Got a welder, now the fun begins...

[Ohio-Ed]

Just got home with the material to build my welding table.

Do you have any idea how heavy a 204 pound steel plate is ?

 

[Yuri_Rage]

Just a tad over 203 lbs?

Hate to say it, but...told you so!

 

[Ohio-Ed]

Just a tad over 203 lbs?

Hate to say it, but...told you so!

Yuri, I don't mean to argue, but you're wrong.
That's how much it weighs... it's actually heavy as CRAP!!
Laying flat in the bottom of my truck bed full of ice/snow I couldn't get my fingers under it. Me sliding around, I had to pry it get moved away from the cab end of the bed just to get it started

Your earlier post, is the way I knew what I was getting into, Thanks!

 

[Yuri_Rage]

When I brought home the 4x8 sheet of 3/8" plate for my workbench, I just threw the truck in reverse and slammed the brakes with the tailgate open. I used an engine hoist to help put blocks under the corners in preparation for cutting.

 

[trigger]

trigger,
my bad I was thinking a X-former vs a inverter machine, big weight difference.
Here's something to read up on about the machine, the owners manual;

http://www.millerwelds.com/om/o246522c_mil.pdf

Prost.

Thanks for the info! I'm sure I'll be all over this thread in a few weeks with lots of questions.

I'll definitely have him check around. He's been looking/wanting a TIG for a long time, just wouldn't get it for himself.

 

[GreenMonti]

Just got home with the material to build my welding table.

Do you have any idea how heavy a 204 pound steel plate is ?

SWEET!! Now the fun begins.


Many hours to spend at the table, you have. Young Padawan.

I got you a couple pieces for your torch. A new insulator, a # 12 cup, and a 1/16" and a 1/32" gas lens W/collets. I was unable to get some filler but, you should have no problem using SS filler for now. I'll get it in the mail to you as soon as I can.

Oh yea, A "204 pound steel plate" weighs a pound, right?

 

[BrewBeemer]

Sounds like a tool you both will learn on and enjoy, a great investment.
On the bottle i'm a strong believer in the getting the largest owner
owned bottle you can handle like a 250 cu/ft.
It will be way cheaper to refill plus less often as well
no monthly lease fees. Should it sit 5 months no lease fees.
Do your homework as prices are all over the board with bottles
plus refills, shop around.
www.cyberwelds.com as example has bottles plus welders at rock bottom prices. The no sales tax is another plus.

Ed, I would rather of do battle with that steel plate than the "ex wife, she weighted 150% than it.
Now I can't even pick up a pair of shoes not alone touch the ground.

 

[BrewBeemer]

SWEET!! Now the fun begin

I got you a couple pieces for your torch. A new insulator, a # 12 cup, and a 1/16" and a 1/32" gas lens W/collets. I was unable to get some filler but, you should have no problem using SS filler for now. I'll get it in the mail to you as soon as I can.

Now that's a super cool offer, hats off to GreenMonti.

All I get are "had friends" that bang into my torch breaking a cup
or using my 1/16" tungsten as a scratch awl breaking it.
Again, cool beans Monti.

 

[Ohio-Ed]

SWEET!! Now the fun begins.


Many hours to spend at the table, you have. Young Padawan.

I got you a couple pieces for your torch. A new insulator, a # 12 cup, and a 1/16" and a 1/32" gas lens W/collets. I was unable to get some filler but, you should have no problem using SS filler for now. I'll get it in the mail to you as soon as I can.

Oh yea, A "204 pound steel plate" weighs a pound, right?

GreenMonti,

Thank you! That is incredibly generous.
I'm trying to spend at least a few minutes welding each day. I saw a video demonstrating the difference in using a gas lens, and the advantage looks very obvious.

I'm in the shed working on the table now.

Thanks,
Ed

 

[BrewBeemer]

GreenMonti,

Thank you! That is incredibly generous. Thanks, Ed

He always liked you better than me.

 

[Yuri_Rage]

Tungsten electrodes make great scratch awls in a pinch. You just have to remember to either set them aside or regrind them immediately after use.

 

[rosier9]

may I suggest friends for the next 204lb adventure...? really though, a couple homebrews later and all is well...

 

[Ohio-Ed]

may I suggest friends for the next 204lb adventure...? really though, a couple homebrews later and all is well...

Thanks rosier... Ya know, 204 pounds is really not that heavy. I guess what surprised me was how it was kind of "stuck" to the truck bed and I really had no way to get a hold on it. I managed to get a couple tie down hooks under it and then I could pull it fairly easy.

But now it's in the shop... on a bench just waiting on the frame.

BTW... My friends would have probably just laughed at me sliding around in the back of the truck.

 

[BrewBeemer]

BTW... My friends would have probably just laughed at me sliding around in the back of the truck.

Would you be face down or face up after you fall? I laugh at both.

 

[BrewBeemer]

BTW... My friends would have probably just laughed at me sliding around in the back of the truck.

Remember use a grinder of better yet a flap wheel and clean to bright steel at the weld locations. Tig will make a mess with crater holes vs using stick that is a pig it welds thru rust and crap if you must. Inclusions, what the hell are they?

 

[Ohio-Ed]

Would that be you face down or face up?
Remember use a grinder of better yet a flap wheel and clean to bright steel at the weld locations. Tig will pop vs stick a pig welds thru rust if you must.

Yea, I'll clean up the weld locations.

Have you ever used or heard of a Freud Diablo Steel Demon blade?
Its a carbide tipped circular saw blade. I saw a video on the miller welds site of a guy using one to cut a steel plate. I bought one (not cheap) and just tried it on the square tubing. I expected it to kick and spit teeth all over the shop but WOW was I surprised. It cut the tubing like I was cutting a wood 2x2. And it is clean as a whistle. They claim it lasts as long as 40 abrasive disks. I'll be interested to see how it holds up.

Ed

 

[BrewBeemer]

I've heard of them but watch out with the rpm's of your saw vs the blade rpm rating. We used them in the trade with steel conduit, a wax stick incresed blade life. Metal circular saw blades in the 7 1/4" diameter run from 4-7K rpm range, higher the speed more heat and wear. The 14" from 15 to 1,800 rpms. Surface tip cutting speed is the set rpm factor not rpm's.
Most metal saws like Milwaukee, Makita turn at 15 to 1,800 rpm's in the 14" class. Even when Milwaukee, they went Chinese but I still like their 14" steel circular saw as it has a wide stance vs others on the pivot hence less slop and error as it gets loose with wear over time. Dang things are not cheap.
http://www.google.com/products/cata...ult&ct=result&resnum=2&sqi=2&ved=0CDIQ8wIwAQ#
http://www.milwaukeetool.com/access...-saw-blades/metal-cutting-circular-saw-blades

I wish for a Dake Cold Saw but then $2,300 is hard to swallow after the wifey chokes me to 1/4" of death.

 

[pickles]

Ed,

i've used those blades alot and they work great, but don't stay sharp very long. They are also pretty hard on your saw. It'll run you $0.50 - $1.00 per tooth to have it sharpened. Make sure the sharpener is comfortable sharpening super hard carbide. If they sharpen it like standard carbide saw blades they'll lessen the life of the blade. I've had a Forrest Woodworker blade ruined that way! BTW, they are meant to used on a saw running at 1800 RPM, typically circular saw runs at 5200 RPM.

 

[Ohio-Ed]

Ed,

i've used those blades alot and they work great, but don't stay sharp very long. They are also pretty hard on your saw. It'll run you $0.50 - $1.00 per tooth to have it sharpened. Make sure the sharpener is comfortable sharpening super hard carbide. If they sharpen it like standard carbide saw blades they'll lessen the life of the blade. I've had a Forrest Woodworker blade ruined that way! BTW, they are meant to used on a saw running at 1800 RPM, typically circular saw runs at 5200 RPM.

Pickles,

The blade I have is marked 5800 RPM Max? I will certainly feed very slowly and will use a straight edge for most cuts to avoid binding.

Yea, I thought it would be hard on a saw. I have a Dewalt with a sticky blade guard that I have been planning to replace, this is the perfect excuse

I'd be pretty happy if this blade holds up through this project and maybe a couple more small ones. I'm hoping it will be no more expensive than the cost of abrasive blades in the long run.

Ed

 

[BrewBeemer]

I hate abrasive saw cutting blade use.
I have a Mikita 14" abrasive saw, cost me $38 for a replacement gear case housing as it was dropped and broken.
Blades free from my muffler shop friends business still I hate the damn thing.
I have GreenLee horizontal bandsaw given to me he retired and moved into a motorhome plus a 53" blade Miller Falls hand bandsaw, all 46# of it a tank.
The Dake Cold Saw if someone can come out with a DIY version like the Miller
Welds projects that would be great. Can't justify $2,300 plus it's way over budget. To square off stock on the Bridgeport is way over the top in time and labor.

My Delta 10" compound miter saw with a aluminum non ferrous blade makes milled rainbow cuts, secret is using a wax lube stick every cut.
I bet this would help with cutting steel plus make the blade last longer.
Those slivers are nasty be careful especially when they dig into your clothes
and end up in the washing machine. Others in the house will have rusty slivers in there clothes, NOT GOOD trust me been there. End of novel sorry.
Off to PT torture.

 

[BrewBeemer]

Ed,

i've used those blades alot and they work great, but don't stay sharp very long. They are also pretty hard on your saw. It'll run you $0.50 - $1.00 per tooth to have it sharpened. Make sure the sharpener is comfortable sharpening super hard carbide. If they sharpen it like standard carbide saw blades they'll lessen the life of the blade.

A new fine tooth carbide blade installed backwards works great in a Skilsaw cutting 14 gauge 7075 aluminum, a beater garage sale Porter Cable router with a 1/2" carbide set 1/16" below base trimmed down the 14 gauge to near the aluminum frame then finished with the belt sander flush.
Yeah I agree, had a 3 pack combo carbide blade set I could resharpen the carbide with a file, WTF? Got what I paid for.
Old school at my end dad has a blade sharpening jig with tooth kerf resetting for steel blades. Aluminium cutting on the 10" table saw a fine tooth Diablo carbide works, thin small stock will get shot out, the rake is totally wrong can be dangerous.
I cut 3 1/2" bronze stock years ago doing this to make 24# cannon barrels on the lathe sure beat a hacksaw.

 

[Ohio-Ed]

For those that are heading toward building your own stand, here are a couple pictures of the results using the Diablo Steel Demon blade.

I clamped 4 pieces together. I then clamped a straight edge across the top to guide the circular saw and ensure each of the 4 pieces are identical:

I am amazed how clean this blade cut:

 

[Ohio-Ed]

So from the previous post you can probably see I made some progress on the welding table. I got the material for the frame cut and tacked together. Here are a couple pictures:

 

[BrewBeemer]

You had better of got the wifey something good for Christmas for pulling off this tig purchase.

Your having entirely too much fun with Tig Ed, next thing the wifey will tell ya to make love to Mr. Miller.
That didn't sound right, more gay than I expected.
Looking good there bro, screw them chop saws.
Have you tried using some wax stick lube, I know being overly conservative on the blade at my end.
That a 7 1/2" blade and how much it cost plus where did you got it?
I have a "beater 77 Skilsaw" with a diamond wheel for cement cuts, the 77 Mag my sunday saw.
I bet this is all bad on the spindle bearings plus the worm drive with shock loading.

 

[Ohio-Ed]

Your having entirely too much fun with Tig Ed, next thing the wifey will tell ya to make love to Mr. Miller.
That didn't sdound right, more gay than I expected.
Looking good there bro, screw them chop saws.
Have you tried using some wax stick lube, I know being overly conservative on the blade at my end.
That a 7 1/2" blade and how much it cost plus where you got it?
I have a "beater 77 Skilsaw" for the diamond wheel for cement cuts, the 77 Mag is the my sunday saw.
I bet this is all bad on the spindle bearings plus the worm drive shock loading.

SWMBO was a bit pissed today... I think I spent too much time in the shed

I still need to cut and tack come plates on to mount the casters. I got some 5", 330# locking casters at Tractor Supply.

I'm debating how to mount the table top? Weld it? Weld brackets to it and bolt it?

I haven't used wax stick, where can I get it?

It is a 7 1/4" blade. I got it from HomeDepot for $40.
Here's a link:
http://www.homedepot.com/Tools-Hard...ation?langId=-1&storeId=10051&catalogId=10053

I agree it is probably hard on the saw. The saw I used has paid for it's self 100 times and is due to be replaced, so I was/am willing to take a gamble.

 

[GreenMonti]

Damn, Ed.

That's great. Keep up the good work. It looks like your gonna have a better work table then I do. You also seem to be a natural a this.

Prost.

 

[GreenMonti]

I would weld the top on. It will distort the top surface though.

 

[BrewBeemer]

I would cut pieces of 1 1/2" angle cut 1 1/2" long and weld them to the bottom of the top, add nutserts to the frame then bolt the top to the inside
of the top frame loop. You'll be able to remove the top later if need be.
Weld in short stiches the angle to the top preventing warping it, I find it hard welding standard angle to 1/2" will warp it. JMO's.

 

[Ohio-Ed]

Damn, Ed.

That's great. Keep up the good work. It looks like your gonna have a better work table then I do. You also seem to be a natural a this.

Prost.

I would weld the top on. It will distort the top surface though.

Thanks GM.

I know I have a long way to go but I'm really enjoying the experience.

I'm thinking I may combine BrewBeemer's idea and your's in attaching the top. I'm thinking of cutting some 1.5" angle 1.5" long and welding it to the frame and the top (2 on each long side, 1 on the short side).
I'm thinking that should make it pretty easy to cut the angle if needed to remove the top and hopefully it won't deform the top too much.

Anything I can or should do to condition/protect the top? Should I even sand it?

Ed

 

[BrewBeemer]

My top I flap wheeled it with the Milwaukee hand grinder allowing a lot of bright steel exposed for a clean ground of any item welded.
I wipe down this top with Mig torch anti splatter cream, same stuff
some dip their Mig torch into (sloppy mess not me).
I've seen WD 40 with a rag used then wiped.

 

[GreenMonti]

Thanks GM.

I know I have a long way to go but I'm really enjoying the experience.

I'm thinking I may combine BrewBeemer's idea and your's in attaching the top. I'm thinking of cutting some 1.5" angle 1.5" long and welding it to the frame and the top (2 on each long side, 1 on the short side).
I'm thinking that should make it pretty easy to cut the angle if needed to remove the top and hopefully it won't deform the top too much.

Anything I can or should do to condition/protect the top? Should I even sand it?

Ed

I'm probably late on this one. As BB mentioned, I like to use a grinder to clean up the tables surface. I like to use the "hat" type grinder discs. I place it flat on the table and let it do its thing. The hat style are con caved or con vexed depending on how you look at them. Just keep it flat to help keep the table flat. You don't want to dig any holes in your nice new table. Even if you weld something to the table and cut it off later, keep the cup flat on the table. I also find that the hat style grinding wheels cut through the mill scale more easily. I don't put anything on my table to protect it. A quick hit with the hat disc and you'll be dingle ball free, if you should arc or mig weld on your table. Rust too.

Here is an example of the grinding wheel I'm talking about. Its a type 28 wheel.
http://abrasivebrokers.thomasnet.com/viewitems/type-28-grinding-wheels-1-4-/a24n-fast-grinding-2?

 

[ScubaSteve]

Wow, Ed.....even your tack welds look great! You're gonna get good at this, I can tell. Having an awesome welder helps too Why not just tack the top on using 1 inch welds spaced every few inches? Also, you probably already know this but there's some sweet stuff on youtube regarding welding.....a lot of the tables I see have uniform holes at a few points so you can drop pegs in....you can bend stock between them, and some pegs have a mushroom head for forming sheet metal with a hammer. Anyway, I will keep watching from the wings!

P.S....my SMBO is pissed at me too for spending too much time "out there"....must have something to do with Christmas vacation......

 

[dmfa200]

Have you a vise picked out for your work table? The bigger the better.
Oh and another tip.
If you ever need to hold something down to your table, use a C-clamp that has been cut in half. Cut the clamp at the closest part before the curve, so that the body of the clamp is parallel with the screw.
When you need to hold something down simply tack weld where you cut the body of the clamp on the in-board side to the screw down to the table. If you weld to the out-board side the clamp, it will just fold and break your weld.
It will look something like this...
http://www.valtrainc.com/Half-Clamp Plate.jpg
Just ignore the tubing welded on either side of the clamp.
When your done, grind the tack, smack with a hammer, and grind the tack welds off the clamp and your table and your ready for the next time.
It's called a "Half Clamp"

 

[Ohio-Ed]

Thanks guys.

The table is welded up. I don't have any pictures tonight, I'll try to get a few tomorrow.

I think the biggest problem I had was welding 1/4" plates to the bottom of each leg to mount casters. I quickly learned that laying flat on the table the 1/4" plates were hard to weld (I think because the top was sucking all the heat out).

I ended up just tacking the top to the frame in a few places with the stick welder to keep it from sliding around. I was going to tig some brackets to the frame and then tack the top to them. But then I started trying to figure out if I could tig upside down or how I would roll this thing over if I welded the frame to the top with it upside down.

The steel plate is not 100% flat. It's about 1/8" low in the center. It crossed my mind to attempt to flatten it by welding across it to shrink it, but I decided againt it (for now).

I also decided not to pre-drill holes for clamping. I figure, I'll just tack a clamp in place or drill a hole here and there when and where I need.

I do need a vice. I'd like to keep the table flat with no obstructions , but I do want to add a vice. I've seen some mounted to trailer hitches with a receiver mounted to the table.

Not sure if I want to fool with painting the frame... I'm leaning toward not painting.

Ed

 

[BrewBeemer]

Just an idea Ed, run a couple stringer beams across the underside of the table to remove the concave dish problem.
No worries use your head by welding on tabs and hooks then pound in a wedge to between the beams and tabs to make the top fully contact the beams. This unless you have those super strong "C" clamps iron workers have. Once the table is true and flat again stitch weld the beams to the tabletop, cut off the hooks and tabs and dress. Work thicker iron smart or it'll kick your azz everytime especially working 1/2" and thicker.
As mentioned above a big vice, this is your friend.
Did you add a few plates for your ground clamp to attach on?
Usless thread we need pictures, there got ya.
How do you like the Horsepower (amps) of the 250?
Later you'll have thicker larger projects requiring more amperage aka thick aluminum
that will eat the amps.
Much better than any smaller 20% duty cycle Home Depot / El Cheapo unit.

 

[Ohio-Ed]

Just an idea Ed, run a couple stringer beams across the underside of the table to remove the concave dish problem.
No worries use your head by welding on tabs and hooks then pound in a wedge to between the beams and tabs to make the top fully contact the beams. This unless you have those super strong "C" clamps iron workers have. Once the table is true and flat again stitch weld the beams to the tabletop, cut off the hooks and tabs and dress. Work thicker iron smart or it'll kick your azz everytime especially working 1/2" and thicker.
As mentioned above a big vice, this is your friend.
Did you add a few plates for your ground clamp to attach on?
Usless thread we need pictures, there got ya.
How do you like the Horsepower (amps) of the 250?
Later you'll have thicker larger projects requiring more amperage aka thick aluminum
that will eat the amps.
Much better than any smaller 20% duty cycle Home Depot / El Cheapo unit.

I might get ambitious and try to flatten the top at some point, but for now I think I'll just live with it. Do you think I can bend the 1/2" plate with the 1/8" wall square tubing?

I have not attached plates for grounding, for now I think I can just attach the work clamp to the top.

I used my Thunderbolt 225 to tack the top on (I didn't feel like taking the tig torch off) so the 1/4" plate is as thick as I've touched with the 250. I'm wondering just how far I can push the 250 on the 50amp breaker it is on... I had it at about 175amps when I welded the 1/4" plates and it was pretty sweet.

First attempt at welding the 1/4" plate I forgot to turn on the argon bottle and melted the tungsten. I assume you turn off the gas at the bottle when you are finished?

Kind of interesting dragging the pedal around, using both feet and torch in both hands and in awkward positions. I GOTTA get a cover for the torch hoses. What do you think of this one (it's about half the cost of the nylon ones I've seen): http://cgi.ebay.com/Soft-Leather-TI...730?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item563dc6d2d2

I'll get some pictures for ya soon, I promise.

Now I gotta start thinking about the next project...

Ed

 

[BrewBeemer]

I might get ambitious and try to flatten the top at some point, but for now I think I'll just live with it. Do you think I can bend the 1/2" plate with the 1/8" wall square tubing?

I have not attached plates for grounding, for now I think I can just attach the work clamp to the top.

I used my Thunderbolt 225 to tack the top on (I didn't feel like taking the tig torch off) so the 1/4" plate is as thick as I've touched with the 250. I'm wondering just how far I can push the 250 on the 50amp breaker it is on... I had it at about 175amps when I welded the 1/4" plates and it was pretty sweet.

First attempt at welding the 1/4" plate I forgot to turn on the argon bottle and melted the tungsten. I assume you turn off the gas at the bottle when you are finished?

Kind of interesting dragging the pedal around, using both feet and torch in both hands and in awkward positions. I GOTTA get a cover for the torch hoses. What do you think of this one (it's about half the cost of the nylon ones I've seen): http://cgi.ebay.com/Soft-Leather-TI...730?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item563dc6d2d2

I'll get some pictures for ya soon, I promise.

Now I gotta start thinking about the next project...

Ed

Nope you'll need 2" x 4" x 1/4" wall box on edge to pull the table flat and stay flat. I'd rather overbuild than have failure.

Bad news clamping ground on table as work projects will hit it.

Thunserbolt, what's wrong with using stick with Mr. Miller?

So you used "175 amps" try that on a "el Cheapo" welder, HP aka AMPS rules.

Using the pedal, hands and feet aka multitasking, apply your best bedroom talents you'll do ok.

Argon not on, can't help ya there, been a retard myself but learned quickly regrinding the tungsten.

Pictures i'm waiting, where are they!!!!!!!

Next project make something fancy for the War Department she'll be surprised and happy. Unhappy your screwed don't get her PO'ed.

There tonight i'm an equal opportunity offender feeling cranky as one hurting Mo Fo. Prost Ed.

 

[Berniep]

Clamps, lots of Bessy quick adjust and Kant twist (sp) clamps. If every storage space in your shop is filled with clamps then you might be getting close to having enough.
Here is what I am talking about for anyone interested.
http://www.amazon.com/Bessey-6-Inch-Super-Quick-Sliding/dp/B0006694B4/ref=pd_bxgy_hi_text_b

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0007KXNJS...e=asn&creative=395105&creativeASIN=B0007KXNJS

 

[BrewBeemer]

Ed's screwed if he ordered 8 to 10 Bessy clamps at $28 a pop at one time. Ed should sneak a couple purchases at a time home all
is well then.
I've twisted a few Bessy clamps in my time, shop tools not mine with them pushing beyond their capacity.

 

[Ohio-Ed]

Nope you'll need 2" x 4" x 1/4" wall box on edge to pull the table flat and stay flat. I'd rather overbuild than have failure.

Bad news clamping ground on table as work projects will hit it.

Thunserbolt, what's wrong with using stick with Mr. Miller?

So you used "175 amps" try that on a "el Cheapo" welder, HP aka AMPS rules.

Using the pedal, hands and feet aka multitasking, apply your best bedroom talents you'll do ok.

Argon not on, can't help ya there, been a retard myself but learned quickly regrinding the tungsten.

Pictures i'm waiting, where are they!!!!!!!

Next project make something fancy for the War Department she'll be surprised and happy. Unhappy your screwed don't get her PO'ed.

There tonight i'm an equal opportunity offender feeling cranky as one hurting Mo Fo. Prost Ed.

BB,

My "shed" is a woodworking shop, so when I started the welding table build, I was just looking for a place I could practice welding without catching it on fire. I wasn't too concerned about a true flat surface. Even though I have 3 work benches, I have squared up many wood projects on my tablesaw because it is the truest surface in my shop so I know the benefit.

I didn't use Mr. Miller for the stick, because I just didn't feel like taking the tig torch off and attaching the stinger. So instead I used Mr Miller Jr., the MILLER Thunderbolt 225

I think I see your point about ground "tabs"... so to keep the top clear of obstructions, you weld tabs on the bottom of the table to attach the ground to?

Melting the tungsten reminded me that I only have one 3/32" and one 1/16" tungsten, definitely need to order more.

I'm with you for building something for the War Department to keep the peace, but I really want to build something beer related so this thread is kinda on the subject of the forum.

I have a JSP Malt Mill and I've been milling my grain with a cordless drill. I also have an AC Gear Motor and Spider Coupler... I think it might be time to make up some mounts and motorize the mill.