Grainfather!!

CornyKegs 728
Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum

Help Support Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
I am getting a Grainfather soon and am getting an all grain kit as a gift. I am trying to work out starting points to try for this batch.

The IPA Kit:
11 lbs 2-row
1 lbs Caramel 40

plus 5 oz of hops... (think I know this part)

Mash Schedule:
152 for 60 min
170 mashout 10 min

O.G: 1064

So, playing around with online calcs; my best guess is:

Batch size 5.1 and efficiency of 75 gives me 1.065
Grainfater calcs say: 4.81 mash and 2.5 sparge.

Does this sound about right? Should I shoot for 75%? I have read most of this thread and watch a ton of Grainfather vids. This will be my first all grain. I have around 8 extract under my belt and they have been turning out great. So, hope the all grain will be even better. :mug:
 
75% ias a good first number to shoot for, but I have a couple of questions...
1. Are you milling your own grain? If you read through this thread you'll see grain crush has a major impact on efficiency. A poor crush from the kit will get you much less efficiency.
2. If you're shooting for a 5 gallon batch (finished,) you may want to consider using 5.5 gallons as the batch size, not 5.1 (easier to overshoot than be short.)
3. Finally, if you have the US version (110v) (with a Graincoat or Reflectix wrapper,) you may want to consider only 2 qts/hr boil off (less if you don't have either.)

Using my numbers with a 5.5 gal batch (I usually get 80%,) for a 60 minute boil, I get:
4.9 gals - Mash
2.8 gals - Sparge
which equals 7.70 gals, which I'd round up to 7.75 or 31 qts

Ed
:mug:
 
Chiller_ale said:
I am getting a Grainfather soon and am getting an all grain kit as a gift. I am trying to work out starting points to try for this batch.

The IPA Kit:
11 lbs 2-row
1 lbs Caramel 40

plus 5 oz of hops... (think I know this part)

Mash Schedule:
152 for 60 min
170 mashout 10 min

O.G: 1064

So, playing around with online calcs; my best guess is:

Batch size 5.1 and efficiency of 75 gives me 1.065
Grainfater calcs say: 4.81 mash and 2.5 sparge.

Does this sound about right? Should I shoot for 75%? I have read most of this thread and watch a ton of Grainfather vids. This will be my first all grain. I have around 8 extract under my belt and they have been turning out great. So, hope the all grain will be even better. :mug:
Click to expand...

Welcome to the GF Family! I'm sure you will find it a great decision.

Your OG calc w/75% brewhouse eff is what I calculate with what you've provided, so you're on the right track. Get a good crush (even double crush) from the LHBS, if from online, buy 5-10% more for this batch as you will likely lose some eff. For mash w/60 min boil, I'd get closer to 5gal mash, and between 2.75-2.9 sparge, depending on strength of boil. Though, with the 5oz of hops I'd even consider 3g sparge as you will fall short of your desired 5.1 in fermenter due to hop absorption. Also I would mash for 50 min with the 10 min mash out, so total of 60 min mash. Consider using loosely tied hop bags to reduce potential for pump clogging, and tilt your GF to get the most out of the boiler.

AG may not be better than extract, as your water chemistry can have a large impact on quality- the extract has already completed the mash under ideal water conditions. I highly recommend getting a water report and using a tool like Bru'n Water for water adjustments. IPA's can be more sensitive than dark beers, due to the pH (higher pH is not ideal here, dark beers will naturally be lower in pH). Additionally, you may want to review chloride sulfate ratios for your beer style, higher sulfate (2:1 or greater for ex.) for IPAs tends to be the norm, and keeping chloride <100ppm. It is all about your taste buds, but higher sulfate to chloride ratios are considered ideal for hoppy beers. Begin your AG journey with some good reading on this topic to help out yourself. Of course you can ignore and may be just fine too, so there's that! Best of luck and post back your results. :mug:
 
Thanks for the feed back.

I don't have a mill yet. The kit is coming from an online site. I will check to see if they can say what size the crush is set to. This is the 110v and I do have the graincoat. I am at 5400 ft so boil is ~202f. I do have hop bags and wondering if people whirlpool with the GF also?

I am not too worried about the amount I get into the fermenter, more want to stick closer to the 1.064.

With that info, do you think I still shoot for 75%?


I have not had much time to look into the water chemistry, so may have to just wing it for now. :( I just use campden tablets for chlorine.
 
Chiller_ale said:
Thanks for the feed back.

I don't have a mill yet. The kit is coming from an online site. I will check to see if they can say what size the crush is set to. This is the 110v and I do have the graincoat. I am at 5400 ft so boil is ~202f. I do have hop bags and wondering if people whirlpool with the GF also?

I am not too worried about the amount I get into the fermenter, more want to stick closer to the 1.064.

With that info, do you think I still shoot for 75%?


I have not had much time to look into the water chemistry, so may have to just wing it for now. :( I just use campden tablets for chlorine.
Click to expand...

I would expect your crush won't be as fine as those with their own mill, so I'd order +5-10% (or shoot for 70%). Maybe call them and ask for a finer crush, search this thread for mill settings, I haven't measured mine, but it works and is finer than stores provide.

Yes, we do whirlpool, very easy. One word of caution, look where the pump filter is and do not bump it when stirring, you may knock the whole thing off, or the cap, either way you want to avoid.

1/2 campden tablet will be fine for your amount of water. Best wishes, keep the GF instructions alongside and enjoy the brew day!
 
just got done with my 3rd batch today and had some questions:

-mash temp fluctuation: is it normal for the mash temp to fluctuate 2 degrees either way of the set mash temp and is there anything i can do about it? does it make that big of a difference?

-the wort chiller: did an ipa and did a hopstand for about 15-20 minutes after boil (5 oz hops total). by the time i got the wort chiller ready, the temp was about 200. i use my old copper immersion chiller as a pre-chiller. I got the temp down to about 135-145 in about 15 minutes. and then it just hovered there. the flow was pretty slow and it was obvious the filter was getting blocked. i kept scraping at the filter and eventually just gave up for about 20 minutes. i was eventually able to get it down to 78 degrees but took forever. does the chiller work better on low hop bills where the filter doesn't get clogged? seemed like it look a long time the previous batch as well.

-efficiency: i'm getting poor efficiency. I usually double grind about 50% of the grain bill to avoid stuck sparges and added a handful of rice hulls. my 12.5 lb bill only gave me 1.052 OG, which i'm calculating at around 55-60% efficiency. any ideas on what i could be doing wrong? should i double crush all my grains or am i just expecting too much for efficiency?
 
domdom said:
just got done with my 3rd batch today and had some questions:

-mash temp fluctuation: is it normal for the mash temp to fluctuate 2 degrees either way of the set mash temp and is there anything i can do about it? does it make that big of a difference?

-the wort chiller: did an ipa and did a hopstand for about 15-20 minutes after boil (5 oz hops total). by the time i got the wort chiller ready, the temp was about 200. i use my old copper immersion chiller as a pre-chiller. I got the temp down to about 135-145 in about 15 minutes. and then it just hovered there. the flow was pretty slow and it was obvious the filter was getting blocked. i kept scraping at the filter and eventually just gave up for about 20 minutes. i was eventually able to get it down to 78 degrees but took forever. does the chiller work better on low hop bills where the filter doesn't get clogged? seemed like it look a long time the previous batch as well.

-efficiency: i'm getting poor efficiency. I usually double grind about 50% of the grain bill to avoid stuck sparges and added a handful of rice hulls. my 12.5 lb bill only gave me 1.052 OG, which i'm calculating at around 55-60% efficiency. any ideas on what i could be doing wrong? should i double crush all my grains or am i just expecting too much for efficiency?
Click to expand...

1- I normally get 1Deg C changes, as the standard controller will only do it that way. nothing to worry about

2- ignore the temp on the controller when chilling, the counterflow chiller will chill the water running through that, but the body of liquid will not decrease in temp anywhere near as fast. all i do is; finish boil, add hop stand if required, re-circulate the wort to sanitise the chiller, then turn on the cold water for chilling, after 5-10 mins the wort coming out is at temp if not lower., then chuck it in your fermenter and let it fill.

3- too much water? I think you might be doing something wrong. I assume your using the pump to re-criculate during the mash? check your water calculations and check your final volumes, also check after you've sparged how much water drains from the basket once you have the correct boil volume, all very important.

FYI is this mash efficiency?
 
crusader1612 said:
2- ignore the temp on the controller when chilling, the counterflow chiller will chill the water running through that, but the body of liquid will not decrease in temp anywhere near as fast. all i do is; finish boil, add hop stand if required, re-circulate the wort to sanitise the chiller, then turn on the cold water for chilling, after 5-10 mins the wort coming out is at temp if not lower., then chuck it in your fermenter and let it fill.

3- too much water? I think you might be doing something wrong. I assume your using the pump to re-criculate during the mash? check your water calculations and check your final volumes, also check after you've sparged how much water drains from the basket once you have the correct boil volume, all very important.

FYI is this mash efficiency?
Click to expand...

2-i tested the work temp after i got the temp down to about 85-ish and noticed it was about 75. at what temperature do you stop recirculating and put into the fermenter?

3-i increased the mash water a little over 0.25 gallons this batch because the mash was super heavy the other brews to the point it was almost like thick oatmeal. efficiency was slightly better that was so i'll probably go back to the factory specs for mash water volume.

i know there is a difference between mash and brewhouse efficiency but don't know the details on the difference. it's the reading i got from the wort after dumping it into the fermenter.
 
domdom said:
just got done with my 3rd batch today and had some questions:

-mash temp fluctuation: is it normal for the mash temp to fluctuate 2 degrees either way of the set mash temp and is there anything i can do about it? does it make that big of a difference?

-the wort chiller: did an ipa and did a hopstand for about 15-20 minutes after boil (5 oz hops total). by the time i got the wort chiller ready, the temp was about 200. i use my old copper immersion chiller as a pre-chiller. I got the temp down to about 135-145 in about 15 minutes. and then it just hovered there. the flow was pretty slow and it was obvious the filter was getting blocked. i kept scraping at the filter and eventually just gave up for about 20 minutes. i was eventually able to get it down to 78 degrees but took forever. does the chiller work better on low hop bills where the filter doesn't get clogged? seemed like it look a long time the previous batch as well.

-efficiency: i'm getting poor efficiency. I usually double grind about 50% of the grain bill to avoid stuck sparges and added a handful of rice hulls. my 12.5 lb bill only gave me 1.052 OG, which i'm calculating at around 55-60% efficiency. any ideas on what i could be doing wrong? should i double crush all my grains or am i just expecting too much for efficiency?
Click to expand...

Controller is pre-set to 2'F range. You can change this, I haven't and doubt you will notice a diff in your beer. I do however hit grains with strike water +10F above mash temp. Take a grain bed temp reading after mashing in, you will be surprised at diff to controller temp readout.

With the CFC, you should sanitize per GF directions, then with cold water running in about 10s your temp will drop enough to go directly into fermenter. Do not recirc back into boiler. I pre-chill too, tap temps at 77 still. 15-20min to move 6g to fermenter at 78. Two hours later in ferm chamber and I was at 68 to pitch. You can adjust both wort & water flow rates to cool, I prefer to run wort almost wide open for expediency. In winter I really need to slow down water or I cool into 50's!

Idk on your eff, need more info, but I get 75% brew house eff, i.e. into fermenter with all losses considered. I don't double crush and am fine with this, and is consistent.
 
domdom said:
2-i tested the work temp after i got the temp down to about 85-ish and noticed it was about 75. at what temperature do you stop recirculating and put into the fermenter?



3-i increased the mash water a little over 0.25 gallons this batch because the mash was super heavy the other brews to the point it was almost like thick oatmeal. efficiency was slightly better that was so i'll probably go back to the factory specs for mash water volume.



i know there is a difference between mash and brewhouse efficiency but don't know the details on the difference. it's the reading i got from the wort after dumping it into the fermenter.
Click to expand...


Basically. I feel the wort out tube if it's cold it goes on the fermenter. Normally 5-10mins at most.

I found I got better efficiency and hit volumes slightly better by adding the recommended mash. Kline and dropping the spathe volume a touch. 300ml is about where I sit. I also round my numbers.
 
domdom said:
2-i tested the work temp after i got the temp down to about 85-ish and noticed it was about 75. at what temperature do you stop recirculating and put into the fermenter?

3-i increased the mash water a little over 0.25 gallons this batch because the mash was super heavy the other brews to the point it was almost like thick oatmeal. efficiency was slightly better that was so i'll probably go back to the factory specs for mash water volume.

i know there is a difference between mash and brewhouse efficiency but don't know the details on the difference. it's the reading i got from the wort after dumping it into the fermenter.
Click to expand...

After 10min sanitize I turn on cold water to cool. Literally within 10 sec or so the wort out hose is cool and goes into fermenter. Boiler temp will read ~200! Wort temp with tap temp of 77 and a pre-chill, is about the same, into ferm chamber to finish cooling. I transfer 6g in <20 min.

The main diff mash to brewhouse eff is lauter, though I suspect hop absorption plays a role too. Go to Brewers Friend, they have great definition, pictorial and calculator. Gravity reading alone is not enough to calculate-need grain bill and water volumes too
 
@benner_28 is your head spinning? I'm glad I started reading this thread since day one, otherwise that is a lot to catch up.
 
Funny thing is I didnt mean for this to start into a 214 page thread haha Im pretty pumped it did though as there is a TON of great info and help!!
 
elreplica said:
BrewMeister49 said:
Funny thing is I didnt mean for this to start into a 214 page thread haha Im pretty pumped it did though as there is a TON of great info and help!!
Just found this post on an Irish site...new Grainfather control boxes pre-order... 136.25 euros - puts them at $200 CDN. I'm wondering when NG will start as I'm interested. What do the rest of you folks think?

http://www.geterbrewed.ie/grainfather-connect-control-box/
Click to expand...

Hmmm, interesting. I will await for user feedback on the PID control of temps and grain bed response- per long previous discussion here. Ignoring whether this improves final beer quality (or consistency, maybe the more relevant point), the gadget factor is cool. Who wouldn't want this to have been the original controller?!
Click to expand...
 
Got mine couple days ago! took me like 6 months to decide and this thing looks sweet. how fine of a crush you guys running in this thing
 
shortyz said:
Got mine couple days ago! took me like 6 months to decide and this thing looks sweet. how fine of a crush you guys running in this thing
Click to expand...

I use a.038 setting on my barley crusher and get around 80 to 85 brewhouse efficiency on my normal grain bill sized batches
 
Kampenken said:
elreplica said:
Hmmm, interesting. I will await for user feedback on the PID control of temps and grain bed response- per long previous discussion here. Ignoring whether this improves final beer quality (or consistency, maybe the more relevant point), the gadget factor is cool. Who wouldn't want this to have been the original controller?!
Click to expand...


Yup. I'm with you on the original controller...but I'll likely step up to it...
Click to expand...
 
finished my first batch and shes bubbling away! my eff was 78%. I think thats pretty decent for a first go. This machine is awesome and easy to use, lots of fittings to make pretty much any water source usable with the chiller.

The only thing i had a problem with is the grainstopper tube thing, its the same size as the pipe with the nut on it... it also looks nothing like the manual.

photo1(25).jpg
 
shortyz said:
finished my first batch and shes bubbling away! my eff was 78%. I think thats pretty decent for a first go. This machine is awesome and easy to use, lots of fittings to make pretty much any water source usable with the chiller.

The only thing i had a problem with is the grainstopper tube thing, its the same size as the pipe with the nut on it... it also looks nothing like the manual.
Click to expand...

Did you get it figured out? The piece to the very left with the nut gets attached to the grain basket. The piece on the very right gets inserted onto the very left piece after it's attached to the basket, and then the middle piece sits inside of the very right piece(will be the third piece you put in). Then you can the move the very right piece up and down, and the middle piece is just a guide to tell you how far up and down you can go.
 
shortyz said:
finished my first batch and shes bubbling away! my eff was 78%. I think thats pretty decent for a first go. This machine is awesome and easy to use, lots of fittings to make pretty much any water source usable with the chiller.

The only thing i had a problem with is the grainstopper tube thing, its the same size as the pipe with the nut on it... it also looks nothing like the manual.
Click to expand...

Correct, grainstopper tube supposed to slide inside the tube on the right with the two spirings, that's the upper half of the overflow piping.
 
ill make a video tonight... this makes no sense, ive even watched some youtube vids and this isnt working.
 
shortyz said:
ill make a video tonight... this makes no sense, ive even watched some youtube vids and this isnt working.
Click to expand...

iu


In this photo, the top overflow pipe (the one with the clip springs) is installed on the bottom overflow pipe (the one with the nut) and is all the way down, so yes, the grain stopper would not fit.

If you slide the top overflow pipe up, let's say half way, the stopper will now fit, albeit not the entire stopper length. It will still stop the grain from going down the overflow. That upper overflow is supposed to be slid up beyond the level of the grain/water. Now, if you have a small grain bill (approx less than 9#) the standard overflow can't get down low enough ... which is why they have the micropipe option (separate purchase).
 
so lets say the mashtun has your strike water in it, your ready to put the grains in. the overflow pipe cannot just be "moved" up. It just falls back down.

the first pic is me not holding the tube up

the second pic is me physically holding the overflow pipe up.

photo1(26).jpg


photo2(4).jpg
 
I'l look more in a few after work but you should be using the other plate for the bottom of your grain basket. The plate you're using is for the top of the grain. Just an FYI.

Buttt, you can't slide the pipe on the right up and down at all? That's the one that falls down? Can you post a video of you doing it?
attachment.php
 
Same thing happened with mine when I got it. Those 2 little bent wires (I'm sure they have an actual name) at the bottom of the extension pipe were stuck too far towards the outside of the pipe. I just gave them a little squeeze with my fingers and that fixed it. Those little wires seem to put a little pressure on the other pipe so the extension pipe doesn't just slide around.
 
TheHopfather said:
Same thing happened with mine when I got it. Those 2 little bent wires (I'm sure they have an actual name) at the bottom of the extension pipe were stuck too far towards the outside of the pipe. I just gave them a little squeeze with my fingers and that fixed it. Those little wires seem to put a little pressure on the other pipe so the extension pipe doesn't just slide around.
Click to expand...
+1^^^ this. These actually put tension on the overflow pipe to keep the extension pipe from falling down. As Hopfather said, use your fingers or a pair of pliers to gently push in the bottom portion of the springs until the extension pipe stays where you put it. Ed
:mug:

2016-10-19 12_21_42-Grainfather!! - Page 216 - Home Brew Forums.jpg
 
shortyz said:
so lets say the mashtun has your strike water in it, your ready to put the grains in. the overflow pipe cannot just be "moved" up. It just falls back down.

the first pic is me not holding the tube up

the second pic is me physically holding the overflow pipe up.
Click to expand...


You e git the wrong stop pipe...the sections should be adjustable like an aerial...my stopper doesn't look like that one either. Didn't you get this GF from Everwood?
 
I've been holding off on brewing an IPA. My Manjack Grove hop spider just arrived in the mail yesterday, looks legit. Next up, NEIPA.
 
RedlegEd said:
+1^^^ this. These actually put tension on the overflow pipe to keep the extension pipe from falling down. As Hopfather said, use your fingers or a pair of pliers to gently push in the bottom portion of the springs until the extension pipe stays where you put it. Ed
:mug:
Click to expand...

YESSSSSSSS. i didnt even see that its knotched out for those little spring gizmos. thanks guys!
 

Similar threads

R
Grainfather G30 Sight Glass?
Replies
6
Views
947
phbern
P
G
Trying to narrow down options for a new AIO
Replies
7
Views
648
Bobby_M
Bobby_M
brewmasterorr
Weird issue... 50amp BCS 462
Replies
0
Views
454
brewmasterorr
brewmasterorr
pvpeacock
Grainfather G40/G70 Discussion Thread: Questions, Tips and Tricks
2
Replies
44
Views
6K
pvpeacock
pvpeacock
S
Trying to figure out why my beers haze during fermentation and don't clear during crash
Replies
16
Views
891
sleev-les
S
SSBrew 300

Latest posts

Back
Top