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Tanagra

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 22, 2010
Messages
52
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Location
Shelby Township
Good Evening Fellow Brewers!

For over a decade I have been brewing on a Natural Gas free-standing Frigidaire Range equipped with a power burner (I think 16k or 18k BTU output, but certainly not more). I *never* had a problem getting SUPER aggressive boils with 7+ gallons of wort - even at the burner's 'medium-high' setting. The hot/cold break was absolutely massive and I was able to leave it behind when transferring to my fermenter. I no longer have the model number of that range because I moved several months ago...

The new home has a full kitchen in the basement that I have finally, after several months of settling into the new home, turned into the new 'brewery'. I scorched the side of my Formica countertop in the old house because of poor kettle placement, so I opted for a 'drop-in' cooktop since I found several with high output center power burners instead of a large power burner placed in the corner. I installed a nice variable speed 900CFM(max) hood vent and am ready to get back to the hobby I love!

After installing the new cooktop the other day (with a 17k BTU center burner), I am able to bring my usual 6.75 gallons to a LIGHT, RUMBLING boil, but it is nowhere near as aggressive as the stove I was using previously - there was virtually NO break material when I transferred the cool wort to the fermenter, a big whirpooled hop-cone in the center was all that remained. I ran out the next day and purchased a cooktop with a 20k BTU center burner and installed it this morning, but it does not show much improvement. I put the lid on and was able to get an acceptable boil, but once I removed the lid the boil quickly calmed down to a mere simmer. So now I have two RATHER expensive cooktops that will not function for the only purpose they were purchased. :mad:

I am struggling to understand HOW in the world I was able to boil so vigorously on my old range... They both connected to 1/2" pipes I am beginning to think that perhaps there was no regulator on the freestanding range at my old house or that something is wrong with the gas pressure at my new house (both new cooktops came with their own regulators, and I installed them as instructed).

Unless I can greatly improve my boil performance, I am contemplating adding a HOTROD 1500 watt electric heat element to my kettle during the boil to aid in obtaining a more aggressive boil...

Any Thought/Ideas Anyone??
 
How weak is the boil? You don't need to get a volcanic aggressive boil. It just needs to be a rolling boil. The heat stick should do the trick if needed.
 
Good Evening Fellow Brewers!

For over a decade I have been brewing on a Natural Gas free-standing Frigidaire Range equipped with a power burner (I think 16k or 18k BTU output, but certainly not more). I *never* had a problem getting SUPER aggressive boils with 7+ gallons of wort - even at the burner's 'medium-high' setting. The hot/cold break was absolutely massive and I was able to leave it behind when transferring to my fermenter. I no longer have the model number of that range because I moved several months ago...

The new home has a full kitchen in the basement that I have finally, after several months of settling into the new home, turned into the new 'brewery'. I scorched the side of my Formica countertop in the old house because of poor kettle placement, so I opted for a 'drop-in' cooktop since I found several with high output center power burners instead of a large power burner placed in the corner. I installed a nice variable speed 900CFM(max) hood vent and am ready to get back to the hobby I love!

After installing the new cooktop the other day (with a 17k BTU center burner), I am able to bring my usual 6.75 gallons to a LIGHT, RUMBLING boil, but it is nowhere near as aggressive as the stove I was using previously - there was virtually NO break material when I transferred the cool wort to the fermenter, a big whirpooled hop-cone in the center was all that remained. I ran out the next day and purchased a cooktop with a 20k BTU center burner and installed it this morning, but it does not show much improvement. I put the lid on and was able to get an acceptable boil, but once I removed the lid the boil quickly calmed down to a mere simmer. So now I have two RATHER expensive cooktops that will not function for the only purpose they were purchased. :mad:

I am struggling to understand HOW in the world I was able to boil so vigorously on my old range... They both connected to 1/2" pipes I am beginning to think that perhaps there was no regulator on the freestanding range at my old house or that something is wrong with the gas pressure at my new house (both new cooktops came with their own regulators, and I installed them as instructed).

Unless I can greatly improve my boil performance, I am contemplating adding a HOTROD 1500 watt electric heat element to my kettle during the boil to aid in obtaining a more aggressive boil...

Any Thought/Ideas Anyone??

Get the heat stick anyways. Once you get the boil going the heat stick will probably keep it going without gas. No need for controller either because at 1500w, you want full juice all of the time. Sorry cant answer other question but my friend spreads his pot across multiple burners, maybe that could work for you too.
 
My suggestion is to re-read (or read for the first time) the installation manual. Could be that the regulator was provided for propane installation only and is not necessary for natural gas use.
 
Thank you all for the replies...

To answer some questions -

- If there was something else on that line (laundry/furnace/pool heater), it was not running while I was brewing or testing the gas.

- I have some quick videos of the boil but am not sure how to post them (is there a website that I can upload the videos to and link here?) The boil IS actually moving at the surface and large-ish bubbles come up from the bottom, but it is not the strong, 'HOT-BREAK-PRODUCING' kind of boil I am used to, and when transferring to the fermenter, there is no break to speak of left behind (meaning this hot break stuff I normally leave behind in my boil kettle is now in my fermenter!). :mad:

- The house is rigged with Natural Gas, the only propane I have are 20lb tanks for the outside BBQ grill. I prefer (insist) to brew indoors as Michigan weather is rarely cooperative for 4-6 consecutive hours on any given day.

- The instructions (for both cooktop models) are clear that when installing for natural gas, the regulator supplied must be installed inline between the black pipe and the cooktop - either directly before the cooktop itself or attached to an 'unbent' nipple directly before the cooktop.

- I tried using multiple burners (on both models), but trying to utilize the smaller burners moves the kettle considerably off-center to the large center power-burner. So much so, that I am actually losing more energy than I am gaining.

- I even tried changing out some orifices with slightly larger ones to gain BTUs but the new mixtures don't quite produce the perfect blue flame that is safe enough for indoor use. My CO monitor was beginning to climb so I reverted them to original configuration.

All in all, I am stumped.

FWIW I did some boil testing this morning and found that I am getting JUST under 1 gallon per hour evaporation rate on my full volume boils (6.75gal to 5.85gal)...
 
Just spitballing, maybe the regulator is set improperly based on actual water column of gas provided.

I like this idea... I was wondering if perhaps the pressure at the old house was different than the new one. Is there a way for me to test? Do I need to call a plumber?
 
I like this idea... I was wondering if perhaps the pressure at the old house was different than the new one. Is there a way for me to test? Do I need to call a plumber?

The instrument is called a manometer. I've never used one so I am unsure what is entailed to connect, or how much they cost vs quality.

I'd bet a call to the gas company could get it sorted. If nothing else, it could give you a baseline of what to expect.
 
I have wanted to wrap my pot in that reflectix stuff, I think it could help you to. If I remember correctly I've seen a lot of people who have trouble with boils using that stuff to help them. Here in Colorado the boil temp is lower and I have heard people struggle with stoves elsewhere. Thats why the burners are the gold standard. They are cheap and they work.

Some other ideas are to get a big induction hot plate as they're fairly cheap.

Get the hot rod?

Use a real burner? Not sure what would be required to vent it
 
The gas company can check pressures at the meter and if they are low replacing the meter is their responsibility. There are also options for a little higher pressure meter but the other gas appliance will need their own regulators checked/replaced as needed.
 
Are you using the same kettle that you used on your previous stove?

An aluminum pot will transfer more heat to the wort and may boil more vigorously.

Amount of break will vary with different grains as well.
 
Yes, I am using all of the same equipment and procedures that I used at the old house - to a TEE.

I brewed a German Pils yesterday and again could not get the boil hard enough to produce any hot-break at all. I was only able to boil off ~ 0.8gal/hour so again I missed my OG by 5 points (I tried to compensate by prolonging the late hop additions but did not want the hops to over-bitter). I must comment however, that prior to pitching, the wort was one of the cleanest, and best smelling/tasting I had ever made... We'll see what the end-result is like in a couple months...

My HotRod from brewhardware came in today and I am going to use it tonight in conjunction with my stove to get new boil-off rates prior to my next brewday on Saturday - I do have a couple of questions though since I have never used electricity for boiling purposes...

1 - Do I have to worry about scorching the wort? I intend to use the heat element during the 60-90 minute boil ONLY. I have read some threads that suggest moving the wort around to prevent scorching... If I bring my wort to a 'simmer' with the gas stove before adding the heat-stick, will that be enough movement to prevent scorching? (I bought the 1500w 120v version).

2 - Do I have to keep my pellet hops in a bag when using the element to prevent them from coming into contact with the heat element during the boil? I normally allow hops to boil free and then whirlpool at the end of my boil before transferring.

Thanks again for all the replies!
 
... much better. I am able to boil quite vigorously and am achieving a boil-off rate of almost exactly 1.5gal/hour (it is actually a little more).

I am using the natural gas wide open in conjunction with the 1500 watt element - will just have to watch for boil-overs.

Very excited to brew this weekend and see if my hot-break returns, but concerned about scorching...

https://youtu.be/fSUYPP3yaH0

... more to follow!
 
What does the flame look like under the pot? What is the height of flame, does it touch the kettle, is it blue with a light blue center, are there any orange at the tips? Just like turkey fryers you can adjust the air to fuel mix.

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vUZtnzCCNHA[/ame]

Now if that doesn't work. Already been said but check the pressure of the gas. Second, check the regulator make sure it's a natural gas one and not propane. Third make sure nothing is in any of the lines. I can't tell you how many times I've put together a gas grill and found metal shavings in the burners, or piece of plastic in the feed line, or plastic in the ball valve. Any one of these could be blocking the flow. Then readjust the air to fuel until you get the heat/flame you desire.
 
I like this idea... I was wondering if perhaps the pressure at the old house was different than the new one. Is there a way for me to test? Do I need to call a plumber?

here in NY the gas company would need to do the test. I'd call your utility. If you have an unexpected drop they should need to adjust it... At least I would think so.
 

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