Growler ?

[Riles8148]

My question relating to growlers is about conditioning....I have repetitively have been disappointed in the quality of beer that comes from my growlers. I am wondering if anyone else have had issues.

 

[DoubleAught]

I'm not trying to sound smart, but how would the container you're conditioning in make a lower quality beer? I've conditioned in growlers, PET bottles, 16 oz swing top, and normal 12 oz bottles. The product going in is the product coming out. Maybe it's something else causing the quality issues?

 

[Riles8148]

The poor quality I am describing is the beer being flat.

 

[Revvy]

The poor quality I am describing is the beer being flat.

Consider yourself lucky then, Your growler might explode long before it gets the chance to carbonate....Growlers are meant to hold carbonaTED beer, not carbonATING beer. There is a difference.

To carb a beer whether or not is is done naturally or with co2 you are forcing the gas into the solution. The pressure builds up, then there's a point where either the bottle fails or the co2, seeking the path of least resistance, forces itself into solution. You could call it a peak point, where there is a lot of pressure in the bottle, both already in solution and in the headspace trying to go into the solution, eventually it balances out and the beer is carbed.

Beer bottles, champagne bottles and kegs are rated with a higher psi/volume of co2 than wine bottles and growlers.

Already carbed and kegged beer is at a stable volume of co2 which is below the volume that growlers and winebottles are rated at. The FORCING of the co2 already happened. Why do you think kegs are made of metal and very very strong? To handle the pressure.

Our Buddy Rukus

This is because during carbing, the pressure can go above 30 or 40 PSI. I have a thread in the cider forum where I did several tests bottle carbing sweet hard cider. There is allot of data there if your interested.

I have a bottle with a pressure gauge on it. I recorded pressures during the carbing process. This is how the data was generated. I also recorded pressures while pasteurizing the cider.

I recently bottled some lager I made. I also filled my gauge bottle and my lower pressure gauge bottle pegged at 35 PSI as that was the limit of the gauge. It probably ended up in the 40's, but no way to tell for sure.


When we bottle condition beer, we are really simulating force carbing like the keg folks do. We cause a ferment by adding sugar. This creates a high pressure in the bottle. CO2 doesn't like to dissolve in a warm liquid. We then put some bottles in the fridge. The temperature of the liquid drops and the CO2 then begins to dissolve in the liquid.

It seems to take several days at fridge temperatures for the CO2 to fully saturate the liquid for a maximum saturation for that liquid temperature.

While the CO2 is moving into the liquid, the pressure slowly drops. I've monitored this process as well with the pressure gauge.

Pressures go way higher than folks think while bottle conditioning. In the following data, I carbed sweet hard cider and stopped the carbing and then pasteurized the cider when the bottle was at 22 PSI. My Lager went above 35 PSI. The data doesn't show the extremes the pressure rises with beer as I stopped the cider at 22 PSI, but it would have continued if i hadn't stopped it.

The gauge bottle has a nice side effect, it tells you when your bottles are conditioned as the pressure rise stops. I then throw them in the Fridge to cold condition for several days before I open. The gauge also tells you when they are carbed as the pressure drop stops. Pretty basic really.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f32/bottle-carbing-idea-final-data-review-205862/

No, when you bottle condition, the slight fermentation we cause by adding priming sugar just builds pressure up in the bottle. The pressures seem to go up into the 30's and 40's PSI from what I've seen.

The CO2 doesn't really move into the liquid until the temperature drops. Some CO2 may, but not the majority of it. CO2 doesn't dissolve into solution until a lower temperature.

This is really what we do when we force carb in a keg. We raise the pressure up when the beer is cold. The CO2 moves into the solution. The tap pressure is lowered for proper delivery and the beer either sets for cold aging, or it is consumed at that time.

What you would see with the pressure gauge (if you use one bigger than my first bottle had. Should use a 100 PSI Gauge) is that the pressure climbs over time and will level off.

Once the pressure levels off, that means all of the priming sugar has been used up by the yeast. Next, you put them into the fridge. You will see the pressure drop over several days. Eventually, it also will level off. I like to let them sit for a few more days after that, but really if the pressure stops dropping, all of the CO2 that can be dissolved at that temperature has been achieved.
.

I think it goes down to this.....is it worth playing Russian Roulette with your money and the time you spent bringing your brew along from grain to bottling day???

 

[DoubleAught]

I could see that. I use these polyseal caps when I condition in growlers.

http://www.northernbrewer.com/shop/28mm-polyseal-screw-30ct.html

I'll get a flat one every now and then, but this has helped. How long are you allowing them to condition? Also be prepared to get responses about how you shouldn't condition in growlers. I normally only condition low carb'd beer in growlers.

 

[Riles8148]

Thanks for sharing the knowledge...it makes sense

 

[JasonToews]

I knew Revvy would reply to this hehe, good job Revvy keeping everyone informed!

 

[Riles8148]

So...if I am hearing Revvy correctly It would be a mistake to condition beer in growlers....does anyone out there condition beer in growlers without any problems??? I was told by my home brew store I could do this.....

 

[opus345]

I was told by my home brew store I could do this.....

I hear more stories where the LHBS owner is not as informed or knowledgeable as we expect or hope for. It would be nice to get an opinion from them and then a recommendation about where to go (HBT) to really find the knowledge store.

 

[jonmohno]

They are not built for the psi.Its a gamble.If you overcarbonate or have infection which i have luckily expericence witout blowouts(thanks to sturdy craft bottles)- with a growler you are F'd. My opinion would be to just use them for your favorate brewery refills or after kegging for portability or sharing. A 2 liter pop bottle would be safer.
Because of your flatness issue maybe its because of a leak in your growler seal for carbonation,also.Ive never had that problem bottleing beer,just trying one a week or two too soon maybe when its not ready.