I think I might have a "Beer and Wine" bucket that came with my starter kit, but I'm not 100% sure if it's that or a Ale Pale. In any event, I'll check when I get home from work tonight.
Haier NuCool for fermentation
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I think I might have a "Beer and Wine" bucket that came with my starter kit, but I'm not 100% sure if it's that or a Ale Pale. In any event, I'll check when I get home from work tonight.
I see a potential issue, albeit very small, in the upper-right-hand corner of this pic.
Does anyone know the wavelength of light put out by the LED and its propensity to cause mercaptan production? Since it stays on all the time, I'd hate to find out after a couple weeks that it did the dirty deed.
lmg95
Well-Known Member
UV light is somewhere under 400nm and typically most LEDs are a "single" wavelength and at 460nm... so it's probably safe
carbon111
Well-Known Member
Greetings all! I just jumped on board here. What a great fourm!
After reading this thread, I went out and purchased one of these from my local Target. It's a nice little cooler and at 79 bucks a pretty good deal. I have been looking for an inexpensive solution to fermenting beers in the desert.
Anyway, I got this thing home and put one of my 6.5 gallon glass carboys in it with a 3-piece airlock fitted with a stopper and it was pretty tight. I mean I could get it in but it was exactly the same height, so it was a bit of a wedge with the airlock shoved as far into the stopper as i could get it and pushed into the carboy.
It should not be a problem to take off about 1/4 inch off the airlock cup with a dremel and it would fit perfectly. Looks like there is plenty of room between the bobber and the airlock lid.
The cooler seems to work good, it's been holding at 41 degrees in my 80 degree kitchen. It is empty now but I'll put some stuff in it later and see how it goes.
Thanks for the tip on a cheap and what seems to be efficient fermenter!
After reading this thread, I went out and purchased one of these from my local Target. It's a nice little cooler and at 79 bucks a pretty good deal. I have been looking for an inexpensive solution to fermenting beers in the desert.
Anyway, I got this thing home and put one of my 6.5 gallon glass carboys in it with a 3-piece airlock fitted with a stopper and it was pretty tight. I mean I could get it in but it was exactly the same height, so it was a bit of a wedge with the airlock shoved as far into the stopper as i could get it and pushed into the carboy.
It should not be a problem to take off about 1/4 inch off the airlock cup with a dremel and it would fit perfectly. Looks like there is plenty of room between the bobber and the airlock lid.
The cooler seems to work good, it's been holding at 41 degrees in my 80 degree kitchen. It is empty now but I'll put some stuff in it later and see how it goes.
Thanks for the tip on a cheap and what seems to be efficient fermenter!
Welcome! Glad this thing is working out for you. 40 degrees in an 80 degree kitchen seems pretty good. I'm actually pretty suprised the 6.5 gallon fermenter fit. That's good news.
I never thought about modifying the actual airlock--that's a pretty good idea.
As for the question on the "beer and wine" bucket from earlier in the day: I don't have one after all. Mine is a brew bucket--it looks pretty similar to the B&W, but I'm really not sure about the dimensions. Anyway, the brew bucket does not look like it will fit, or if it does, it is REALLY tight. It would take major door panel destruction just to have half a chance of fitting, and I'm not planning on going that far, so I can't really say if it is possible or not.
I had planned on installing the love controller and getting this thing set up this weekend, but it turns out I need to go out of town. Thus, some time next week I should have another write up on my Love Controller installation, etc...
EvilGnome6
Well-Known Member
Maybe this would be a good option for the 6.5 gallon carboys:
Silicone Stopper - Vented
I ran across it on the Northern Brewer site a few days ago. Works as a stopper as well as an airlock and it looks like it would barely add an inch to the height of a carboy.
Silicone Stopper - Vented
I ran across it on the Northern Brewer site a few days ago. Works as a stopper as well as an airlock and it looks like it would barely add an inch to the height of a carboy.
I should clarify that I just put the 6.5 gal carboy in to test the height. I assume that with the nice door mod that Evilgnome6 did it would fit.
That Silicone Airlock looks pretty cool. It says it works for glass carboys. Do you think it will work with the Better Bottles?
I have never used Better Bottles (they were not out last time I brewed) but I plan to switch over to them. I never had a problem with glass and never even worried about one breaking, but in those days I didn't have a 3 year old assistant brewer.
That Silicone Airlock looks pretty cool. It says it works for glass carboys. Do you think it will work with the Better Bottles?
I have never used Better Bottles (they were not out last time I brewed) but I plan to switch over to them. I never had a problem with glass and never even worried about one breaking, but in those days I didn't have a 3 year old assistant brewer.
dontman
Well-Known Member
Has anyone figured out how to use this thing without an external thermostat? If I have to spend another $50 or $60 to use it as a fermentation chamber it becomes more expensive than wine chillers.
It operates just like a regular refrigerator with a dial inside that has numbers from 1 to 5 (5 being the coldest).
I assume that on 5 its going to keep the inside temp ~35 degrees cooler than the ambient temp of the room it's in.
I had mine on this afternoon set at 5 and it maintained 40 to 42 degrees in a 79 to 80 degree room. I'm not sure how accurate that is because i am using a 14 year old "FermTemp" as the controller, so I'm giving it s couple degrees either way.
Tonight I loaded it up with a case and a half of Costco water and unhooked it from the controller and set it at 4. Ill just try to figure out what the range is between the numbers.
I hope this helps.
I assume that on 5 its going to keep the inside temp ~35 degrees cooler than the ambient temp of the room it's in.
I had mine on this afternoon set at 5 and it maintained 40 to 42 degrees in a 79 to 80 degree room. I'm not sure how accurate that is because i am using a 14 year old "FermTemp" as the controller, so I'm giving it s couple degrees either way.
Tonight I loaded it up with a case and a half of Costco water and unhooked it from the controller and set it at 4. Ill just try to figure out what the range is between the numbers.
I hope this helps.
dontman
Well-Known Member
This is kind of my point. (I think) For fermentation, regular fridge temps are useless. I ferment my lagers at 50 and my ales at from 62 to 76.
So I guess the question is, is there a setting on the fridge's dial which would allow you to hit 62 degrees, because if not then an external temp controller is necessary and they can get pricy.
But being realistic, I would not expect that high a setting and don't really even need it. My basement maintains a perfect 62-63 degrees in the Summer, so it is perfect for nice ales.
What I do wonder is if one of those 1-5 settings will maintain 50 degrees? Because if it does then I don't need an external controller and this thing actually does become a cheap fermentation controller.
Missed this part:
Yes that would be wonderfully helpful, especially the #1 setting, which would then give us the coldest and the wamest temps that this fridge could maintain.
lamarguy
Well-Known Member
Correct, the "temperature" controls on any fridge are useless for controlling fermentation temperature. They control ambient air temperature, which is significantly different than wort temperature during fermentation.
So, yes, you will need an external temperature controller to accurately control the temperature of the fermenting beer.
dontman
Well-Known Member
This point is not really relevent to the discussion since a Love controller measures the air too (unless you have the probe placed improperly.) The question is whether one of the native settings on the fridge will set the same temp as any controller I would connect.
lamarguy
Well-Known Member
Disagree.
A Love controller is a mechanical relay that measures and controls temperature to within ±1F (depending on the probe location). The factory controller uses PWM to regulate power to the thermoelectric device and does not measure temperature.
So, the factory controller applies constant cooling power, regardless of the ambient temperature of the room or the thermal energy of the contents in the fridge.
fartingdog
Well-Known Member
It's a peltier cooling device, the walls would be insulation- I looked at a smaller version a while ago since I was planning to hijack the peltier from it. all the electronics are on the back.
dontman
Well-Known Member
My thermoelectric wine cooler maintains perfect fermentation temps using this same PWM. I set it for 47 to account for exothermic reaction and the wort maintains a perfect 50 until fermentation slows when I adjust the control to 50.
Similarly, my other ferment fridge maintains a steady 47 at 4.5 setting on the dial. This also maintains a perfect 50 degree ferment. I ease it up to 5 as ferment slows.
My walk-in fridge uses a love controller set to 36 with a 2 degree dead zone and I have the probe measuring the temp basically dangling from the ceiling inside. It is measuring the ambient air.
3 different methods of getting a steady temp. All equally effective. Point is, just because they are different doesn't mean they aren't qualified to do the job well. Funny thing is, the ferment fridge is being used for ferment because it sucks at being a fridge. The coldest I can get anything inside is 43. But it works perfectly as a ferment fridge.
Most fridges do not go this warm though and this is my only concern here, not the relative merits of mechanical relay versus PWM.
Similarly, my other ferment fridge maintains a steady 47 at 4.5 setting on the dial. This also maintains a perfect 50 degree ferment. I ease it up to 5 as ferment slows.
My walk-in fridge uses a love controller set to 36 with a 2 degree dead zone and I have the probe measuring the temp basically dangling from the ceiling inside. It is measuring the ambient air.
3 different methods of getting a steady temp. All equally effective. Point is, just because they are different doesn't mean they aren't qualified to do the job well. Funny thing is, the ferment fridge is being used for ferment because it sucks at being a fridge. The coldest I can get anything inside is 43. But it works perfectly as a ferment fridge.
Most fridges do not go this warm though and this is my only concern here, not the relative merits of mechanical relay versus PWM.
lamarguy
Well-Known Member
Right, I'm not saying you can't manually monitor and adjust for fermentation temperature variances. That's certainly not "ideal", but it clearly works.
My point is - the NuCool fridge lacks a thermostat, thus, there is no reliable method for temperature adjustment. Your wine cooler has a temperature sensor, which provides a basis for relative adjustment.
For example, if you set an empty NuCool fridge to "3", the ambient temperature may be a steady 50F. Now, put a bucket of fermenting wort in the same fridge and the ambient temperature may rise to a steady 55F. This is because the cooling power stayed constant, regardless of the heat produced by the fermenting wort.
Without a temperature sensor (analog or digital), I just see this method as fundamentally flawed and subject to wide temperature swings.
EvilGnome6
Well-Known Member
I currently have my NuCool at the warmest setting and it has been holding between 45F-47F all day. My ambient temperature is about 80F. Not sure what people lager at but it's definitely too cold for ales without an external controller.
carbon111
Well-Known Member
dontman
Well-Known Member
Yeah, Evil, I'm getting pretty much the same temp. I ferment my lagers at 50 so it is a touch too cold for that although it is very close.
As far as inexpensive controllers Eastern Precision (I think that's the name) has a JC A19 unwired for $44 plus shipping.
I got one of those off ebay for $39 delivered.
Then there is the no name unit from CHI. I also have one of these. It sells for $35 plus shipping. It is prewired with a piggyback though so that saves a couple bucks and time that you might spend for the wiring. It works fine once you figure out its deadspace. It has a 3 degree swing and works really well if you build a thermowell for it.
As far as inexpensive controllers Eastern Precision (I think that's the name) has a JC A19 unwired for $44 plus shipping.
I got one of those off ebay for $39 delivered.
Then there is the no name unit from CHI. I also have one of these. It sells for $35 plus shipping. It is prewired with a piggyback though so that saves a couple bucks and time that you might spend for the wiring. It works fine once you figure out its deadspace. It has a 3 degree swing and works really well if you build a thermowell for it.
Has anyone tried to put a 6.5 gal glass carboy in this yet? I'm thinking the acid carboys will be too wide, but if the regular ones work I might invest in it.
I saw that the BBs fit in there, but I'm not sure how I feel about them yet...
I saw that the BBs fit in there, but I'm not sure how I feel about them yet...
First of all, UV isn't light (had a prof in college that was adamant about this-- it's "radiation").
But more to the point, I was under the impression that it wasn't UV that caused the problem, but other wavelengths.
I brewed an Irish Red this weekend, and took the Haier NuCool for it's initial run. Seems to be working out so far. It got the temp. of the wort/beer down to 63-64 in less than an hour I think (from 75*, 6 gallons)... I think the real test will be a lager...
Since I didn't see this addressed, AFAIK, these are for secondary fermentation, e.g. - low outgassing rates. Typically used for long term aging on wine. Not a direct replacement for an airlock, but might be OK for secondary?
lamarguy
Well-Known Member
How were you measuring the temperature of the wort?
Sorry, the numbers just don't make sense. I have a frost-free upright freezer that consumes 440 watts (400 watts minus the fan) and is ~50% efficient. The NuCool consumes 100 watts and is only ~10% efficient (based on the Carnot cycle).
My forced air upright freezer requires 1hr to cool 6 gallons of wort from 75F to 65F. I think you see the problem...
Valid point. I measured using the Love controller probe taped to the side of the carboy, and wrapped on the outside with about 2 or 3 (clean) gym socks for insulation. To put it another way: the probe is taped right on the carboy side wall (it's a better bottle), and is wrapped on the other side with the socks and duct tape. The unit is in a basement that is ambient 67-69*.
A few thoughts: First, I didn't time the thing exactly--my numbers are just estimates--so maybe it was longer, or my initial wort was cooler than 75* (that's where it was the last time I had checked it, but admittedly, I didn't check it right away when I put it in the fridge). Second, the reading I got was off the Love controller probe, which might not be accurate--I haven't calibrated it against anything else yet. Third, the ambient air temperature inside the fridge may have been messing with the probe itself (i.e., my insulation job may not have worked at all, so maybe it was reading the air temp rather than the wort temp). I'm sure a thermowell would be more accurate.
Over the past week the Love controller has been reading a fairly steady 63-64* every time I walk past it. I don't know how often the fridge is turning on to keep that level, but I don't think I've witnessed it in the on cylce since I put the carboy in there last weekend. Overall, the point of my post was that I had some pretty big fears that the thing just wouldn't cool the wort down enough, quickly enough. While I've put those fears aside for ale temps, like I said, I'm really interested in seeing if this thing can handle lager temps.
Next time I brew I'll try to take accurate readings and re-post my results.
A few thoughts: First, I didn't time the thing exactly--my numbers are just estimates--so maybe it was longer, or my initial wort was cooler than 75* (that's where it was the last time I had checked it, but admittedly, I didn't check it right away when I put it in the fridge). Second, the reading I got was off the Love controller probe, which might not be accurate--I haven't calibrated it against anything else yet. Third, the ambient air temperature inside the fridge may have been messing with the probe itself (i.e., my insulation job may not have worked at all, so maybe it was reading the air temp rather than the wort temp). I'm sure a thermowell would be more accurate.
Over the past week the Love controller has been reading a fairly steady 63-64* every time I walk past it. I don't know how often the fridge is turning on to keep that level, but I don't think I've witnessed it in the on cylce since I put the carboy in there last weekend. Overall, the point of my post was that I had some pretty big fears that the thing just wouldn't cool the wort down enough, quickly enough. While I've put those fears aside for ale temps, like I said, I'm really interested in seeing if this thing can handle lager temps.
Next time I brew I'll try to take accurate readings and re-post my results.
lamarguy
Well-Known Member
Ya, I hope you don't think I'm raining on your parade, I'm just trying to ensure the numbers are realistic. I've experimented with a thermoelectic wine cooler in the past and, while it works great at maintaining ~65F during active fermentation in a 78F room, it's absolutely horrible at cooling down a thermal mass from 75F to 65F.
Therefore, I would expect similar results from your efforts - great at maintaining fermentation temperature, horrible at large (10+ degree) temperature drops.
For your next experiment, I would encourage you to use a thermowell or drop a sanitized thermometer in the wort to get an accurate measurement. That's how I measure the temperature in my upright freezer.
i just picked up a NuCool from craigslist. chopping into it now.
Not at all.
I have exactly the same concerns as you with the big temp swings. Thinking about it more this afternoon, I figured that I'm going to crash cool this batch in about a week or two. Instead of taking it out of the Haier and dropping it into my keezer, I think I'll instead try to do it in place in the Haier. I need to do a diacatyl rest too, so I'll first raise the temp up to 70* for a few days, then drop in a thermowell or drop in a sanitized probe, then drop the Love controller down to 40* to see how fast the thing does a 30* drop. It won't be fighting the heat generated by fermentation, but at least it will tell me how quick I can drop 30* in this thing, which may be a useful datapoint in and of itself...
EvilGnome6
Well-Known Member
I had a 5 gallon batch at 77F that I wanted to drop to 60F. I have a Love controller with the probe duct taped to the side of a glass carboy. I set the temperature at about 11:00AM and by 7:00PM it was down to about 65F.
My house is at 78F.
This seems a little more reasonable. About 1-2 degrees per hour. Which isn't necessarily a bad thing since you're less likely to shock the yeast with slow drops.
Just following up on this thread with another data point (paying a bit closer attention this time). I pitched today at 74*F at a few minutes before noon--I was up at 6AM brewing this morning--talk about dedication! I set the Love controller for 50*F (it's a lager). It is now about 9:30PM, and the probe reads 58*F. That's about a 16*F temp drop in about 10 hours if my math is right. Let's call it a degree and a half per hour so far...
Basment ambient is currently about 70*F.
Basment ambient is currently about 70*F.
lamarguy
Well-Known Member
Thanks for following up! 1.5F/hr sounds much more realistic.
The ambient temperature clearly plays a small factor in the performance, but it's really a question of how close to pitching temperature you can get before placing the fermenter in the NuCool. With my freezer, if I get within 10F, I only have to wait up to an hour to get to pitching temperature. But, I live in satan's armpit so I need a lot of cooling horsepower...
dontman
Well-Known Member
I tend to agree about the pitching temp thing. If you are waiting the 10 hours until the wort hits 68 to pitch the yeast that seems a little long. If you are pitching at 77 and then waiting 10 hours for the nucool to cool it down to mid 60's with the yeast already in it then that can can definitely be too long.
I tend to chill into the 60's with my chiller and then pitching and just using the nucool to maintain the temp.
I tend to chill into the 60's with my chiller and then pitching and just using the nucool to maintain the temp.
chuggs
Well-Known Member
I need to know that too. I always use a 6.5 gal glass carboy for primary...rubber stopper and airlock on top. It's a must if I'm going to use the Haier NuCool... It would be a bonus if my JT's glass blowoff tube would fit inside too... I usually keep it on until the krausen starts to die off.
Thx!
Thanks for following up! 1.5F/hr sounds much more realistic.
The ambient temperature clearly plays a small factor in the performance, but it's really a question of how close to pitching temperature you can get before placing the fermenter in the NuCool. With my freezer, if I get within 10F, I only have to wait up to an hour to get to pitching temperature. But, I live in satan's armpit so I need a lot of cooling horsepower...
No problem. My immersion chiller did a pretty good job yesterday, it got the wort down to 74 pretty quickly, but I was in a hurry to get to an appointment, so I didn't bother hooking up the prechiller to try to drop it more.
Had I taken the time, then I don't think the "cooling power" of the unit would not really have been an issue at all. It is currently holding 50*F with no problem. I don't know how long it took to get to 50*F itself, but it was there when I woke up this AM. So, it was less than 18 hours total. So, not 100% sure exactly how long it took to take 24-25* off the wort, but it's certainly not more than 18 hours (i.e., 1.3*F per hour). Two take away points: 1) this thing does probably 1.5*F per hour, but 1.3*F per hour minimum; and 2) it apparently did not slow down the colder it got (i.e., I don't think it struggled for those last few degrees).
So, I think the next test is to see if it can handle a real lagering temp (35-40ish). After my primary ferment is done, I'll try it and report back again. Worst case scenario: I'll just do the lager phase in my keezer, which was my original intent anyway...
My late-season Oktoberfest is bubbling away nicely at the moment.
EvilGnome6
Well-Known Member
Just as an update. The 5 and 6 gallon Better Bottles fit perfectly using a stopper and 3 piece airlock. It leaves 2 inches of clearance:
Oh, yeah. Both the 5 gallon and 6 gallon Better Bottles require the shelves to be cut out.
Oh, yeah. Both the 5 gallon and 6 gallon Better Bottles require the shelves to be cut out.
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