for a confirmation that that was my mistake, or if I am doing something else wrong.

 

[COLObrewer]

I start couching the grain after the chits appear, maybe they did drown. How are you aerating and what temperature was the water during the soaks? What temperature was it after the last soak? Did you couch them at all, maybe they overheated?

 

[Jaellis]

I start couching the grain after the chits appear, maybe they did drown. How are you aerating and what temperature was the water during the soaks? What temperature was it after the last soak? Did you couch them at all, maybe they overheated?

To be honest, I am not sure the temperatures, I found this thread when I was searching for what happened. I aerate by transferring the barley back into the bucket I use for soaking and put a lid on the bucket with no water just the drained barley and roll it slowly at least 5 full turns, sometimes more depending on how easily I am amused at the moment. Then transfer back to the strainer. I am not sure of the temps because I didn't know to take the temps until I read this thread. But tap water here is about 65 - 70 degrees, before the last soak I did notice it was warm but not what I would call hot. After the last soak it felt near room temp, mid 70s. How hot is too hot? I spread out the grains after the fourth soak, (this is couching right?) But then saw no further modification.

 

[passedpawn]

Happiness is: this thread. While I might put this off till retirement, I'll do it one day. Until then, I do it vicariously through you home-malting pioneers. Cheers!

 

[ghohn]

I was super stringent about the soak times but found a bucket with a few small holes really does the trick. I've got it in my bathroom so when ever I'm in there, ahem, about twice a day, I fill the bucket with tap water. It takes about 30-60 minutes to slow drain out. The grains are quite happy.

you do NOT want to limit the air its not a problem for the malting, it helps stop mold and the temp rising. thats all my rotating drum does it replaces the malting floor, i dont steep or dry or kiln in the drum only malt

I've malted a lot of grain using the traditional malting floor. Absinthe I'm REALLY curious about your setup with the drum. Can you please post us some photos?

 

[COLObrewer]

. . . . . I spread out the grains after the fourth soak, (this is couching right?) But then saw no further modification.

Did you keep them moist during the couching phase? Also, tell us about your barley grain, where did you get it? The temperatures you are talking about shouldn't be too hot to kill the grain unless your couching bed was too thick. The malt creates heat when malting but it sounds like this is where it stopped, I would think if it was moist and had chitted, it would bolt at those temperatures.