probably not fermentation. i suspect you're releasing CO2, because the nibs are providing nucleation points. wait another few days and see if your gravity is in fact falling.
Clone Beer Founder's Breakfast Stout Clone
- Thread starter DubbelDach
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Mines at 1.030 from 1.110, took it out of the swamp cooler today. Seems to be gaining a few points yet. I definitely think it's a good candidate for aging on oak.
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jeff62217
Well-Known Member
Brewed this recipe today, missed the og by 4 points, I came in at 1.082. Pretty happy with my brewhouse efficiency though being around 68% for a 20lb grain bill... I'm usually around 10% less for that size grist.
Got it down close to 1.020 so we're inching up on 12%. Excited for this "special" batch and I'll also be brewing the original soon to have ready for Christmas.
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wobrien
Well-Known Member
What do you guys think about the difference between the simple and alternate formulas for calculating ABV?
Using Helly's numbers (1.110 - 1.020) I get 11.81% (simple) or 13.23% (alternate). Pretty big difference IMO.
Using Helly's numbers (1.110 - 1.020) I get 11.81% (simple) or 13.23% (alternate). Pretty big difference IMO.
Do you really care that much? Are you going to sell it? As anal as I am about a lot of things, I just don't get hung up on the numbers. At that high of an ABV level, a +/- 1.5% ABV difference wouldn't worry me at all.
wobrien
Well-Known Member
Ok, so you don't care, got it. I do and figured that others do as well and was curious whether people think the alternate formula really is more accurate. Since we go through so much work to clone a specific beer, it would seem reasonable to try and get to the same ABV as the commercial beer you are cloning, no?
Edit: and I'm surprised by your reaction considering the minute details you've discussed in the HT cloning thread too
Sorry if I was flippant, but for me I just don't care too much about a few % on ABV. Especially for a big beer like that. Maybe 1-2% might be significant on a 5% beer, but not a 12% beer.
As for the HT clone, I still wasn't that concerned with all the details. I subbed out some ingredients for ones I could buy cheaper locally than paying more to get them online (despite almost everyone saying I had to have the Pearl malt). I also didn't sweat it too much that my pH was off by 0.1 unit. I was more concerned with nailing my process and I was happy with the result.
As for the HT clone, I still wasn't that concerned with all the details. I subbed out some ingredients for ones I could buy cheaper locally than paying more to get them online (despite almost everyone saying I had to have the Pearl malt). I also didn't sweat it too much that my pH was off by 0.1 unit. I was more concerned with nailing my process and I was happy with the result.
Sorry mtnagel, but Im very interested in this too. Ive delt for a long time my beers packed more of a punch than the number showed.
Wobrien, wht are the 2 methods o calculating ABV?
wobrien
Well-Known Member
Simple:
(OG-FG)*131.25
Alternate:
((76.08*(OG-FG)/(1.775-OG))*(FG/0.794)
Hope I typed it out correctly (tough to do on a phone). Anyway, from what I've read, the simple formula is accurate for average gravity beers, but becomes increasingly inaccurate as the gravity increases.
(OG-FG)*131.25
Alternate:
((76.08*(OG-FG)/(1.775-OG))*(FG/0.794)
Hope I typed it out correctly (tough to do on a phone). Anyway, from what I've read, the simple formula is accurate for average gravity beers, but becomes increasingly inaccurate as the gravity increases.
wobrien
Well-Known Member
in case anyone wants to play with these two formulas and compare the different results, i've thrown them into a G-spreadsheet:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1YH5i90A2aOdLfD3frAi6RtP46P5HqYlt8H-h4-MJXJg/edit?usp=sharing
I was using beersmith which must be the simple method. For me that was 'good enough'. Just so we're clear though, my 12% effort was a bit of a tangent not a clone attempt. I've done the OP recipe and it's fantastic but it's not 12%, I think it's more like 8%.
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Cadrian
Well-Known Member
I was inspired by this recipe and kinda tweeked it a little to my tastes. This is the results.
Breakfast Stout v2.0
Type: All Grain
Batch Size: 5.00 gal
Boil Size: 7.94 gal
Boil Time: 90 min
End of Boil Vol: 6.24 gal
Final Bottling Vol: 4.75 gal
Fermentation: Ale, Two Stage
6 lbs 8.0 oz Organic Pale Malt (2 Row) US
6 lbs 8.0 oz Pale Malt, Maris Otter
16.0 oz Organic Chocolate Malt
1 lbs Oats, Flaked
12.0 oz Organic Roasted Barley
9.0 oz De-Bittered Black Malt (Dingemans)
7.0 oz Organic Crystal 120, 2-Row, (Great Western)
1.50 oz Magnum [12.00 %] - Boil 60.0 min
1.00 oz Willamette [5.00 %] - Boil 30.0 min
1.00 Items Whirlfloc Tablet (Boil 10.0 mins) Fining 10 -
1.00 oz Willamette [5.00 %]
2.0 pkg Windsor Yeast (Lallemand #-) [23.66 ml] Yeast 12 -
8.00 oz Cocao nibs 6oz Peru and 2oz Nicaragua (Secondary 0.0 mins) Flavor 13 -
4.00 Cup Raleigh cold brew (Secondary 0.0 mins) Flavor 14 days
I missed my target mash by 1 degree at 156 and should have left it, but messed with it and it dropped to 152.
Beer has very big smooth coffee flavor rounded with chocolate finish, a little thin but makes it more drinkable in the long run. Also has nice silky mouthfeel. Only been a month in bottles, hoping it becomes more complex and I get a little caramel as it ages and the coffee takes a backseat, but still very tasty as is now.
Thanks for all the information from this thread.
Breakfast Stout v2.0
Type: All Grain
Batch Size: 5.00 gal
Boil Size: 7.94 gal
Boil Time: 90 min
End of Boil Vol: 6.24 gal
Final Bottling Vol: 4.75 gal
Fermentation: Ale, Two Stage
6 lbs 8.0 oz Organic Pale Malt (2 Row) US
6 lbs 8.0 oz Pale Malt, Maris Otter
16.0 oz Organic Chocolate Malt
1 lbs Oats, Flaked
12.0 oz Organic Roasted Barley
9.0 oz De-Bittered Black Malt (Dingemans)
7.0 oz Organic Crystal 120, 2-Row, (Great Western)
1.50 oz Magnum [12.00 %] - Boil 60.0 min
1.00 oz Willamette [5.00 %] - Boil 30.0 min
1.00 Items Whirlfloc Tablet (Boil 10.0 mins) Fining 10 -
1.00 oz Willamette [5.00 %]
2.0 pkg Windsor Yeast (Lallemand #-) [23.66 ml] Yeast 12 -
8.00 oz Cocao nibs 6oz Peru and 2oz Nicaragua (Secondary 0.0 mins) Flavor 13 -
4.00 Cup Raleigh cold brew (Secondary 0.0 mins) Flavor 14 days
I missed my target mash by 1 degree at 156 and should have left it, but messed with it and it dropped to 152.
Beer has very big smooth coffee flavor rounded with chocolate finish, a little thin but makes it more drinkable in the long run. Also has nice silky mouthfeel. Only been a month in bottles, hoping it becomes more complex and I get a little caramel as it ages and the coffee takes a backseat, but still very tasty as is now.
Thanks for all the information from this thread.
Mash problems - grain only cooled by wort by about 7 deg F instead of 12 (happened last time too). Mash 165 for ~1h, (run errand, realize) and cool to 160 @ 30 min (with added amylase enzyme)
*No coffee added*
OG= 1.080, pitch yeast around maybe 20C with controller set at 16C
Forget for 3 weeks
Taste - pretty damn good. FG = 1.012 (~9%?!?!)
Added 16 oz Chameleon brand ice coffee, prime with a touch over 2 vol (for a rougher pour and head) bottled in all 12 oz bottles because 9%
Tastes great flat, would guess best I have brewed (in terms of complex beer), cant tell for sure. Lots better than deception cream stout. Had good coffee flavor with that amount. I drank a full hydrometer sample without coffee and it had a real complex and pleasant array of tastes. Wife said she could smell alcohol, said her sip tasted good. To me, it tasted a bit like founders heavy scotch ale (not sure if that's just the similar ABV?). It was smooth enough to drink as is. Posting 24 long hours after sample...
Will update in ~3 more weeks.
Apart from that, highly recommend shipwreck saison but I wanted a bit more fruit/esters... guess I waited too long with temperature control on that one
*No coffee added*
OG= 1.080, pitch yeast around maybe 20C with controller set at 16C
Forget for 3 weeks
Taste - pretty damn good. FG = 1.012 (~9%?!?!)
Added 16 oz Chameleon brand ice coffee, prime with a touch over 2 vol (for a rougher pour and head) bottled in all 12 oz bottles because 9%
Tastes great flat, would guess best I have brewed (in terms of complex beer), cant tell for sure. Lots better than deception cream stout. Had good coffee flavor with that amount. I drank a full hydrometer sample without coffee and it had a real complex and pleasant array of tastes. Wife said she could smell alcohol, said her sip tasted good. To me, it tasted a bit like founders heavy scotch ale (not sure if that's just the similar ABV?). It was smooth enough to drink as is. Posting 24 long hours after sample...
Will update in ~3 more weeks.
Apart from that, highly recommend shipwreck saison but I wanted a bit more fruit/esters... guess I waited too long with temperature control on that one
On Saturday, I just brewed a reduced alcohol version of this. Instead of the 8.5 and 9% I got when I brewed this before, I should get around 6 or 6.5%. The plan is to secondary 3 gal per the recipe. The other 2 gal will get split up into 1 gal glass jars. I've been soaking oak chips in 100% grade B maple syrup for a couple weeks already. Half the chips will go in one; half in the other gallon. Depending on the maple flavor after sitting for a bit, I may add maple flavor to one or both. I'm looking for the hit you over the head wallop of Canadian breakfast stout on at least 1 gallon. I will probably prime the 1 gal batches with the syrup I drain off from the chips. I will keg the 3 gallons.
brewski09
Well-Known Member
Just curious, why soak oak in the maple instead of just adding maple syrup straight in?
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Maple syrup will ferment out leaving the beer drier and with more alcohol. For Founder's CBS, they aged the beer in barrels that previously had maple syrup, so I'm trying to mimic that. I'm hoping it will extract out the maple flavor, but leave the sugar behind. We'll see how it goes.
I want to make this tomorrow, but I don't have Kona or Sumatran coffee. I'm dubious that it will even make a real difference in the end. i suspect the subtle flavors will be overpowered by the roast grain flavors. I will probably just grab some dark roast coffee from the cupboard and call it good.
Hopefully I have the rest of the stuff and won't have to pick another recipe to brew for the Learn To Brew event we got going on.
Hopefully I have the rest of the stuff and won't have to pick another recipe to brew for the Learn To Brew event we got going on.
I'd say the coffee is the dominant flavor. With that said, I see no problem in using what you like. I've made this recipe 3 times and I think I used different coffee every time. The last time I happened to be near a store that has bulk coffee and I was able to buy small quantities of each, so I did use what the recipe calls for.
Am with the other dudes. Just use good coffee. I also had a local roaster's product in mine.
Do any of you guys have a Fresh Market near you (http://www.thefreshmarket.com/all-stores/)?
They have about 2 dozen bulk bins of coffee and they had both varieties I needed and I could buy only what I needed. They also had the chocolate I needed for this recipe.
They have about 2 dozen bulk bins of coffee and they had both varieties I needed and I could buy only what I needed. They also had the chocolate I needed for this recipe.
No Freshmarket around me. I'll look into finding Kona somewhere or otherwise just go with what is considered most comparable.
The recipe calls for "1.5 oz Unsweetened chocolate baking nibs at 15 mins."
I have organic raw cacao nibs. Are these the same thing?
The recipe calls for "1.5 oz Unsweetened chocolate baking nibs at 15 mins."
I have organic raw cacao nibs. Are these the same thing?
I would think so.
Your's are just fancier.
They are just what I ordered from by my LHBS, but if they do the trick that is great. I thought they might be the same thing but just trying to confirm now.
Got some bittersweet Baker's chocolate today and think I have everything I need now for next weekend.
Looking forward to this. First all grain stout.
Thanks. Will look into this so I use the right stuff. Thinking the cacao nibs might be more of a thing a person might use in a secondary when aging rather than the boil. Maybe not the correct thing for this recipe....
Hey there,
I have a question about my last 2 SG readings of 1.032 (readings were a week apart). I brewed 20 gallons of this and had a OG of 1.086. About 30 minutes into the mash the 155 temp dropped. This kicked on the pump to start recirculating through the herms but i failed to notice the temp in my hot liquor tank. It was too hot and bumped the mash to 157 for the last 30 minutes. I oxygenate with oxygen tank and diffuser stone. I added yeast nutrients for this batch and used 2 packs of S-04 to each 5 gallons. Could the last 30 minutes of 157 caused my FG to be this high? I'm not complaining, it tastes amazing already.
I have a question about my last 2 SG readings of 1.032 (readings were a week apart). I brewed 20 gallons of this and had a OG of 1.086. About 30 minutes into the mash the 155 temp dropped. This kicked on the pump to start recirculating through the herms but i failed to notice the temp in my hot liquor tank. It was too hot and bumped the mash to 157 for the last 30 minutes. I oxygenate with oxygen tank and diffuser stone. I added yeast nutrients for this batch and used 2 packs of S-04 to each 5 gallons. Could the last 30 minutes of 157 caused my FG to be this high? I'm not complaining, it tastes amazing already.
I've read that most of the conversion takes place in the first 15-30 minutes, so I wouldn't think a 2 degree increase in the final 30 mins would affect it that much. But I'm hardly an expert.
brewski09
Well-Known Member
2 degrees shouldn't have that much of an impact. I recently had s04 stall in me and had good luck with the Danstar dry cask and barrel aging yeast (made for 12-14% referment actions).
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Sure smelled great while you were brewing it on Saturday! Hope it turns out good for you.
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I have never bottled anything with that high a gravity before. I noticed some others finishing with a high FG, but not 1.032 high. If that's where it finishes then that's where it finishes, or is adding different yeast necessary to avoid bottle bombs?
Even at 4 weeks young the sample taste amazing.
Even at 4 weeks young the sample taste amazing.
Thanks! I eventually got the gravity I wanted after boiling and adding honey. They are bubbling away now. I should have pulled a sample to taste before pitching, but I forgot.
Hey, if you come to next month's meeting, remind me to bring some cinnamon mead. I'd be pleased if you could taste it and recommend any changes.
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