From Wa to Az water issues

[Fractional]

so i just moved to Gilbert Az from Seattle Wa 3 weeks ago i finally got my stuff unpacked and i am concerned about the water.( if you have ever drank az water you know what im talking about) How do others in the area( or out of the
area ) take care of the water issue. any advice? should i just go buy an ro filter for the garage and call it good?

thanks for any help.

here is the water report i found for 2013
http://www.gilbertaz.gov/home/showdocument?id=4578

before you say go look at the sticky( in brew science). im doing that now. just wanted other peoples opinion.

 

[PlinyTheMiddleAged]

Fractional,

From what I understand, you are going from some pretty nice water (blank slate - nearly RO) to some fairly hard water (although the linked water report has absolutely zero useful brewing related information that I saw). I have fairly hard tap water as well as I am in Southern California. I deal with my water by purchasing distilled water, using the Bru'n Water spreadsheet, and adding salts such as calcium chloride, gypsum, and Epsom salt to approximate the desired water profile.

The above is a little intimidating when you first start down that path, but after one or two sessions, it is pretty straightforward. I also suggest getting and using a pH meter (but I'd recommend this regardless of your water source) and a good digital scale with decent resolution.

Good luck!

 

[mabrungard]

Unfortunately, that report is useless for brewing. You will need to call the utility's water quality lab and ask for their Secondary Parameters or send a sample to a lab.

 

[Fractional]

thats probably why i was confused on that report. thanks for that spread sheet. i also called the water company to see if they had a more detailed report.

i did find this one for phx in 2010

pH................................................ . 7.9
Total Dissolved Solids (TDS) Est..........792
Electrical Conductivity, mmho/cm........1.32
Cations / Anions, me/L.................... 2.2 / 12.6

------------------------------------------ppm
Sodium, Na............................................185
Potassium,........................................ .... K 6
Calcium, Ca............................................ 55
Magnesium, Mg...................................... 15
Total Hardness, CaCO 3........................ 200
Nitrate, NO 3-N.................................. 0.1 (SAFE)
Sulfate, SO -4S....................................... 41
Chloride, Cl............................................ 281
Carbonate, CO 3................................... < 1
Bicarbonate, HCO 3............................... 125
Total Alkalinity, CaCO 3......................... 102
Floride, F............................................... 0.94
Total Iron, Fe........................................ 0.03

"<" - Not Detected / Below Detection

 

[PlinyTheMiddleAged]

Just glancing through your last post, it looks like your sodium and your chloride are REALLY high. I'm not sure what the "line-in-the-sand" is with respect to alkalinity - that is at what point do you just give up on your tap water and use distilled or RO, but you're probably pretty close to it.

I suggest taking a look at Bru'n Water - plug in the above data, select a target profile, and see how far you have to dilute your tap water to approach something useable. Unfortunately, I'm guessing you'll end up with something approaching 100% distilled. But it is somewhat of a function as to what you want to brew - hence the need to select a target profile.

 

[mabrungard]

Well! I guess that is why they call it the Salt River. It must flow through some rock salt formations. That water is pretty salty with high sodium, chloride, and somewhat high sulfate. It would make brewing without a minerally taste, difficult. Dilution should be considered strongly.

 

[Fractional]

thanks guys. i think ill just tell the swmbo that the garage requires an RO filter. for some made up reason. like the pipes will calcify because they are different from the rest of the house. hopefully she'll buy that. ( she wont).

 

[bob1852]

Also keep in mind that your water is likely going to be coming from different sources at different time of year....

Salt River, Verde River, CAP canal, groundwater, and mix of all of them are going to have vastly different chemistry.

 

[GotPushrods]

Also keep in mind that your water is likely going to be coming from different sources at different time of year....

Salt River, Verde River, CAP canal, groundwater, and mix of all of them are going to have vastly different chemistry.

This is almost as bad as the high alkalinity (and pretty much everything) to start with. You could use a hardness and alkalinity test kit and try to SWAG the ratios of other ion from those, but it's a major PITA (due to source variation) and you're left diluting anyway. If you're already using 12 gallons of RO water, just use 15 and start with a blank slate.

I have an RO system mounted in the garage, run to a HDPE barrel with a float switch. For about 200 bucks you can be totally self sufficient.

We are also lucky to have water machines on every corner. The Circle K down the street has VERY good RO water (4 TDS) for 20 cents a gallon.

Whatever you decide, I feel your pain. I've been in the valley for almost 8 years and don't think I've had more than 1 sip of tap water. It's perfectly safe, but absolutely disgusting. At first I thought restaurants were serving me their RO brine, only to quickly realize it ALL tastes like that. And I don't know who they think they're fooling with the lemon. Lemon chalk is as bad as chalk.

RIP to your old water. What were you thinking? You decided on the move during winter too, didn't you?

 

[Fractional]

gotpushrods. it was decided at the end of may to move here. and it was a job transfer for the wife( amazon) and me it was a school transfer... i guess im hitting up the circle k until i install an ro unit in the garage!

 

[CeeTee]

Welcome to Gilbert! I also live here... Yes, the water changes sources throughout the year, and for that reason, among others, I don't use it. personally, I go and buy a few 5 gallons jugs full of water from the water and ice shop and call it a day. I do use gypsum on occassion, depending on style.

Once again, welcome! Brewing in the summer is brutal unless you have an AC/finished brew room.

 

[Wolfbrau]

I can't give you specific advice, however, I can say that the companies that fill those 5 gallon water coolers are very consistent. I have always thought that if I moved from my current, admittedly spoiled, brewing water situation, I would go to a commercial large volume water provider and get a report from them.

Another option is to just build your water from distilled. That method is quite effective at winning brewing awards, to my surprise.

 

[RachmaelBenApplebaum]

Not all water in AZ is bad, just the Phoenix GMA (that's greater metropolitan area, since differentiating between cities doesn't matter). Yes it tastes like balls, even out of the filtered tap, I can't even stand brushing my teeth with it when I visit. I'd go RO and brewing salts.

 

[pogden]

What the other Phoenix-area guys said. I buy RO water from a water store in Paradise Valley, and I sometimes throw in a bit of gypsum (recommended by my LHBS) and have never been disappointed with the results.

I am at the stage in my brewing career where I'm starting to think about water quality. I recently bought a pH meter and will try some simple (but measured) adjustments next time I brew. Looking forward to giving Bru'n Water a try - see if I can get my wife's eyes to roll

BTW, I often think about getting an RO system, but I can buy a lot of water-store water for the cost, and I'm not sure I need any more filters to forget to change. But the idea of having 200 gallons of RO water ready to go is certainly appealing.