Gelatin Not Working

[KeyWestBrewing]

Title pretty much says it all. I kegged an IPA about 5 days ago and after letting the keg chill for a day @ 32f I used a packet of Knox gelatin as directed in the many threads around here. Two days after adding the gelatin I poured off a pint or so of sludge but the beer never ran clear. So I left it for another couple days and just pulled a bit off the tap to see if it cleared up. Well its still very murky. I'm a bit disappointed after reading thread after thread about people getting crystal clear beer. I made sure to heat the gelatin up a little bit at a time in the microwave until it was 150f and translucent so I'm not sure why I'm getting different results. I haven't dry hopped the beer yet so that's not a factor. Anyone have any ideas what went wrong here?

 

[Roadie]

Is it a big IPA with a lot of hops? I expect some hop haze with IPAs but the gelatin should definitely cut the murky beer way back.


Almost Famous Brewing Company

 

[solbes]

1) Time. You won't be able to see it because its in your keg, but the gelatin clears the beer from top to bottom. Usually clears most of it out in the first 5-10 days. I bet its working, but you haven't gotten rid of the yeast thats falling out yet.

2) When to add gelatin. I always add it in primary or in secondary and let it clear before I rack it to packaging. That way all the stuff falls to the bottom and I rack off of it. I think you will get the same result soon, but first you have to pull pints to get the stuff that fell to the bottom of your keg.

 

[KeyWestBrewing]

Its about 7abv and has a decent amount of hops but I really don't think its hop haze. It could be that I haven't given it enough time but from all the threads Ive read it seems to only take a day or two for everyone else to get cleared up. I just put it on gas yesterday so I won't be drinking it for at least a week or so. I guess its just weird to me that I've had beers clear faster without using gelatin and many others seem to be getting much quicker results. I'm also not getting any sludge or anything anymore which makes me think it all already settled and got pulled off the last two times Ive checked.

 

[Roadie]

Yes something doesn't sound right. I carb in the keg and fine at the same time. I give it 3 days to work its magic. I gently shake the keg after putting the gelatin in and in 3 days pour off a pint or two and then it's done. On heavily hopped beers with a dry hop mine never becomes crystal clear.


Almost Famous Brewing Company

 

[KeyWestBrewing]

Yes something doesn't sound right. I carb in the keg and fine at the same time. I give it 3 days to work its magic. I gently shake the keg after putting the gelatin in and in 3 days pour off a pint or two and then it's done. On heavily hopped beers with a dry hop mine never becomes crystal clear.


Almost Famous Brewing Company

I'll admit I didn't stir it in or rock the keg. But again after reading post after post on here and AHA of others just pouring it in and letting it go I didn't think it would make a difference. All stating they got the same results you do in the same amount of time. Maybe I am just not giving it enough time but the beer is no clearer now than it was in my carboy.

So where should I go from here? Just wait it out or should I try adding another round of finings?

 

[dadshomebrew]

You probably just have lots of gunk sitting at the bottom of your keg (a result of fining) that is causing cloudy pours. This is typical and to be expected. The next few will show improvement, and then you should be in the clear

If you move the keg, you will resuspend some sediment and be back to murky pours for a short while. So be prepared if you are moving the keg to serve at your party.

As was mentioned before, the way to avoid heavy sediment in the keg is to use finings in either primary or secondary.

 

[KeyWestBrewing]

Would the gunk at the bottom still come out sludgy until it clears or will the beer just look murky? I'm wondering because I only got about two pours of jelly and since its just been murky beer.
I don't secondary and in this case didnt have any empty carboys to make it an option. To those that add the gelatin to the fermenter are you cold crashing when you do this? That's another option I don't really have unless I do it in the keg.

 

[solbes]

Would the gunk at the bottom still come out sludgy until it clears or will the beer just look murky? I'm wondering because I only got about two pours of jelly and since its just been murky beer.
I don't secondary and in this case didnt have any empty carboys to make it an option. To those that add the gelatin to the fermenter are you cold crashing when you do this? That's another option I don't really have unless I do it in the keg.

Another question, how much water did you dissolve the packet of gelatin in? I usually go 3/4 to 1 cup. Any less and the gelatin does not all dissolve.

I think if you were to sample what was on top of the keg it would be pretty clear. It will get there soon on the bottom of the keg.

As to adding directly to primary, yes I usually cold crash for a day. Open the lid, add the gelatin and lightly sir, close it up. And rack another 4 or 5 days later. There is some contorversy here on whether adding gelatin to cold beer helps any. It would seem that it clears the yeast out regardless, but may precipitate out some chill haze when added to cold beer.

 

[KeyWestBrewing]

Another question, how much water did you dissolve the packet of gelatin in? I usually go 3/4 to 1 cup. Any less and the gelatin does not all dissolve.

I think if you were to sample what was on top of the keg it would be pretty clear. It will get there soon on the bottom of the keg.

As to adding directly to primary, yes I usually cold crash for a day. Open the lid, add the gelatin and lightly sir, close it up. And rack another 4 or 5 days later. There is some contorversy here on whether adding gelatin to cold beer helps any. It would seem that it clears the yeast out regardless, but may precipitate out some chill haze when added to cold beer.

I used 1 cup of water. I also made sure to chill the beer for 24 hours @ 32f before I added the gelatin since I too read the colder the beer the better the results. I'll give it a few more days and see what happens. If not I guess I'll try it again.

 

[krahm]

You can add the gelatin to warm beer (beer temp. makes no difference), you can add it to the keg, and you don't need to stir. You're not doing anything wrong. You're not getting the goo from the bottom of the keg either. That only comes out on the initial pour, unless you disturb the keg or change the C02 pressure. You've just got terrible chill haze for some reason. I had a batch like that last fall. I hit it twice with gelatin and got no results, so I did a bit of research on the subject, and I found a great post that analyzed how gelatin works. The conclusion was that Gelatin pulls the yeast out of suspension. It doesn't affect proteins. You need a different fining agent for chill haze (or you just need to lager the beer). I suppose it's possible that the science was in error somewhere, but that poster's conclusions meshed with my own anecdotal experience.

I realize this response runs counter to accepted wisdom in several respects, so feel free to take it for what you think it's worth. However, I think you'll find that (1) you will get the same results by adding gelatin to warm beer that you get when you add it to cold beer (I've done it both ways, in case you're curious, and seen no difference whatsoever) and (2) your current batch will not change one bit by adding a second dose of gelatin (though you certainly should try, if only for your own peace of mind). Good luck!

 

[KeyWestBrewing]

Thanks for the response. I'm gonna give it a few more days and see if its improved any. Hopefully all will be good but I'm not too worried about it if it doesn't clear.

 

[GHBWNY]

Another question, how much water did you dissolve the packet of gelatin in? I usually go 3/4 to 1 cup. Any less and the gelatin does not all dissolve.

I think if you were to sample what was on top of the keg it would be pretty clear. It will get there soon on the bottom of the keg.

As to adding directly to primary, yes I usually cold crash for a day. Open the lid, add the gelatin and lightly sir, close it up. And rack another 4 or 5 days later.

I gel'd an American Wheat to see what effect it would have on a beer that was traditionally cloudy. After a day of c-c @ 36F., I added gel. mix (125F.) to primary. Having a ferm bucket made it easy to stir it in. Then back to the fridge for 4 more days.

Prior to c-c, what I did at FG reading was pour the test jar sample of cloudy wort into a clear drinking glass and added a proportionately small amount of the gel mix to it, stirred it in and covered it with plastic wrap and put it in the fridge alongside the ferm bucket. It gave me kind of a "window" into what might be going on in the bucket. I was able to see the beer clear up in the glass day by day without disturbing the bucket. When I racked the beer to bottling, it was about 75% clearer coming out than when it went in.

 

[fearwig]

Warm beer has its chill haze proteins in solution. So yes, if you use gelatin on warm beer, it will not help with chill haze. If you cold crash for several days, then apply gelatin, you will have more success.

 

[Roadie]

Also when you racked maybe you picked up excessive trub. My son just did this when we were racking an IPA this past weekend. Going to put in gelatin but may have cloudy pours down the drain more than the usual 1 or 2 as I'm not sure how much trub he actually siphoned into the keg.


Almost Famous Brewing Company

 

[fearwig]

I don't think racked trub stays in suspension, from my experience, just makes for extra bottle/keg sediment. Anything that was previously dropped out should really drop out, at least in cold conditioning.

 

[Roadie]

Thought we were talking about kegs. Hoping some trub comes out with the gelatin dumps.


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