Grainfather!!

[BobOki]

So had an interesting event occur on my first brew with my Grainfather. I was stiring my wort during boil and accidentally touched the bottom heating element with my SS spoon. This in turned seemed to stop the elements from working at all. I watched in horror as my temps slowly fell from 212f to around 180f while I frantically tried to figure out what was wrong. Eventually I found there is a reset switch on the bottom of the device which corrected the issue and I VERY quickly shot back up to 212f (like in 10 minutes fast). Luckily I had not added any hops yet, so no huge issues occurred on my Chocolate milk stout, but still was something not in their documentation or troubleshooting.

Other than that, this was my first all-grain and I was AMAZED how easy this was. I cannot recommend this device more to any newbies just starting out, it 100% took any guesswork, worry, or hassle out of my first AG brew and I already know this was an amazing buy. If you are on the fence for this, pull the trigger. I live up north so I got the graincoat too, and it works well, it took like 30-45 minutes to get from 212f to 180f with my house around 60f (kitchen always is cold).

*edit* I only wish that their sparge kettle they sell had a way to slow the water coming out so I can attach a hose to it and have it sparge a little easier. As it stands even with their own device I ended up having to sit there and baby it the whole time putting water in, waiting, etcetc. There is just no way they could not have put a spiggot with a lever on it to chose my own flow rate instead of what it currently has.

 

[doogster]

I brewed today also a simple Cream Ale recipe that was 7.5lbs.

Tips I'm using:

1 - make sure your strike temp for mashing is 8 - 10 degrees higher. Use the same techniques you used for your cooler brewing.

2 - use the ball valve to help control the flow down the drain pipe. I know lots of folks on this thread might laugh at what I'm saying, but it works. I ran most of my mash cycle with the valve 1/2 closed or more. Wort down the overflow does very little to help maintain grain bed temperature. I'm running a temp probe in the grain bed to help monitor.

3 - I think your onto something with the crush. The GF needs a coarse crush to help the wort flow so your not going down the overflow completely. I'm running a Monster Mill at .045 thou. Its a three roller unit.

4 - I've been doing 90 minute mash cycle for the last 6 brews on the GF. I think this helps with extracting all the goodness in the grain.

Jamie

Thanks for the pointers. BTW, my grain bill was 11.25 lbs

Might be time to buy my own mill so I can control crush, I'm not sure my LHBS will want to fiddle with their mill for me.

For the next batch though, I'll make a point to be careful about #2 above. I might have started the re-circulation too fast at the beginning and set a "solid" grain bed.

Regarding number 1, I didn't notice too much of a temp drop when I doughed in. I took it pretty slowly, adding a breakfast bowl of grain at a time, stirring it up, next bowl full, repeat...

Scientific method says I should only change one thing at a time... so I think flow control should be the first thing to try.

Doug

 

[TexasWine]

Regarding number 1, I didn't notice too much of a temp drop when I doughed in. I took it pretty slowly, adding a breakfast bowl of grain at a time, stirring it up, next bowl full, repeat...

Where were you measuring the temp? Were you using the temp probe provided with the GF or were you using a separate probe to measure the grain bed? If using the GF temp probe I suspect the measured temp drop would be less than the actual.

 

[Kampenken]

Well, I found out what happens when you accidentally knock the end cap off the pump filter during the boil...

Welcome to the club! I stay far away now!

So had an interesting event occur on my first brew with my Grainfather. I was stiring my wort during boil and accidentally touched the bottom heating element with my SS spoon. This in turned seemed to stop the elements from working at all. I watched in horror as my temps slowly fell from 212f to around 180f while I frantically tried to figure out what was wrong. Eventually I found there is a reset switch on the bottom of the device which corrected the issue and I VERY quickly shot back up to 212f (like in 10 minutes fast). Luckily I had not added any hops yet, so no huge issues occurred on my Chocolate milk stout, but still was something not in their documentation or troubleshooting...
*edit* I only wish that their sparge kettle they sell had a way to slow the water coming out so I can attach a hose to it and have it sparge a little easier. As it stands even with their own device I ended up having to sit there and baby it the whole time putting water in, waiting, etcetc. There is just no way they could not have put a spiggot with a lever on it to chose my own flow rate instead of what it currently has.

Touching the bottom with your SS spoon caused it to fault? That's really odd. GF shows scraping when the boil begins. Also, its a shame the GF wasn't able to hack the STC to indicate the element went off- or add a light.

How about adding an in-line valve from the sparge kettle to the GF?

...Regarding number 1, I didn't notice too much of a temp drop when I doughed in. I took it pretty slowly, adding a breakfast bowl of grain at a time, stirring it up, next bowl full, repeat...

Scientific method says I should only change one thing at a time... so I think flow control should be the first thing to try.

Doug

If you use the STC temp readout it will not be the grain bed temp during dough in (one of Jamie's points on grain bed temp)- its not recirculating at all at that time, and will still be slow to respond. Measure with a good thermometer. I'm back to raising temp 10F when doughing in, which btw I perform a bit quicker than you apparently! Probably about 4 pours of grain with stops to stir in, no doughballs, just stir well. Not that it may make any noticeable difference to your beer, but I'm back to same heat up method as pre-GF in the cooler mash tun days.

 

[BobOki]

Touching the bottom with your SS spoon caused it to fault? That's really odd. GF shows scraping when the boil begins. Also, its a shame the GF wasn't able to hack the STC to indicate the element went off- or add a light.

How about adding an in-line valve from the sparge kettle to the GF?

Yeah, which is why I did not consider that it could possibly have been that. Turns out it was, so very weird. No biggie, I will just have to keep an eye on it from now on

Would very much like a so form on a valve!!!

 

[jdubdvdt]

I am looking for some benchmarking for the homemade grainjacket vs the grainfather branded sleeve. Looking I want to decrease my boil time as much as possible AND have a more consistent temperature.

 

[curly73]

New to brewing all grain. Done probably 5 batches of extract and took a year off and now I'm back. But, wow this Grainfather is tempting. Can't decide on it or the Cooler kit ?!?!?! Probably around 500.00 diference. Hmmmmmmmm?

 

[TBC]

Brewed my 10th batch on the grainfather today an imperial stout with a grain bill of 18.75lbs and a little over 7gallons for my mash water. Overall the day went pretty well but was my longest, about 6 hours from start to cleaned up. Brewed in my garage low 40s with the graincoat.

The biggest issue I had was mashing in the large grain bill. The boiler was pretty full with the mash water so I was adding the grain slowly and after about 10lbs of grain being mashed in I noticed even though I was adding the grain slowly small bits were going out the holes used to lift the basket. So I decided to lift the basket and add the rest of the grain and then resubmerge the basket. I don't recommend this method at all. I had to hold the basket about 3/4 out of the boiler as I waited for the water to reabsorb in the grain because as I lowered it the boiler wanted to overflow.

The other issues I had were the recirc arm hose was kinking since the perforated plate was near the top of the grainfather. I could have cut the hose but kept adjusting it until it worked. This was also the first time my pump was blocking up. I noticed it during the chill that it was real slow. I used my 300 micron hop screen and had no idea why it was slow until I cleaned it and noticed the screen was plugged with the grain that went down the 2 holes for the handle.

In the future if I'm brewing a big beer I will probably just use my 10 gallon propane rig. I'm hoping to brew a dunkel "Dunky Brewster" on Wednesday. I just have to decide between the kitchen or garage.

Hopefully my experiences with the large grain bill will help a couple of you guys out in the future.

 

[Kampenken]

I am looking for some benchmarking for the homemade grainjacket vs the grainfather branded sleeve. Looking I want to decrease my boil time as much as possible AND have a more consistent temperature.

From a Reflectix user- I brewed outside yesterday in a 41F garage and had no problems, boil was strong (oh, and I may have been on a 15a circuit- we never checked). Full disclosure- this was a low ABV brew, 8# of grain, total water at boil was 24L. Still I don't think it would've made much difference if I ran a larger bill and say 27-28L in boiler. I bought the larger roll (24" instead of 16") and made a two wrap around cover. I have enough left over for 2 more- one I will make for a brother when he joins us soon now, other I'm keeping for possible other applications (insulate HLT). Its about 1/2 price, I like the looks - go back a few pages to see mine. Maybe someone else has tried both?? If you really want to decrease boil time I'd suggest what some have done and get a heat stick- just make sure you have a separate circuit to run it on. As for consistent temperature control I don't think either would be materially different.

 

[RockyMountainCraftBrewing]

New to brewing all grain. Done probably 5 batches of extract and took a year off and now I'm back. But, wow this Grainfather is tempting. Can't decide on it or the Cooler kit ?!?!?! Probably around 500.00 diference. Hmmmmmmmm?

I got into craft brewing just over 2 years ago and I jumped into the deep end of the pool and went straight to all grain.I built my own mashtun/HLT out of rectangular coolers from Walmart and got a basic 8 gallon kettle.By my 3rd brew I had everything dialed in and was making damn good beer.I spent less than $500 to do this including a stir plate set up and an IC I made.If the Grainfather had been on the market then I would have jumped at it.

Best about the Grainfather is the simplicity of the system and it's small foot print for space.Clean up is super easy as well.Buy a Grainfather and you will have no regrets.I was considering a Braumeister but I did not like the price nor the power requirements.I was on the fence with the BIAC but the price was the killer for me especially as it is in US currency and the importer of that Chinese manufactured system is based in Vancouver BC(pretty brutal for a Canadian importer wanting to gouge Canadians in US currency)

RMCB

 

[jdubdvdt]

From a Reflectix user- I brewed outside yesterday in a 41F garage and had no problems, boil was strong (oh, and I may have been on a 15a circuit- we never checked). Full disclosure- this was a low ABV brew, 8# of grain, total water at boil was 24L. Still I don't think it would've made much difference if I ran a larger bill and say 27-28L in boiler. I bought the larger roll (24" instead of 16") and made a two wrap around cover. I have enough left over for 2 more- one I will make for a brother when he joins us soon now, other I'm keeping for possible other applications (insulate HLT). Its about 1/2 price, I like the looks - go back a few pages to see mine. Maybe someone else has tried both?? If you really want to decrease boil time I'd suggest what some have done and get a heat stick- just make sure you have a separate circuit to run it on. As for consistent temperature control I don't think either would be materially different.

Honestly, creating any more efficiency would be ideal at this point. I was really disappointed with how long it took to get to boil for my 120 minute IPA, that's a lot of extra time in a brew day just for the boil.

Did you follow this for a layup and then just do a continuation for the second wrap?

https://www.reddit.com/r/grainfather/comments/3fkziw/looking_for_an_insulation_jacket_for_your/?

 

[jdubdvdt]

New to brewing all grain. Done probably 5 batches of extract and took a year off and now I'm back. But, wow this Grainfather is tempting. Can't decide on it or the Cooler kit ?!?!?! Probably around 500.00 diference. Hmmmmmmmm?

The small footprint is what makes the grainfather so nice. Everything packs back up into the single kettle and disappears in my closet until the next brew day.

 

[doogster]

Honestly, creating any more efficiency would be ideal at this point. I was really disappointed with how long it took to get to boil for my 120 minute IPA, that's a lot of extra time in a brew day just for the boil.

Did you follow this for a layup and then just do a continuation for the second wrap?

https://www.reddit.com/r/grainfather/comments/3fkziw/looking_for_an_insulation_jacket_for_your/?

See page 140 of this thread for Kampenken's pictures of his wrap.

 

[curly73]

I got into craft brewing just over 2 years ago and I jumped into the deep end of the pool and went straight to all grain.I built my own mashtun/HLT out of rectangular coolers from Walmart and got a basic 8 gallon kettle.By my 3rd brew I had everything dialed in and was making damn good beer.I spent less than $500 to do this including a stir plate set up and an IC I made.If the Grainfather had been on the market then I would have jumped at it.

Best about the Grainfather is the simplicity of the system and it's small foot print for space.Clean up is super easy as well.Buy a Grainfather and you will have no regrets.I was considering a Braumeister but I did not like the price nor the power requirements.I was on the fence with the BIAC but the price was the killer for me especially as it is in US currency and the importer of that Chinese manufactured system is based in Vancouver BC(pretty brutal for a Canadian importer wanting to gouge Canadians in US currency)

RMCB

Thank you for your imput! I appreciate you taking the time to comment. Ya, the system looks like something for me.. Maybe I will jump at it!! Thanks

 

[curly73]

The small footprint is what makes the grainfather so nice. Everything packs back up into the single kettle and disappears in my closet until the next brew day.

Space is a plus. Being able to pack away looks nice. I like the brewing indoor feature since I'm in ohio. I'm close to pulling the trigger on this thing. Thanks for you help

 

[gspot]

Space is a plus. Being able to pack away looks nice. I like the brewing indoor feature since I'm in ohio. I'm close to pulling the trigger on this thing. Thanks for you help

I bought it strictly to brew indoors Dec-Feb. Nope, it's my default setup now. It's just too easy and convenient compared to hauling out the pots and burners. You won't be sorry, I think.

 

[TexasWine]

The small footprint is what makes the grainfather so nice. Everything packs back up into the single kettle and disappears in my closet until the next brew day.

Not to be a bit picker, but this is an advantage of every recirculating eBIAB system of this size. Brew Boss, Colorado, High Gravity, Brau Supply... they can all pack back up into the single kettle for storage. The nature of this design is a small footprint so it's nothing unique to GF.

Actually, many GF advantages I read about in this thread are really just advantages of the generic eBIAB design. Ease/relaxed brew day, set it and forget it, speed, efficiency, ease of cleaning. I have all these same advantages in my generic eBIAB system (but at a fraction of the cost)

Not trying to pick on the GF, and not bashing you fine folks that have chosen to purchase it. But I just had to say something because sometimes these advantages are portrayed as being the exclusive territory of the GF when they're not.

Edit: when I say generic, I mean one comprised of off the shelf parts. I actually own a Brau Supply system.

 

[Kampenken]

Honestly, creating any more efficiency would be ideal at this point. I was really disappointed with how long it took to get to boil for my 120 minute IPA, that's a lot of extra time in a brew day just for the boil.

Did you follow this for a layup and then just do a continuation for the second wrap?

https://www.reddit.com/r/grainfather/comments/3fkziw/looking_for_an_insulation_jacket_for_your/?

I saw that but did not follow it as I wanted to make mine tighter and without top notches. When I measured around the STC I found this template was wider than I felt necessary. The addition of the pipe insulation makes this better too- it adds R value with the air space as well as closing it off at the top and the bottom, an added bonus. The reflectix is rated to 180F and as the single wall GF will exceed that temp I was concerned, though many here run it right without issues. All in, I'm quite pleased, the outside of my cover isn't warm, so its doing its job.

To get the results you're looking to obtain you should ask or search this thread about heat sticks. Likely no need for heat stick to get up to boil if you set to boil when you being to sparge, as by the end you're generally near 200 and then its just 5-10 min to boil.

The one issue that had me hesitate on the GF initially was time to boil. I loved moving from electric stove to my propane for the time saved, but haven't felt the loss of time with the GF as bad. I use the time to prepare everything, start with water adjustments, mash adj first in to boiler while still cold, sparge adjustments into the HLT. Then on to grain measuring and milling, and finally hops and others (e.g. irish moss) are measured, set out in small cups and labeled. All with some good music and coffee and it adds up to an enjoyable time getting up to mash temps. Makes for a relaxing lead into my day. Now a 2 hr boil , that's different!....

 

[treacheroustexan]

I checked out other electric systems before buying the GF, and I feel like the GF was the best choice for me and I still stand by that.

 

[elreplica]

Yeah, which is why I did not consider that it could possibly have been that. Turns out it was, so very weird. No biggie, I will just have to keep an eye on it from now on



Would very much like a so form on a valve!!!

I picked up a Grainfather Sparge Vessel/HLT as well. I haven't used it yet but rigged up a silicone hose with a quick release butterfly clamp for the valve end. Why couldn't you simply put a valve on the hose end to control the flow rate coming out of the hose to have water trickle flow at a rate to ensure one cm (1/2") sparge water seeping through grain bed?

 

[elreplica]

From a Reflectix user- I brewed outside yesterday in a 41F garage and had no problems, boil was strong (oh, and I may have been on a 15a circuit- we never checked). Full disclosure- this was a low ABV brew, 8# of grain, total water at boil was 24L. Still I don't think it would've made much difference if I ran a larger bill and say 27-28L in boiler. I bought the larger roll (24" instead of 16") and made a two wrap around cover. I have enough left over for 2 more- one I will make for a brother when he joins us soon now, other I'm keeping for possible other applications (insulate HLT). Its about 1/2 price, I like the looks - go back a few pages to see mine. Maybe someone else has tried both?? If you really want to decrease boil time I'd suggest what some have done and get a heat stick- just make sure you have a separate circuit to run it on. As for consistent temperature control I don't think either would be materially different.

I have used both inside in my kitchen and didn't see much if a difference in boil times. I was hoping to fit my Grainjacket over the Reflectix coat but it was much too tight. While the homemade jacket worked well, I liked the tailor made appearance of the Graincoat. The price wasn't a big deal and to me it was the difference between going out to a formal in jeans or a tuxedo...both cover you and get the job done but the tux looks a whole lot classier! And I'm a "jeans" guy.

 

[joyride75]

Welcome to the club! I stay far away now!

At least I know how much work that filter is doing now, huh? Before this I didn't even realize anything could get clogged like that. An hour of digging out hop particles later and now I know.

 

[doogster]

I have used both inside in my kitchen and didn't see much if a difference in boil times. I was hoping to fit my Grainjacket over the Reflectix coat but it was much too tight. While the homemade jacket worked well, I liked the tailor made appearance of the Graincoat. The price wasn't a big deal and to me it was the difference between going out to a formal in jeans or a tuxedo...both cover you and get the job done but the tux looks a whole lot classier! And I'm a "jeans" guy.

How much difference did you see between the "naked" grainfather, and a wrapped one?

 

[elreplica]

How much difference did you see between the "naked" grainfather, and a wrapped one?

I actually never bothered using it undressed as I knew the Reflectix and neopreme jacket would work better. My hot water heater, diving experience and mothers tea cosies all taught me that lol. Koozies, keg wraps etc. were all part of my experience too All said and done the GF would surely perform as expected in a warm kitchen. I over prepared with insulation and heatstick etc. but now just use the Graincoat.

 

[doogster]

I actually never bothered using it undressed as I knew the Reflectix and neopreme jacket would work better. My hot water heater, diving experience and mothers tea cosies all taught me that lol. Koozies, keg wraps etc. were all part of my experience too All said and done the GF would surely perform as expected in a warm kitchen. I over prepared with insulation and heatstick etc. but now just use the Graincoat.

Yeah, I get it... especially on the wetsuit and koozie references I just did my first brew session with it, and was not at all disappointed in the performance of the unwrapped grainfather. Brewed in a 68 degree laundry room, so it shouldn't really need to strain too hard, but after all the bluster about weak boil etc, I was pleasantly surprised. Just wondering if it is worth it to drop the coin on a coat.

 

[icebob]

Grainfather in the house! was a breeze to put together... quick question tho, isn't there supposed to be a cap for the end of the out tube of the pump for when not used?

 

[KIAKillerXJ]

$25 from Amazon!

Willhi Wh1436 Ac 110v - 240v Digital Temperature Controller Thermostat Control Switch Unit 1 Relay Output with Sensor

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00V4TJR00/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

I've got one for my lagering freezer too. Works great. I wasn't able to build my STC-1000 that cheaply. It's not a dual stage, however. Single stage with heating and cooling modes.

THANKS! What wattage bucket heater are you using? A little confused on their MAXIMUM LOAD: 880W at 110V or 1960W at 240V

 

[gspot]

Grainfather in the house! was a breeze to put together... quick question tho, isn't there supposed to be a cap for the end of the out tube of the pump for when not used?

Nope. That's why they put that little ball and spring in there.

 

[gspot]

THANKS! What wattage bucket heater are you using? A little confused on their MAXIMUM LOAD: 880W at 110V or 1960W at 240V

This one: http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000BDB4UG/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

I was wondering about those specs, too. But I have a 8.7cf freezer plugged into the other one, and neither devices have given me any problems (yet), so...

There are a LOT of typos in the manual (obviously written by a non-native English speaker), so I'm wondering if that information is correct. The inkbird for $39 is 1000w. Maybe I should have bought that instead. Guess if this one craps out on me, I will have to

 

[MT2sum]

$25 from Amazon!

Willhi Wh1436 Ac 110v - 240v Digital Temperature Controller Thermostat Control Switch Unit 1 Relay Output with Sensor

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00V4TJR00/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

I've got one for my lagering freezer too. Works great. I wasn't able to build my STC-1000 that cheaply. It's not a dual stage, however. Single stage with heating and cooling modes.

I'm planning to use an STC1000 for my lagering fridge (when I get my brew system done) and I'm curious how the Willhi, @ $25 is cheaper than the STC @ $10 and change? Not disputing, just want to know what I'm missing!

 

[elreplica]

Grainfather in the house! was a breeze to put together... quick question tho, isn't there supposed to be a cap for the end of the out tube of the pump for when not used?

Only on first gen Grainfathers...don't think they made it to North America.

 

[gspot]

I'm planning to use an STC1000 for my lagering fridge (when I get my brew system done) and I'm curious how the Willhi, @ $25 is cheaper than the STC @ $10 and change? Not disputing, just want to know what I'm missing!

I've got an STC too. The Wilhi is only a single stage. If you have a cooling device plugged into it, you would select the cooling mode. If you plug a heating device into it, you select heating mode. It's ideal for my HLT where I'm only heating, or my lager freezer where I'm only cooling (ambient temp never falls below freezing).

The STC is a dual stage. You can have both a cooling device AND a heading device plugged in at the same time. I use one on my fermentation fridge where I'm trying to maintain an exact 50 degrees. When the temp falls below, it switches on the heat. When the temp gets too high, it switches on the cooling.

Also, the wilhi comes ready-to-use. The STC had to be wired and installed into a project box. By the time you buy the rest of the parts, the costs are similar. So basically it comes down to what you are controlling and whether you feel like wiring one up or not (I didn't).

 

[elreplica]

GF sparge heater ordered and arriving next week. More shininess!

Well, just prepped the GF sparge heater and MJ hop basket with its first cleaning routine. I'm funny as I like to work in metric, US and Imperial...metric for weight and volume and Fahrenheit for temps soooo...here's an approximate time/ heat calibration for the sparge vessel. I set the dial (Celsius only) to the tick mark between 80-85C. My start temp (well H2O) was 47.2F. After 23 min. 103.5F. At 40 min. =141.1F. At 58 min. =179.5F. I overshot my sparge temp of 168F obviously and next run I'll dial it back closer to where it should've been, ie - 75C. This trial hopefully will save anyone using the GF Sparge heater a little time on dial in, as it will for me next brew session.
PS- my stove and old brew kettle did the trick in half the time but I wanted the liberty of brewing outside without having to run sparge water through the door. And I like shiny collections of things, kind of a crow thing I guess.
PPS - I also attached a meter (3.3 ft) of silicone tubing to the nozzle of the sparge vessel. Next I'll put a mini ball valve on the end to control the sparge flow level to around 1/2" (~1cm) during the strain.

 

[elgee]

I'm getting excited for the release of the new PID controller for the GF! I emailed tech support, they won't commit to a date it will be made available though.

 

[Kampenken]

I'll be curious about it, though without measuring the grain bed temp I'll temper my expectations. PID "could" be valuable during the mash, rest is get to and maintain boil. Maybe I'm missing what GF is suggesting their PID will control? Controlling their sparge heater would certainly add more value.

I think the greatest value in the entire brewing process for a PID is in the fermentation chamber. Some day I may go the way of the Brew Pi build here, talk about cool gadgetry!, or go with a 2nd probe on my STC 1000+ build. Decisions. And more critical brewing temp season is upon us now up North here!

 

[elgee]

I use the Ss Brewtech Cronical with the ftss and it works great to maintain temps within a degree.

 

[jrcrilly]

I think the greatest value in the entire brewing process for a PID is in the fermentation chamber. Some day I may go the way of the Brew Pi build here, talk about cool gadgetry!, or go with a 2nd probe on my STC 1000+ build. !

What a PID primarily buys you is the fastest possible temperature transitions without overshoot. Maintaining a constant temperature is easy emough that a PID might narrow the band a little bit but not much. The ferm chamber should be fine without one. The STC is an example of a controller that will maintain temps well without a PID. The STC controls temperatures by doing about the same thing as the unit in the Grainfather now (plus dual mode and the programs of the + unit).

 

[Kampenken]

What a PID primarily buys you is the fastest possible temperature transitions without overshoot. Maintaining a constant temperature is easy emough that a PID might narrow the band a little bit but not much. The ferm chamber should be fine without one. The STC is an example of a controller that will maintain temps well without a PID. The STC controls temperatures by doing about the same thing as the unit in the Grainfather now (plus dual mode and the programs of the + unit).

I understand the PID, but the use of it on the GF without maintaining the grain bed temp is useless to me. (Why I'm curious plans of GF for use).
The use in the FC is considerable to avoid overshoot and tighten temp fluctuations. I set STC to allow a 1.2F variability to avoid heat/cold cycling. Theoretically the beer temp can vary 2.4+F while fermenting. A PID will learn your chamber's performance and narrow that range to a few tenths of a degree. Required? Maybe not, but controls what I view as a critical time in the life of my emerging vat of joy!

 

[Kampenken]

I use the Ss Brewtech Cronical with the ftss and it works great to maintain temps within a degree.

At the time I bought my Chronical they didn't have that yet So I built the FC to handle it. Fun project and works well (sans tighter control) but I may have wished I went that route. And you get to see your SS beauty! While mine is locked away....

 

[elgee]

The Ss is pretty awesome, it's not cheap with the ftss add on, but still cheaper than most conical fermenters out there.