Getting started with electric system question

[johnny1211]

I currently heat mash and sparge water on my stove, mash in a cooler and boil in a keggle over a propane burner. After much thought, I would like to get started with an electric system. Unfortunately, the cost of putting a full system together right now is not feasible. My question is this. Is it worth it to build an electric brew keggle now, continue to do everything else as is, and add to it (eHLT, eMLT, pumps, etc.) as money allows to create a full electric system, or is it better to wait and put a system all together at once? Thanks for the insight.

 

[processhead]

I currently heat mash and sparge water on my stove, mash in a cooler and boil in a keggle over a propane burner. After much thought, I would like to get started with an electric system. Unfortunately, the cost of putting a full system together right now is not feasible. My question is this. Is it worth it to build an electric brew keggle now, continue to do everything else as is, and add to it (eHLT, eMLT, pumps, etc.) as money allows to create a full electric system, or is it better to wait and put a system all together at once? Thanks for the insight.

With some thought and planning you can built a scalable electric system.
One advantage is it allows you to learn as you build and expand.
The planning aspect is to design and layout your control panel for what you want now as well as in the future. This mostly just means buying an enclosure with enough room for more stuff to be added later. You also want to size you electrical supply for current and future needs.
An electric BK is a good first step. You can even use it to heat your strike water.

 

[kenh]

I suggest that you start with a RIMS tube with a mash controller & March pump to go along with your cooler mash tun. Then if you know how to weld or have a friend with a welder start watching the sides of the road for throw-away metal bed frames. Old steel bed frames make great brew stands.

When you can affort to, have a 30 Amp 240V circuit installed where you will be brewing. I'm lucky - I had my electrician brother in-law install mine.

As far as controllers go, Kal probably makes the best one but he is expensive.
http://www.theelectricbrewery.com/

You can buy separate purpose-built modules a lot cheaper than Kal's system and mount them on your brew stand. And besides eBay sellers who I generally don't trust, these two sites probably offer the lowest cost controllers out there.
High Gravity - http://goo.gl/wCTbQ2
Kegkits - http://goo.gl/TCqaQb

 

[processhead]

I suggest that you start with a RIMS tube with a mash controller & March pump to go along with your cooler mash tun. Then if you know how to weld or have a friend with a welder start watching the sides of the road for throw-away metal bed frames. Old steel bed frames make great brew stands.

When you can affort to, have a 30 Amp 240V circuit installed where you will be brewing. I'm lucky - I had my electrician brother in-law install mine.

As far as controllers go, Kal probably makes the best one but he is expensive.
http://www.theelectricbrewery.com/

You can buy separate purpose-built modules a lot cheaper than Kal's system and mount them on your brew stand. And besides eBay sellers who I generally don't trust, these two sites probably offer the lowest cost controllers out there.
High Gravity - http://goo.gl/wCTbQ2
Kegkits - http://goo.gl/TCqaQb

I actually took this approach when I started AG brewing, and did a rims system first.

IMO a rims system is a more complicated project than an electric brew kettle w/ basic PWM controller.

For someone with limited experience who wants to take the incremental approach, an electric BK may a be better first step with a less steep learning curve.

 

[TheBrewinator]

I'm doing something similar in starting out with just an ekettle since my association isn't keen on me running my propane burner on my patio. I'm gonna start with a 5500w element in my kettle and use it as both my HLT and BK. First version of the control panel is going to be 1 PID and I'm going to continue to mash in my converted cooler. I'll just heat strike water in my ekettle, pump it to my mash tun, dough in and mash, then put the sparge water in the kettle.

I'll just lauter into a bucket then pump the sparge water into the mash tun and dump the first runnings into the kettle and finish running off into the kettle while getting the boil going.

It's going to be basically the system I currently use with propane but use electric to heat. Someday I'll expand the control panel and convert the 2nd keg I have cut into a dedicated HLT and make either a HERMS or RIMS system but that is a ways off into the future. By at least starting with the ekeggle I can get back to brewing.

 

[johnny1211]

Thanks for the ideas/thoughts. I'm looking forward to getting started in the near future.

 

[augiedoggy]

Keep in mind that most of the ready built control panels will cost you 3 to 4 times as much as if you sourced the component yourself and followed online threads and advice on assembling it... that kegkits panel for $690. (Which I agree is one of the most reasonably priced ready built options) only contains about $200.00 In hardware and $490 labor to assemble...they even use the older non manual my pin TA4 pids which can be bought for $38 and includes the pt-100 sensor, ssr and heat sink which is really all that's needed besides a case and wire to build the control box.

If you want manual pid control (this is a must for BK only) you want the Td4 paid (if your going with my pin pids) The TD4 does have manual mode to control the boil and is still only about $28 (for paid only) you could also use a knob style manual pwm controller...

I have both. As well as the rtc Rex model pids which are the cheapest and only display celcius. These are of questionable quality with many do a complaints although many of those are from people not wiring them correctly.
YouTube was a great source for advice and inspiration for me....there are builds ranging all the way from sub $100 budget builds all the way to the exotic over the top builds there. One guy even wonders off topic during the middle of his new brew setup presentation to show off his speed boat and beamer in the driveway....lol..

 

[kenh]

I took a look at the one www.kegkits.com sells more out of curiosity than anything because I have all my stuff built. Based on what I have in my controller I agree - he's got about $200 in parts in his setup. Www.highgravitybrew.com probably has about the same parts cost in his controllers.

I looked at the controllers Kal sells on his www.theelectricbrewery.com web site and my best guess is he has somewhere around $350 - $400 in parts.

That's quite a difference between hardware cost and final selling price but I guess they all have to make money to pay the rent and everything else associated with producing a product and we don't have to. Maybe I need to see of my brother in-law wants to get into the controller busiess with me? He has a large garage with heat.

 

[bannerj]

I actually took this approach when I started AG brewing, and did a rims system first.

IMO a rims system is a more complicated project than an electric brew kettle w/ basic PWM controller.
.

I keep searching for the thread that links me to the tutorial on all that I need to know about setting up the basic heating element with a PWM. Its all scattered about. I can't get my head fully wrapped around it all. Any quick links?

 

[briord1]

Hi all. I'm looking for some help wiring my basic basic RIMS tube cooler MLT. I believe I have all the correct parts but I'm looking for some opinions on how to wire up the system. Here is a list and pic of my parts:

Cooler MLT w/false bottom
SS Chugger pump w/SS ball valve
1.5" SS tri-clover RIMS tube
Camco 1500W 120v heating element
4" temp probe
Auber 2352 PID
Auber 25A SSR
Heat sink to be mounted outside box
2 120V lighted switches (pump & element)
2 outlets for pump and element
1 LED indicator for element power

I plan on running the system off a standard 110 GFCI. Any direction/criticism will help. I'm just beginning. Thanks.

 

[briord1]

Hi all. I'm looking for some help wiring my basic basic RIMS tube cooler MLT. I believe I have all the correct parts but I'm looking for some opinions on how to wire up the system. Here is a list and pic of my parts:

Cooler MLT w/false bottom
SS Chugger pump w/SS ball valve
1.5" SS tri-clover RIMS tube
Camco 1500W 120v heating element
4" temp probe
Auber 2352 PID
Auber 25A SSR
Heat sink to be mounted outside box
2 120V lighted switches (pump & element)
2 outlets for pump and element
1 LED indicator for element power

I plan on running the system off a standard 110 GFCI. Any direction/criticism will help. I'm just beginning. Thanks.

I forgot the pic...

 

[processhead]

Where to start?



If you don't have it already, you will also need an adapter to install your heating element into your RIMS tube. Are you building/buying a false bottom or manifold for your cooler MLT? If you are doing BIAB, you would not need one. There other small parts and fitting you will need as well.

You will obviously need some plumbing between your cooler, pump and RIMS tube.

I mounted my pump, RIMS tube, on a board to make it more or less unitized.

Then I ran 1/2" OD flexible reinforced vinyl tubing between my cooler and the board.

This just gets you started.

 

[briord1]

Where to start?



If you don't have it already, you will also need an adapter to install your heating element into your RIMS tube. Are you building/buying a false bottom or manifold for your cooler MLT? If you are doing BIAB, you would not need one. There other small parts and fitting you will need as well.

You will obviously need some plumbing between your cooler, pump and RIMS tube.

I mounted my pump, RIMS tube, on a board to make it more or less unitized.

Then I ran 1/2" OD flexible reinforced vinyl tubing between my cooler and the board.

This just gets you started.

Thanks. I have all of the supplies you mentioned. I am more looking for help on the controller build.

 

[processhead]

Assuming that you already have a workable circuit design, you might start thinking about panel layout.

Think about the layout of components on the front panel, do some sketches to get idea of how it all fits together.

Keep in mind that you have components mounted inside on the back panel. You will need to maintain enough clearance between the stuff that protrudes inside that might interfere with the things that mount on the back panel.

Think about how your field wiring enters the panel and how you can terminate it without a lot of extra wire that takes up space or potentially gets it the way.

Good panel fabrication requires some visualization skills. Ideally you want a pretty good idea of how its going together before you drill the first hole.

 

[COEBRA]

I took a look at the one www.kegkits.com sells more out of curiosity than anything because I have all my stuff built. Based on what I have in my controller I agree - he's got about $200 in parts in his setup. Www.highgravitybrew.com probably has about the same parts cost in his controllers.

I looked at the controllers Kal sells on his www.theelectricbrewery.com web site and my best guess is he has somewhere around $350 - $400 in parts.

I don't know man... I've been planning mine for awhile and the box, 3 PIDS, and the timer is already over $200... I agree that maybe a single element, one PID and a small box MIGHT be around $100-$200. The receptacles for your cords and the bottom of the controller are where the most money is. Like $40 a piece!

Sent from my Android using the HomebrewTalk mobile app.

 

[augiedoggy]

I don't know man... I've been planning mine for awhile and the box, 3 PIDS, and the timer is already over $200... I agree that maybe a single element, one PID and a small box MIGHT be around $100-$200. The receptacles for your cords and the bottom of the controller are where the most money is. Like $40 a piece!

Sent from my Android using the HomebrewTalk mobile app.

your looking at the wrong stuff...

pids with manual mode and ssr=heatsinks are $33 a piece with shipping.(mypin TD4 series) $26 without ssr and heatsink.. 3 rtd sensors are 15-18 bucks shipped ($6 a piece) an electrical box is $30 from the home depot... contactors are about $10 a piece... 10/3 cord is $2.00 ft at home depot....
elements are $30 a piece for the good ones switches are $3 a piece indicator lights are $2 and a timer is $25 switchcraft outlets $4-5 xlr 3 pin plugs $2 a piece.....it all adds up to around 250-300 bucks for a 3 pid setup.
I just built one a month ago. four brews later and its worth its weight in gold.

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0087O6S2A/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

http://www.ebay.com/itm/261314151431?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649

http://www.ebay.com/itm/SESTOS-Elec...rg=20131230161411&rk=5&rkt=10&sd=181205783731

http://www.ebay.com/itm/230919488173?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649

http://www.ebay.com/itm/400569511416?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649

http://www.ebay.com/itm/271040730925?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=181288885392

http://www.ebay.com/itm/111179002321?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649

http://www.ebay.com/itm/310569446042?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649

http://www.ebay.com/itm/301002676248?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649

http://www.ebay.com/itm/130926067436?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649

http://www.ebay.com/itm/140735792449?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649

 

[COEBRA]

your looking at the wrong stuff...

pids with manual mode and ssr=heatsinks are $33 a piece with shipping.(mypin TD4 series) $26 without ssr and heatsink.. 3 rtd sensors are 15-18 bucks shipped ($6 a piece) an electrical box is $30 from the home depot... contactors are about $10 a piece... 10/3 cord is $2.00 ft at home depot....
elements are $30 a piece for the good ones switches are $3 a piece indicator lights are $2 and a timer is $25 switchcraft outlets $4-5 xlr 3 pin plugs $2 a piece.....it all adds up to around 250-300 bucks for a 3 pid setup.

What size box did you get for $30? The 16x16x8 like Kal's is $100 alone. I got my box for free so I'm that much cheaper. The only thing I really saw cheaper in those links were the Chinese indicator lights. I'll probably get those even though they will take a month to get here lol. The wrong on the inside and the GFCI breaker with set you back the missing $100.



Sent from my Android using the HomebrewTalk mobile app.

 

[augiedoggy]

What size box did you get for $30? The 16x16x8 like Kal's is $100 alone. I got my box for free so I'm that much cheaper. The only thing I really saw cheaper in those links were the Chinese indicator lights. I'll probably get those even though they will take a month to get here lol. The wrong on the inside and the GFCI breaker with set you back the missing $100.



Sent from my Android using the HomebrewTalk mobile app.

well a gfci spa panel is $59 at home depot, you never mentioned the house wiring... The pids are only $26 you mentioned $40 a piece and you stated three pids and a timer were already $200. Where three mypin TD4 pids and a timer cost $128 with included shipping on ebay...
.. all the indicator lights are from china.. even the ones stocked in the states and marked up... my box if 16x16x 8 I think but its plastic... you can find them in the electrical conduit and box isle at home depot.
like you already guessed its all it what you want to spend and how impatient you are...it took a month for me to get everything from suppliers and manufacturers were I could have gone through extra middlemen here and got it a lot sooner but paid dearly..

 

[COEBRA]

I need to look deeper into the TD4s. I've come to realize the panel is by far the most expensive piece of an electric setup though. I'm planning a "complete" controller so if I add pumps and more kettles in the future the hires will already be cut and drilled. I'm just going to cover the unused holes with plugs and caps until I need them.

Sent from my Android using the HomebrewTalk mobile app.

 

[augiedoggy]

Well I have a couple TD4 pids and a "ta" series one the "TD" series all have manual mode and the last digit (4 in this case) just stands for formfactor or size..
I also have a rex c100 and while it works... it only does Celsius and theres no manual mode. its being replaced with a td4 soon. which I also find easier to reprogram.
I have pwm speed controllers and plugs as well as a 12v power supply inside my panel to run those pumps and a cooling fan... So far they have worked flawlessly and the flow level is great. only 4 brew so far on this though.

 

[kal]

I looked at the controllers Kal sells on his www.theelectricbrewery.com web site and my best guess is he has somewhere around $350 - $400 in parts.

Sorry, but you're off by a factor of 3-4. The timer alone is almost $200 (for example). Just stating to set realistic expectations. You run down the list of parts yourself and add them up. We buy in lots of 200+ but the savings isn't as great as you'd imagine.

Kal

 

[COEBRA]

Sorry, but you're off by a factor of 3-4. The timer alone is almost $200 (for example). Just stating to set realistic expectations. You run down the list of parts yourself and add them up. We buy in lots of 200+ but the savings isn't as great as you'd imagine.

Kal

I'm glad you chimed in on this Kal! I've been following your website for building my electric brewery! It's by no means "cheap!"

Sent from my Android using the HomebrewTalk mobile app.

 

[augiedoggy]

For the budget limited folks the sestos timer is like $28 dollars shipped and does just about everything the timer above does only it only has a two step timer option.... it takes like 3 seconds to reset and alter the third or more steps though...
It what I use and has worked well thus far.