frustrated with kegging ... why does my beer not appear carbonated?

[SamuraiSquirrel]

So I have been kegging for awhile........

Basically the reason that I am writing this post is because my kegged beers never APPEAR carbed once they are poured. If I pour a bottle conditioned beer there is a nice head and there are running bubbles up the glass. A "fizzy" appearance. My kegged beers pours with a slim head. The amount of head is not my concern though. For some reason my kegged beers do not have any bubbles in the beer as the bottle conditioned beers do. They appear still and flat after they are poured. Is this normal? I don't really understand why there is a difference between the two? Can anyone explain.

Just a few facts about my setup:
I have 2 beers that I am referring to above - an IPA and a Irish red ale both exhibit this same "lack of carbonation" appearance.
These beers have been on the gas for about 2 months
Freezer is set at 38
Pressure is set at 13
Beer lines are 6.5 feet.
I have CO2 in my tank lol. If I close gas valve, release keg pressure, you can definately hear it refilling with gas when you reopen the co2 valve. I've checked this about 5 different times.

A few things that I have tried:
Shorter lines - I tried 5 foot lines. This resulted in a "foamier" pour as expected but no more of a "bubbly" appearance.
I tried raising pressure up to 15 - Still no more "bubbly" of an appearance.
The beer seems to have co2 dissolved - If i pour a glass and put my hand over it and agitate the beer will spray everywhere lol.


So I'm just not sure why there is this difference of appearance? I'm stumped. Is this normal with kegged beers? I might have to pour a glass of each (bottle conditioned and keg carbed) and take a video to illustrate the difference that I am talking about.

 

[mrduna01]

Hmmm that's an odd predicament. My kegged beers, albeit I'm only on my fourth keg, come out with similar carbonation as my bottles do. I'm interested in what others have to say.

 

[Boleslaus]

Have you simply tried a more aggressive pour? If you are pouring gently down the side of your glass you can get the beer into the glass without any agitation and therefore hardly any bubbles and very little head. Pour straight down the middle and see.

 

[Reno_eNVy]

You tried shorter line.... did you try longer line? I seriously think that will solve your problem as it reduced foam (the act of CO2 being released from solution)

 

[scinerd3000]

what do you clean your kegs with?....If there's residue in the lines or kegs they can have an issue with the development of a good head although it should still technically be carbonated. Are you sure your regulator is correct at 15psi?

 

[SamuraiSquirrel]

I did not try longer line ......... I had that thought but since I get very little head on my pours I had kind of ruled the line issue out

Kegs are cleaned with Oxyclean ..... rinsed & stored. Prior to kegging they are sanitized with star san.

Regulator ...... it tipped over a couple months ago and fell on the high pressure gauge which is now disfunctional. It doesn't leak though and since high pressure gauges are fairly useless I didn't replace it. The other gauges were not affected by the fall ....... or so i thought?....... In any case it DOES NOT leak as I've been on the same co2 tank for a couple months and it still has gas in it. Maybe the fall jacked up the accuracy of my regulator gauges though?

 

[Seven]

Regulator ...... it tipped over a couple months ago and fell on the high pressure gauge which is now disfunctional. It doesn't leak though and since high pressure gauges are fairly useless I didn't replace it. The other gauges were not affected by the fall ....... or so i thought?....... In any case it DOES NOT leak as I've been on the same co2 tank for a couple months and it still has gas in it. Maybe the fall jacked up the accuracy of my regulator gauges though?

Did you get any carbonation in your beers prior to the regulator mishap you described here? If the regulator took a hard hit during the fall it may not be working properly.

 

[SamuraiSquirrel]

I can't really remember .... the fall happened really early on when I got my kegging setup. I had a beer on tap with a picnic tap. I was building keezer and pulled co2 out to lift the freezer up onto my caster base which is when it took the fall and blew the high pressure gauge.

So I had one beer on tap prior to the fall for about 3 weeks. I have no recollection of the carbonation level of this beer prior to when the regulator took the dive lol.

I guess there really is no easy answer to this question .... more troubleshooting is in order. Possibly testing a different regulator and seeing if that makes a difference.

Sounds like there is something wrong though, my beer should appear just the same as a bottle conditioned beer from what I am gathering.

 

[Reno_eNVy]

I'm still going to go ahead and say 10 feet of 3/16" line, properly cooled will provide much more resistance, thus reducing foaming on the pour. This will cause CO2 to stay dissolved in solution and will give you the gorgeous bubbly fiesta you want.

 

[broadbill]

I'm still going to go ahead and say 10 feet of 3/16" line, properly cooled will provide much more resistance, thus reducing foaming on the pour. This will cause CO2 to stay dissolved in solution and will give you the gorgeous bubbly fiesta you want.

yeah but the OP said that if wasn't foaming all that much to start with. I'd buy your hypothesis if he was getting nothing but foamy pours to start with. It sounds like the beer isn't carbed from the get-go. I'm wondering if this a problem with his regulator getting knocked over...

 

[wildwest450]

Try tapping on the low pressure gauge, does it move? I had a regulator go bad it was over carbonating everything. It read 12 but when tapped it would jump uo to 14 or so. No more cheap ass regulators for me.

Btw, if your 2nd pour is at 38f, and your gauge is really at 13psi, you will be fully carbed, even twords the high side for those styles.

Line length has zero to do with carbonation levels. Zero.


_

 

[Reno_eNVy]

yeah but the OP said that if wasn't foaming all that much to start with. I'd buy your hypothesis if he was getting nothing but foamy pours to start with. It sounds like the beer isn't carbed from the get-go. I'm wondering if this a problem with his regulator getting knocked over...

Oh my bad... jeez, it's too early on a weekend for me to be concentrating on things Me no read gud....

 

[SamuraiSquirrel]

So I tried tapping the regulators and the gauges lightly. No movement on the needle. Stays right at 13 psi.

I realize they are highly carbed for the style. I started them at 10 psi shooting for 2.4 vols and then after a month and having little to nothing. I upped them to 13 which is where they sit now. At this point I'm not too concerned about these beers. More concerned about getting the carbonation right for future beers going forward.

I'm wondering if there is a way to test output pressure with a tire gauge or something of the sort that isn't too much work to rig up .........

 

[chemman14]

I'm still going to go ahead and say 10 feet of 3/16" line, properly cooled will provide much more resistance, thus reducing foaming on the pour. This will cause CO2 to stay dissolved in solution and will give you the gorgeous bubbly fiesta you want.

10 feet is the "go to" length of beer hose? I thought it was 5 feet?

 

[WPen]

I had actually just had the same issue with one of my kegs and after waiting 3 weeks after the "set it and forget it" method, I realized my beer wasn't carbed. I would get a decent head but no bubbles rising in the beer.
I then said "eff it" and cranked the regulator up to 30 psi and 24 hours later I had perfect carbonation with plenty of bubbles in solution. I later found out it was my regulator; the needle sometimes sticks around 10 psi so I think I only had the beer on about 5 psi the entire time.
Anyways, just my 2 cents. Turn the pressure up for a while and check it again.

 

[Bigscience]

I had the opposite effect where all my beers were overfoaming. I had to drop the pressure way down to get a good pour. When I added a 4-way regulator manifold I found out that my gauge was way out of calibration. I'd tipped the tank over too.

Maybe try checking the presure against another gauge or just replacing it.

 

[brewingmeister]

Line length has zero to do with carbonation levels. Zero.


_

True, very true but longer lines may keep more carb in suspension until it can reach the glass.

Also, have you tried a laser etched glass so you can see the carb rising in the glass?

-cheers

 

[SamuraiSquirrel]

I had actually just had the same issue with one of my kegs and after waiting 3 weeks after the "set it and forget it" method, I realized my beer wasn't carbed. I would get a decent head but no bubbles rising in the beer.
I then said "eff it" and cranked the regulator up to 30 psi and 24 hours later I had perfect carbonation with plenty of bubbles in solution. I later found out it was my regulator; the needle sometimes sticks around 10 psi so I think I only had the beer on about 5 psi the entire time.
Anyways, just my 2 cents. Turn the pressure up for a while and check it again.

I wondered if it was due to "set it and forget it" method. This is the only way I've ever "carbed" my beer (or lack thereof). Supposedly this works for a lot of people but I am a couple months on the gas and not having any luck. I might have to try cranking it up to thirty for a day and see if anything happens.

My needle doesn't appear to stick anywhere though. I can purge the keg and set regulartor really low. Slowly turn up pressure and needle will go up to 30. I've never left the keg pressurized that high. Only did it as a test and immediately puged and reset back at 13.

 

[Bobby_M]

I'm going to guess your gauge is reading more than a couple psi too high.

 

[Gunfighter04]

I'm guessing bad regulator/gage. Take the pressure to 30psi, wait a day and check your beer. You should notice a difference in that time period. After 2 days the beer should be over carbed. That should tell you that you are getting additional CO2 into the system. If you don't, it's the regulator. If the carbonation still seems low, or perhaps correctly carbed, It's the gage.

 

[scinerd3000]

I'm guessing bad regulator/gage. Take the pressure to 30psi, wait a day and check your beer. You should notice a difference in that time period. After 2 days the beer should be over carbed. That should tell you that you are getting additional CO2 into the system. If you don't, it's the regulator. If the carbonation still seems low, or perhaps correctly carbed, It's the gage.

Sounds good. Also. home depot has cheap preasure gauges for gas lines for use with compressors you could most certainly rig up to check output if needed.......good luck

 

[Thundercougarfalconbird]

I actually suffered from the same problem, but my regulator is brand new. Try reversing your corney lids(Had mine on backwards once)

 

[badmajon]

I'm still going to go ahead and say 10 feet of 3/16" line, properly cooled will provide much more resistance, thus reducing foaming on the pour. This will cause CO2 to stay dissolved in solution and will give you the gorgeous bubbly fiesta you want.

I can attest to this! KegConnection shipped their keg kit with 6 foot beer lines. They insisted, and many on here do too, that 6 foot is the correct length for pressurization (12 psi for standard carbing) and serving.

I just went with their advice, and the advice of many experts, and it just didn't work. Each time I wanted to drink my beer, I had to bleed the keg, reset the regulator to 6 psi, and then pour. Sometimes I'd forget to put it back to 12 psi, and I'd get flat beer.

PAIN IN THE ASS...

Then, I expanded my keg system and got 40 foot of 3/16" line for my four kegs. I replaced the 6 foot line supplied to me by KegConnection and VIOLA, I get perfect pour with 12 psi each time. It's literally night and day.

They will quote formulas and math and whatever they want, but this works. 10 foot of line works. 6 foot did not.

 

[TheMan]

I agree, it's probably your regulator. Pump it to 30 PSI and see what happens in 24 hours.

 

[SamuraiSquirrel]

damn you regulator..... for making my CO2 tank so akward when attached ........

It's gonna be a bit before I get to test this. A week or so.

 

[malkore]

yeah but the OP said that if wasn't foaming all that much to start with. I'd buy your hypothesis if he was getting nothing but foamy pours to start with. It sounds like the beer isn't carbed from the get-go. I'm wondering if this a problem with his regulator getting knocked over...

I dunno. I didn't have 'foamy pours' when I ran 12psi and 5 foot taps, but the beer didn't seem carb'd either.

When I raised my line length it helped, but I still got no head.

Then I shortened, and added line inserts via the 'short hose troubles' thread, and now i get perfect pours, with head!

 

[Bigscience]

I agree, it's probably your regulator. Pump it to 30 PSI and see what happens in 24 hours.

Regulators are simple and just control or "regulate" the pressure from the tank. Unless there is something wrong where it leaks (hisses like crazy) or can't get up to pressure (gauge would show this), it can't really be wrong. It's your gauge. Drop $15-$20 on a nice new secondary gauge. Make sure you get the correct tread though.

If you really wanted to know the deal, get some bushings and a tee and hook a know good gauge up along with the questionable one and pressurize the assembly. If not, you could see what the offset is an apply that to all your readings. You could also try to calibrate it, but that's a total PITA.

 

[hydrasports]

I personally carbonate at 20 PSI for the first 3-5 days. Then I drop the PSI to try a glass, if it is carbonated to where I like I will then lower to 10-13 PSI. Seems to work for me.

 

[SamuraiSquirrel]

Okay, so I got around to testing this last night. I upped the pressure to 30 PSI for 14hours (from 1 A.M. until now, just about 3.P.M. the following day).

I cut the gas, purged, and reset regulator back to 12 psi & poured myself a glass.

Amazingly enough, the beer appears exactly as I would expect - carbonated. It looks just kind one of my bottled beers with streams of bubbles running up the glass for the duration of the drink.

So I guess my question now would be ......... so now what?

Do I just start carbing my beers at 30 PSI for the first day or two and then cut to 12 PSI?

Or is this likely a sign that my regulator gauges are bad and I should just consider replacing them? Seems odd that they both would have "broke" in a similar manner (I have a dual body regulator and both "bodies" of the regulator result in the undercarbonation descried in the previous posts.

 

[mattd2]

Okay, so I got around to testing this last night. I upped the pressure to 30 PSI for 14hours (from 1 A.M. until now, just about 3.P.M. the following day).

I cut the gas, purged, and reset regulator back to 12 psi & poured myself a glass.

Amazingly enough, the beer appears exactly as I would expect - carbonated. It looks just kind one of my bottled beers with streams of bubbles running up the glass for the duration of the drink.

So I guess my question now would be ......... so now what?

Do I just start carbing my beers at 30 PSI for the first day or two and then cut to 12 PSI?

Or is this likely a sign that my regulator gauges are bad and I should just consider replacing them? Seems odd that they both would have "broke" in a similar manner (I have a dual body regulator and both "bodies" of the regulator result in the undercarbonation descried in the previous posts.

Replace the gauges, they are pretty fragile and even a slight knock can put them out. If you just carb at "your" 30 psi and then drop back to 12 psi eventually the beer will loose its carb.
Another question is on your gauges is the needle on the 0 post when the regulator is shut off? This was how I realised mine was broken it sat at 5 psi when there was no pressure on it.

 

[Bigscience]

I used to have beers that were overcarbed and I had to way lower the pressure to pour them. The needle was stopped on the peg while there was still ~8 psi. I ended up replacing it and everything is now great. The way I found out was when I added a 4-way secondary. I should have been able to set the tank gauge at a pressure, say 10 psi and no matter how high I cranked up the other regulators, they should go higher than that.

I was able to calibrate the gauge to +/- 2psi but it was a total PITA. So here's what the inside of the gauge looks like:

As the pressure increases, the Bourdon Tube wants to straighten out, like a let's say "balloon". This causes the pinion to turn the dial. To adjust, you have to turn the needle either higher or lower until the pinion teeth come off the gear and then move the needle a tooth or two one way or the other. It's really easy to over shoot and have to go back the other way. Oh, this will only work if you have a known good gauge to compare it too. You would need to set your tank secondary to say 15 psi and then crank up your secondary (the one you want to adjust) and then try to adjust until it is at the same pressure. Unless you really like a challenge or don't have the money for a new gauge, just buy a new one.

 

[ebj5883]

I'm having the same issue if I'm understanding correctly. I'm on my third keg, and all three thus far have had minimal carbonation and taste similar to when tasting during the hydrometer measurement (only slightly more carbonated). I'm new to kegging though, and haven't given carbonation more than 3 days (at 30psi), which I understand for a 65-70 degree temperature, is the norm? Maybe I'll give it a full week just to see what happens?

 

[kapbrew13]

I'm having the same issue if I'm understanding correctly. I'm on my third keg, and all three thus far have had minimal carbonation and taste similar to when tasting during the hydrometer measurement (only slightly more carbonated). I'm new to kegging though, and haven't given carbonation more than 3 days (at 30psi), which I understand for a 65-70 degree temperature, is the norm? Maybe I'll give it a full week just to see what happens?

Leave for a few weeks at low pressure or roll a couple times a day for quicker carbonating.

 

[Jaysus]

I am having a rough time getting the carbonation levels I want too... this thread has some good ideas.

 

[ebj5883]

Leave for a few weeks at low pressure or roll a couple times a day for quicker carbonating.

Is "rolling" as simple as it sounds, in that I would simply roll my keg for a few minutes 2-3 times a day? I'm also carbonating inside my freezerator, should I change this to room temperature?

 

[kapbrew13]

Is "rolling" as simple as it sounds, in that I would simply roll my keg for a few minutes 2-3 times a day? I'm also carbonating inside my freezerator, should I change this to room temperature?

I roll it for a few minutes along the ground. Do this a few times a day. Some people shake it, but I think that's too much work.
My schedule is 30psi for 24 hours, 20 psi for 24 hours, 10 or serving psi for 24 hours while rolling the whole time. I'm happy with my beer.

 

[Reno_eNVy]

I'm having the same issue if I'm understanding correctly. I'm on my third keg, and all three thus far have had minimal carbonation and taste similar to when tasting during the hydrometer measurement (only slightly more carbonated). I'm new to kegging though, and haven't given carbonation more than 3 days (at 30psi), which I understand for a 65-70 degree temperature, is the norm? Maybe I'll give it a full week just to see what happens?

Well one of the big issues as to why it's not carbonated is the temperature. CO2 dissolves into solution soooo much faster at serving temperatures as compared to room temperature. If it was cold, 3 days at 30psi would probably make it overcarbed. Just out of curiosity, is there a specific reason you are carbonating at room temp? No room in the kegerator?

 

[SamuraiSquirrel]

Yeah no rolling is going to be happening in my system. That just sounds like to much work. I would have to disconnect, pull the keg out or keezer, roll around, & reconnect. I see no reason why this should be necessary (I realize these were suggestions for those carbing at room temp, but still).

The next thing I will check is keezer temp as set on the temp controller vs actual temp inside the keezer as this is fairly simple. I tested this awhile back and it was close if not spot on.

Next step which I'm assuming will be necessary (unless my temp controller somehow has been seriously malfunctioning) will be to either set up a test gauge in-line or replace one of the gauges and see how far off my reading on the old gauge was.

I am determined to get this ironed out as I realize that the 30 PSI thing for a day is only a temporary fix and cabonation boost. Assuming temp and pressure are correct there really is no way that the beer cannot carbonate. This only leaves two variables both which are fairly easy to test it seems.

 

[ebj5883]

Well one of the big issues as to why it's not carbonated is the temperature. CO2 dissolves into solution soooo much faster at serving temperatures as compared to room temperature. If it was cold, 3 days at 30psi would probably make it overcarbed. Just out of curiosity, is there a specific reason you are carbonating at room temp? No room in the kegerator?

I've yet to build the collar for the keezer, as I just recently bought the chest freezer and temperature controller two weeks ago and set it up then. I actually just went out to buy the collar materials today, and later this week will add that in and buy the lines/splitters I'll need to hopefully end up with a 4 keg setup in the keezer with dual pressures for carbing and serving.

Long story short though, I tried carbing at room temperature at first (30psi for 48 hours), and when that didn't work I called the local brew shop and tried the suggested "chilled" method (12psi for 48 hours inside the keezer @37-41 degrees). Before any jabs at his advice are made though, the fact that I needed 2 kegs carbed in two days was a necessity at the time, as I had a camping trip to bring the brews to. The tasting the night before went decent, but after the relatively smooth transport to the campsite 2 1/2 hours away, they both seemed pretty flat. Perhaps I missed something in his advice? Perhaps shaking or something.

Either way, this week I'll be able to build the collar, fit 4 kegs in at once, and be able to run a gas line into the keezer from the outside of the unit (which from what I understand is the best combination).

 

[TheMan]

I've yet to build the collar for the keezer, as I just recently bought the chest freezer and temperature controller two weeks ago and set it up then. I actually just went out to buy the collar materials today, and later this week will add that in and buy the lines/splitters I'll need to hopefully end up with a 4 keg setup in the keezer with dual pressures for carbing and serving.

Long story short though, I tried carbing at room temperature at first (30psi for 48 hours), and when that didn't work I called the local brew shop and tried the suggested "chilled" method (12psi for 48 hours inside the keezer @37-41 degrees). Before any jabs at his advice are made though, the fact that I needed 2 kegs carbed in two days was a necessity at the time, as I had a camping trip to bring the brews to. The tasting the night before went decent, but after the relatively smooth transport to the campsite 2 1/2 hours away, they both seemed pretty flat. Perhaps I missed something in his advice? Perhaps shaking or something.

Either way, this week I'll be able to build the collar, fit 4 kegs in at once, and be able to run a gas line into the keezer from the outside of the unit (which from what I understand is the best combination).

12 PSI for 48 hours? That will do nothing (even at cold temps). That's why it was flat. If you set to 12 PSI you will need to leave it for a week before it is carbed. LHBS gave you terrible advice. Next time go with 30 PSI at serving temp for 2 days and it should be very close to carbed.

Also, be sure you don't mistake foam for carbonation. I am guessing it had a nice head, which can happen even if not carbed. Running bubbles after pouring are the indication of carbonation.