Going from 3V to eBIAB

[trav77]

Hi Folks,

Been brewing for >10 years and I currently have a pretty typical 3 vessel keggle setup but am thinking of going eBIAB (not ready to get rid of my current brewery - just thinking about a 2nd one for the fleet!) for a number of reasons:

- Brew in the basement instead of the garage/outside. I'm pretty far North. Winter brewing isn't fun.

- Less equipment to clean/maintain.

- (Slightly) quicker brew day. Currently I'm at ~ 5-6 hours and although I love it, with small kids and a busy job it's hard to find time these days.

- Just a generally simpler operation. The whole goal would be to make year-round, indoor, simplified brewing possible with a target brew day of 4 hours.

Anyone else who's done this kind of switch? How has the beer turned out compared to a traditional rig?

Here is what I'm thinking for a brewery:
http://spikebrewing.com/collections...s/10-gallon-brew-kettle-2-horizontal-couplers

Talked to Spike and they can do a port to fit an electric element low on the kettle. Also I would add a whirlpool inlet.

Currently I have a chugger pump and a plate chiller to use with it and I would add in a stainless basket somehow supported above the element/fittings. In the first incarnation it would be a fairly manual operation with no automation.

Any general thoughts or pitfalls?

 

[iijakii]

I recently went from 3v eHERMS to eBIAB and love it. Definitely get a 2" TC port welded in for the element. I got my pot from coloradobrewingsupply and it's good quality; Spike's stuff looks good too.

I think if simplicity is your goal you should skip the basket and just get a bag from wilser (make sure to get the pulley too!). I just insulate with a couple blankets and I definitely get a good 2F loss every 20 mins but the kicker is my FG is still spot on like hwen I had my HERMS. But I understand the appeal of recirculating heated mash if that's what you want to do.

 

[wysiwyg]

Being from MN, I can totally understand where you're coming from! I used to brew on a 3V with a neighbor in his garage, and grew tired of winter brewing very fast. When he moved I built my own basement eBIAB setup and love it. I don't use pumps but I use a plate chiller and hopsocks to minimize clogging the chiller. Since you have so much brewing experience, I bet you'll find the switch quite easy. Analyze the basement space you're moving into, fit the equipment and process into it, and I'm sure you'll be quite happy.

 

[sillbeer]

I'm new from a 3V system to eBIAB and I love it. I'm glad I went with a bag instead of a basket also. I thought the bag would be lacking a little but it's actually easy to use.

 

[trav77]

Glad to hear positive responses! Sounds like the basket is superfluous and I'll definitely look into a Wilser bag. My concern with the bag alone was snagging on internal hardware (i.e. thermo probe etc.) but if I mount the valve/pickup, themo, and element as low as possible then I just need to make sure the bag is suspended above them.

For a simple way to maintain mash temp without insulation - how about wiring the element to a simple switch? Then during the mash, continuously pump & recirculate at a low rate, and just flick the element on for a short burst once every 10 mins or so? Not as slick as some of the automated systems but not ready to get that deep yet. I'm reasonably useful but wiring electronics is not my forte.

 

[iijakii]

When you pull the bag just push it back with your spoon so it doesnt get snagged on the temp probe.

You're going to have a bad time trying to maintain temps manually. Either go constant recirculation + PID or insulate.

 

[trav77]

One other question re: bag alone vs. basket - with the bag alone, do you also use a false bottom to keep it sitting up above the element? Or have a good way of securing it from the top so it hangs above?

 

[TexasWine]

One other question re: bag alone vs. basket - with the bag alone, do you also use a false bottom to keep it sitting up above the element? Or have a good way of securing it from the top so it hangs above?

No need for a false bottom or basket unless you plan on firing the element during the mash. You'll most likely scorch your bag with it sitting on the element.

Also, my 2¢ on the kettle. No need for a fancy kettle with a tri clad bottom. Those are only helpful if you're firing it with an open flame and your need to distribute heat. If you want to build something, I'd get the cheapest kettle you could find with appropriate dimensions (height/diameter). Otherwise I'd buy one of the pre made kettles from one of the eBIAB retailers. I've had good experience with brausupply.com.

 

[wilserbrewer]

Lots of good info, I like this trend on keeping it simple...if you adore bling and fancy involved systems, stop reading now

My thoughts...

1. No basket, bag only, less is more and the entire water volume is incorporated into the mash.
2. 20 gallon pot for 10 gallon batches, more time efficient and more stable mash temps.
3. A basic say concord $100 kettle with element and valve, no kettle thermometer IMO, I prefer a digital hand held taking temps only after stirring the mash well. A kettle mount will only give you temp at the probe and can be misleading and in the way...I have no use for one and prefer hand held. Key on a precise strike temp and leave the rest to the beer gods, it will be fine, let the mash "rest" in peace. I find it hard to believe there is tangible difference between a mash that rested at 155-151, than one that was held precisely at 153, jmo.
4. No pump IMO. A pump adds complexity and is not worth the effort, position your BIAB kettle just high enough to gravity drain to your fermenter and be done. Too high will complicate bag removal unnecessarily, unless perhaps you're 6'6" lol.

Even with this basic set up, one can adjust mash temp if a mistake is made and your mash is too cool, just fire the element and stir deeply while monitoring the temp, say you need or want to bump 2 degrees. With experience you will learn the proper strike temp for your system and typically should not have to add heat or adjust the mash.

I will even go as far as mentioning that variable element control is optional, whereby one can size the element to batch size and run manually at 100%.

My 2 barley kernels, good luck w the new build and basement brewing. You'll enjoy saving a ton of work over a 3 keggle outdoor manual propane rig.

ps A bag will not effectively suspend above something in the kettle, it should be allowed to fully line the entire kettle interior. I hear this frequently that someone wants the bag a certain size to stay away from kettle elements or fittings, it doesn't really work that way IME. The bag and mash should and will conform to any available space.

pss maybe a 3500w induction plate if your staying at 5 gal batches, they look pretty slick.
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=301722

 

[RM-MN]

I agree with most points that Wilserbrewer brings up but I differ in that I prefer smaller batches to get me more variety in the types of beers I brew and drink. 10 gallons of a beer that I don't particularly care for is a lot to choke down while a 2 1/2 gallon seems more reasonable. It only takes a little more time for heating to do a 5 gallon batch and a little more than that to do 10 gallons so you fit the pot and heater size to what amount you want to brew.

His idea of doing a larger batch for more stable temperature seems like a good plan until you start exploring how long it takes for conversion. Then you find that since the conversion is over so quickly, varying mash temps over the course of an hour long mash is not worth worrying about. After conversion is done, you will only be extracting sugars and flavors and for that the temperature doesn't matter much.

Something you probably have already thought about is moisture control. You'll be boiling your wort for a good length of time and the water vapor needs to be extracted from your basement somehow. In winter in Minnesota this isn't much of a problem as you probably need more humidity in your home and the boil off provides that but in summer the humidity level of the air can be extreme and you certainly don't want to add any more to your home.

 

[newnick]

I agree with everything said so far, there are many ways to get the job done effectively.
I however chose to use a basket and love it. I have a system just like what you are thinking about but I use propane for the heat, and it's all manual. I use a 44qt. Bayou Classic that comes with a basket and it has enough room under the basket for a electric element. I've used it with and without circulation and either way it'll get the job done. I'm not sure how much trouble it would be or how well it would work but why not modify one of your current keggles with the element?

 

[Onkel_Udo]

1. No basket, bag only, less is more and the entire water volume is incorporated into the mash.
2. 20 gallon pot for 10 gallon batches, more time efficient and more stable mash temps.
3. A basic say concord $100 kettle with element and valve, no kettle thermometer IMO, I prefer a digital hand held taking temps only after stirring the mash well. A kettle mount will only give you temp at the probe and can be misleading and in the way...I have no use for one and prefer hand held. Key on a precise strike temp and leave the rest to the beer gods, it will be fine, let the mash "rest" in peace. I find it hard to believe there is tangible difference between a mash that rested at 155-151, than one that was held precisely at 153, jmo.
4. No pump IMO. A pump adds complexity and is not worth the effort, position your BIAB kettle just high enough to gravity drain to your fermenter and be done. Too high will complicate bag removal unnecessarily, unless perhaps you're 6'6" lol.

Even with this basic set up, one can adjust mash temp if a mistake is made and your mash is too cool, just fire the element and stir deeply while monitoring the temp, say you need or want to bump 2 degrees. With experience you will learn the proper strike temp for your system and typically should not have to add heat or adjust the mash.

I will even go as far as mentioning that variable element control is optional, whereby one can size the element to batch size and run manually at 100%.

I agree with all of this but I must add emphasis to the last bit by saying I recently went from 3-tier gravity, manual, propane rig to all electric, manual eBiaB. I fire both 2000W elements to reach boil and once it is vigorous, kick one off until I drop in my IC to sanitize.

I do still take about 4-5 hours to brew but I only spend about 45 minutes actively doing anything (including the grinding of grain...by hand...while the water heats up). The simplicity is awesome. The clean up is a breeze. I brew more often and with less effort.

I used existing equipment from my 3-tier and just added elements. I can always switch back but it is more likely I transition to a 20 gal kettle and just move the hardware over.

 

[Onkel_Udo]

I'm not sure how much trouble it would be or how well it would work but why not modify one of your current keggles with the element?

It is easy to do but I suggest chopping the top off if you do (I did). On negative is if you do no sparge it drops you max volume to about 9 gallons...an odd number if you keg.

It takes a little as 2-3 hours to make the modifications and can be a cheap as bout $100.

 

[Powercat]

I also went from a single tier three vessel eHerms system to an electric BIAB. It was a fantastic decision except the resale value of a three vessel system is going down fast since it is becoming a dinosaur in home brewing.

 

[jimyson]

In Converted but sold my 3v setup to find my Brewers Hardware kettle, control panel, and custom mesh basket. I love it!