Group Buy: Accuflex Bev-Seal Ultra barrier line

[Demon]

So you're thinking about cutting back to 18ft? If you've done it yet, how is the resulting pour? I have mine at 22 ft. right now and it is definitely a little slower than I'd like.

Not yet. I'm going to cut one line down this weekend to test. I'll post results after I do.

 

[Schrodinger]

[TLDR] The Resistance for this line is 1.16 lb/ft... maybe[/TLDR]

So, I found some data on generic 'barrier tubing' and decided to extrapolate the resistance of our line in lbs/ft.

Judging from the five points of data given for vinyl tube, it seems that Restriction vs. Size (inner diameter) and Restriction vs. Volume (oz. per linear foot) are best fit with exponential curves. This is sensible given the expected response of a tube approaching 0" ID.

I then applied an exponential fit (with and without X offset) to the three points of data given for barrier tubing and extrapolated for a 3/16" ID tube. Size vs. Restriction yields either 1.30 or 0.87 lb/ft with and without an X offset respectively. Fitting Volume vs. Restriction yields 1.16 lb/ft in both cases.

As the Volume vs. Restriction numbers are more consistent, and are within the range given by Size vs. Restriction, I suggest using the value of 1.16 lb/ft for our calculations.

Now to see how this value compares to reality.

Published data comes from here:
http://www.draughtquality.org/Components-of-Balance

And a little warning about making extrapolations:
http://xkcd.com/605/

 

[Gritsak]

Are there any special instructions for cleaning this line? properly diluted BLC?

 

[CidahMastah]

[TLDR] The Resistance for this line is 1.16 lb/ft... maybe[/TLDR]

So, I found some data on generic 'barrier tubing' and decided to extrapolate the resistance of our line in lbs/ft.

Judging from the five points of data given for vinyl tube, it seems that Restriction vs. Size (inner diameter) and Restriction vs. Volume (oz. per linear foot) are best fit with exponential curves. This is sensible given the expected response of a tube approaching 0" ID.

I then applied an exponential fit (with and without X offset) to the three points of data given for barrier tubing and extrapolated for a 3/16" ID tube. Size vs. Restriction yields either 1.30 or 0.87 lb/ft with and without an X offset respectively. Fitting Volume vs. Restriction yields 1.16 lb/ft in both cases.

As the Volume vs. Restriction numbers are more consistent, and are within the range given by Size vs. Restriction, I suggest using the value of 1.16 lb/ft for our calculations.

Now to see how this value compares to reality.

Published data comes from here:
http://www.draughtquality.org/Components-of-Balance

And a little warning about making extrapolations:
http://xkcd.com/605/

So what is there a standard accepted line resistance for the 3/16 bevlex line? I have read for 3/16 bevlex anywhere from 2-3psi. It would be great to have a number so we could solve this as HBers. Or at least know that X feet of bevlex = ~ Xfeet of bevseal.


Thanks for the work on the 1.2 though


If we assume 1.2 is the line resistance and 3.0 is the resistance of the bevlex 3/16:

10ft bevlex = 25ft of Bevseal

if 1.2 = Bevseal and 2.2= bevlex:

10ft bevlex = ~18 ft Bevseal

for 1/4 diameter hose = 10ft bevseal = ~8.5 line resistance (.85r); so with 10ft 3/16 bevseal = ~7ft.


Sounds like a lot of people thought 20 feet was pouring a bit too slow. So I would venture 1.2 is pretty close, if you use 2.2 value for bevseal line.

Of course I am going to screw this all up by using the epoxy mixer sticks, which I have no idea on how much line resistance they add....

 

[BirdmanBrewingCo]

Would people be interested in this if we could offer 100ft for about $33.99 or $34.99, including shipping? If so, we would consider stocking it for you. Would be easier than organizing a group buy. The trade off is you pay a few extra dollars.

Let us know...

 

[CidahMastah]

Would people be interested in this if we could offer 100ft for about $33.99 or $34.99, including shipping? If so, we would consider stocking it for you. Would be easier than organizing a group buy. The trade off is you pay a few extra dollars.

Let us know...

I think so - did you see how fast the rolls of this stuff sold?

I know keg connection had said they planned on buying a reel of the 3/16 after seeing how fast the group buys went.

 

[jsguitar]

Would people be interested in this if we could offer 100ft for about $33.99 or $34.99, including shipping? If so, we would consider stocking it for you. Would be easier than organizing a group buy. The trade off is you pay a few extra dollars.

Let us know...

I have no doubt they would be based on the activity in this thread alone.

 

[Toecutter]

Installed mine yesterday. I used the hot phillips screw driver, needle nose method, and used an electric hair dryer to heat the tubeing. I used 25' each on 2 taps on my tower. Coil and zip tie, and sit the coils on top of the cornies I carb at 12-14 PSI it worked very well. about 1/2" foam on the 1st pour, that was it

 

[megalomani]

Got mine today. Thanks to op for all your efforts. I am curious about this on a beergun. Anyone have an idea if this would work? How much length?

 

[Gritsak]

Picked mine up at the post office this morning. Pretty easy to shove it on the tail piece with boiling water, but i had a bit of a time getting it on the ball lock nipped (i have the type that actually screws the nipple on with a compression fitting). But, it went on fine after several dips and shoves using boiling water. Be careful when you're shoving not to crease the hose. I did this a couple times and ended up cutting back the section a little to make sure there weren't any imperfections.

~20ft at 11-12psi at ~38-40 degrees gives i nice pour. Slightly slower than my 10ft vinyl lines, but they poured a little to fast for my liking anyways. Despite twice the amount of hose, it really doesn't take up much more room since the OD is smaller than vinyl. I used zip ties to keep it coiled up on top of the keg. Once it gets cold the line is pretty rigid.

Pretty surprising how much discoloration occurs with the vinyl hose, even with regular cleanings with BLC. Here's a quick cell phone pick of a section of my old vinyl hose. You can see the dramatic color difference between the section that was on the barb and the part exposed to beer. Line was rinsed with clean water before the pic

 

[SankePankey]

Is everyone finding that 20 ft is needed? I'm using a 7,8,9...

The 7 is too short, but the 8 and 9 are OK. I might have gone 10 or 11, but 20 at 11 PSI?

Anyhoo, just looking for reports...

Anyone have a seltzer line run yet (30-35 PSI?). That's what my 40 ft is supposed to be for (hopefully overkill)

 

[mb2696]

yea i'm at 10ft/38*F/11psi and it seems pretty good. i started at 16ft and it was so slow it didn't even produce a round stream out of the faucet.

 

[Gritsak]

I'm surprised there is such a wide difference in the length everyone is finding adequate. I believe 7-10 seconds to pour a pint is approximately the proper flow rate. I'll time my pour later tonight, but 20ft/40degrees/12psi gives me a good solid pour.

 

[Boleslaus]

My 22 ft. is too slow, 20 ft. is better but slower than I like. I think around 18 ft. is right for my set up.

 

[chemman14]

so it looks like 20 feet should be the starting point?

 

[Gritsak]

so it looks like 20 feet should be the starting point?

I think that's safe. I recall anyone so far that used more than 20ft.

 

[BirdmanBrewingCo]

I have no doubt they would be based on the activity in this thread alone.

FYI - We are now taking pre orders on our site for 100ft. Limited to the first 20 takers.

 

[jsguitar]

This is a very good deal for premium beer line*. If I didn't just buy the 100ft I'd be all over it.

* that you can't get anywhere else in these quantities.

 

[Rolly]

So I'm a little confused about this product and was wondering if someone could help a guy out.

1. What are the benefits of this product over the standard thick wall 3/16 line that my lhbs sells?

2. Why is everyone using 20' of 3/16 ID line? Shouldn't it be more like 10-12?

3. Often in my lighter beers, I notice a plastic taste/aroma in my first pour if the beer has been sitting in the line for a little bit. Does this new type of line not have this problem or something?

3. If I currently have 12 ft 3/16 ID lines in my setup, would I want to buy the 3/16 version of this stuff?

If this line eliminates any plastic flavor, I think I'd be sold.

 

[Gritsak]

So I'm a little confused about this product and was wondering if someone could help a guy out.

1. What are the benefits of this product over the standard thick wall 3/16 line that my lhbs sells?

2. Why is everyone using 20' of 3/16 ID line? Shouldn't it be more like 10-12?

3. Often in my lighter beers, I notice a plastic taste/aroma in my first pour if the beer has been sitting in the line for a little bit. Does this new type of line not have this problem or something?

3. If I currently have 12 ft 3/16 ID lines in my setup, would I want to buy the 3/16 version of this stuff?

If this line eliminates any plastic flavor, I think I'd be sold.

Pretty much all of these answers are somewhere in the thread.

1. See the product description

2. There is less resistance in this line compared to vinyl, hence the longer lengths needed

3. Yes, this line should eliminate the plastic off-flavor.

4. Yes, you want 3/16", but see #2.

 

[Demon]

Despite my early concerns, I have decided to stick with 20 feet. Bumped my pressure up to 12.5psi over the past 6 days. Perfect flow and head on every glass.

 

[Flomaster]

temp + PSI = co2 volumes per style

line length is simply balancing YOUR system. 20' for Demon works fine, but 20FT for me and i'd be waiting 30 seconds to pour a pint of beer.

use this chart here to get your proper volumes of CO2.
http://www.kegerators.com/carbonation-table.php

now that said I have 10FT beer lines at 32F-36F depending on my keezers cycling. with my Tower taps sitting directly on the keezer lid.

the only thing line length should do is pour faster or slower, but a short line and high PSI could equal lots of foam, and a long line could equal slow pours

-=Jason=-

 

[outside92129]

Hi Ya'll

The group buy is completed! All in all it wasn't too bad, thanks for making it easy. I'll be editing the original post with information in case someone wants to follow in my footsteps and conduct another one. But the way the vendors are thinking about carrying the line it doesn't appear to be worthwhile anymore.

-ls

 

[haeffnkr]

Hi,

I bought this line for me new kegerator....in the design/build stage.

What kind of barbs/fitting are recommended for this line on the kegs and shanks?
I dont want them to big based on how others need to heat a shove them on.

thanks Kevin

 

[Flomaster]

Hi,

I bought this line for me new kegerator....in the design/build stage.

What kind of barbs/fitting are recommended for this line on the kegs and shanks?
I dont want them to big based on how others need to heat a shove them on.

thanks Kevin

well good luck trying to find 3/16 OD barbs then..

1/4" is standard on the keg couplings and other fittings.

-=Jason=-

 

[outside92129]

there are some 3/16" fittings on ebay.

 

[Boleslaus]

Despite my early concerns, I have decided to stick with 20 feet. Bumped my pressure up to 12.5psi over the past 6 days. Perfect flow and head on every glass.

I've got one at 20 too and I've come to love the way it pours. Perfect flow out of the faucet and perfect head every time. I'm gonna cut my 22 ft. down to 20.

 

[SankePankey]

Yeah. After letting my kegs equalize, I think I need longer... I'm gonna buy some more cause I think I'll be more happy around 15. I should have started much longer and paired down from there.... oh well.

Maybe I'll just start at 20 like everyone else.

 

[SankePankey]

Would people be interested in this if we could offer 100ft for about $33.99 or $34.99, including shipping? If so, we would consider stocking it for you. Would be easier than organizing a group buy. The trade off is you pay a few extra dollars.

Let us know...

I was unable to order from you as per your site. Please advise. I need another 100ft cause I cut it all too short. Doh!!

 

[BirdmanBrewingCo]

I was unable to order from you as per your site. Please advise. I need another 100ft cause I cut it all too short. Doh!!

SankePankey,

We just opened it up for pre-orders again late last night. Please try again today and let us know if you have any problems. It should be good to go. We received orders late last night for this item after we opened it back up.

Thanks!

 

[CidahMastah]

just curious, has anybody been able to hook these up to picnic taps? I haven't tried any of the new line yet, but was looking at my two picnic taps and thinking... that is a REALLY wide barb

 

[Catt22]

just curious, has anybody been able to hook these up to picnic taps? I haven't tried any of the new line yet, but was looking at my two picnic taps and thinking... that is a REALLY wide barb

The barbs on the picnic taps are about 1/4". The tubing is 3/16" ID. SOP is to warm the tubing in some hot water to soften it up, then force it onto the barb. It's a tight fit and at first glance it looks like it would not work, but with a little brute force and the hot water it will go on and stay put without a clamp. I use the 1/4" barb x flare fittings on the opposite ends. Same procedure for those.

 

[Gritsak]

I'm pretty sure the barbed end on most picnic taps are tapered, so it may be more difficult to get completely on (i.e., so there are no exposed barbs).

 

[CidahMastah]

gritsack is correct - the barbs on my party taps are flared. Maybe it will go partway on, eh, guess I will have to try to find out.

 

[Catt22]

gritsack is correct - the barbs on my party taps are flared. Maybe it will go partway on, eh, guess I will have to try to find out.

I have no problem getting the tubing completely on the barb all the way up to the butt plate. Warming the tubing up with hot water is the key.

 

[CidahMastah]

I have no problem getting the tubing completely on the barb all the way up to the butt plate. Warming the tubing up with hot water is the key.

OK cool - that was my plan to start. However I just haven't used any of the new bevseal line yet. Looking forward to it!

Thanks for the tips

 

[XPLSV]

Kegworks stocks stainless 3/16" tailpieces. I ordered one set to ensure they were truly smaller than my 1/4" tailpieces and they were...so I ordered enough for my other lines.

Bernie

 

[emjay]

Do people NORMALLY use 1/4" barbs with 3/16" line? Why is that?

I still haven't built my keezer, so luckily I won't be buying a bunch of 1/4" barbs that will just need replacing.

I'm pretty sure the barbed end on most picnic taps are tapered, so it may be more difficult to get completely on (i.e., so there are no exposed barbs).

gritsack is correct - the barbs on my party taps are flared. Maybe it will go partway on, eh, guess I will have to try to find out.

What do you guys mean by flared/tapered? Isn't that basically what DEFINES a barb?

I actually have a similar problem with my William's oxygenation kit. The line seems to be 3/16, when most companies supply 1/4" line, and I can't push it past the first barb on the regulator. Heck, even getting it to that point initially, and repeatedly heating up the end of the vinyl tubing in hot water, was a *****. And it still falls off easily when tugged/pulled in any manner.

 

[day_trippr]

[...]What do you guys mean by flared/tapered? Isn't that basically what DEFINES a barb?[...]

Barbs exist in "level" and "flared" designs - "level" meaning the barbs are all the same diameter, "flared" meaning the barbs increase in diameter the further towards the base...

Cheers!

 

[emjay]

Barbs exist in "level" and "flared" designs - "level" meaning the barbs are all the same diameter, "flared" meaning the barbs increase in diameter the further towards the base...

Cheers!

Ah, okay.

I can't really recall right now ever seeing a tapered barb. Unless it's barely noticeable like with most NPT fittings, but I can't think of a good reason for such a slight taper on a barb.