Foam, foam, foam..........

[WahineArt]

I've read every thread on foam I think.

I have added beer line length and am now at 12'. I have a hef in the keg and hef's require more carbonation so I set it at 20 psi but I back it off to 10 psi to serve. I don't think I'm over carb'ed because it tastes flat until the second glass (of mainly foam) and the fridge is at a constant 35 degrees.

What am I doing wrong? Could it be the beer? Could it be a mechanical issue with the tap? Could it just be me??

 

[Hoppopotomus]

I'm certainly no expert, but at 20 psi at 35 degrees.....I do believe you may be overcarbed sir. What kind of a setup do you have....besides the long beer lines. Is it a collar keezer, coffin keezer, tower tap system, etc? Even backing it down to 10 psi for serving won't solve your foaming issues if your overcarbed. More information please.

 

[WahineArt]

I have a Sanyo kegerator. I understand the over carb'ed issue but it's just hard for me to believe being that it tastes flat. I realize that a glass full of foam should probably taste flat but the second glass (after I dumped the first) tastes like it's carb'ed correctly (yup, it's a glass full of foam too but still tastes carb'ed). I'm almost down to a third of a keg left and I'm starting to think I should just bottle because I've lost a lot of beer just to experimenting.

 

[Dan]

How long did you force carb it?

Edit Great avatar!!

 

[JuanMoore]

I have a Sanyo kegerator. I understand the over carb'ed issue but it's just hard for me to believe being that it tastes flat. I realize that a glass full of foam should probably taste flat but the second glass (after I dumped the first) tastes like it's carb'ed correctly (yup, it's a glass full of foam too but still tastes carb'ed). I'm almost down to a third of a keg left and I'm starting to think I should just bottle because I've lost a lot of beer just to experimenting.

It seems counterintuitive, but it often tastes flat BECAUSE it's overcarbed. When it's more than a little overcarbed, the excess CO2 comes out of solution forcefully, taking a lot of the other carbonation out of solution with it, leaving you with a lot of foam and some flat beer. If you carbed using the set and forget method, it's probably not overcarbed though, since 20 psi at 35F is about right for a hefe (~3.5 vol).

My guess is it's two issues. The first is that the lines/shank/faucet in the tower aren't cooled well enough, which explains why the second glass tastes more carbed than the first. Is the third glass even better than the second? This is a common issue with tower set-ups, and you might need a small computer fan to blow cold air up into the tower, or some other solution. There are a lot of threads here with various tower cooling solutions.

The second issue is likely a line balancing issue or line restriction. What's the ID of your beer line? Have you tried pushing at even lower pressure than 10psi? A small blockage, kink in the line, or dirty faucet can also knock the CO2 out of solution.

 

[WahineArt]

Edit Great avatar!!

Thanks

I have been carbing it approx 2 weeks at 20 psi. According to the Tennessee Valley Homebrewers (insert dueling banjo's music here, hehe, jk!) a hef beer needs between 3.3 - 4.5 volume of CO2. I have to say that my beer does tast flat compared to my store bought wheat beer.

 

[WahineArt]

...My guess is it's two issues. The first is that the lines/shank/faucet in the tower aren't cooled well enough, which explains why the second glass tastes more carbed than the first. Is the third glass even better than the second? This is a common issue with tower set-ups, and you might need a small computer fan to blow cold air up into the tower, or some other solution. There are a lot of threads here with various tower cooling solutions.

The second issue is likely a line balancing issue or line restriction. What's the ID of your beer line? Have you tried pushing at even lower pressure than 10psi? A small blockage, kink in the line, or dirty faucet can also knock the CO2 out of solution.

I even dropped it down to 3 and got a beautiful white foamy froth!

I thought about the tower issue, and maybe I need to revisit it. I experimented tonight by leaving the door open for a pour or two (never got to a 3rd cuz frustration set in) to view how the beer runs thru the line and it seems foamy in the line (brand spanking new 12' line installed last night). Now, I remember I was able to get 2/3 of a beer without foam in the beggining (flat tasting though) so at one time it did work. I'm thinking now after reading your reply that maybe, since I've been all over the place with carb levels that it's become over carb'ed. I should've gone with 20 psi at 35 degrees from the git go.

 

[JuanMoore]

Foam in the line usually indicates overcarbing, but the large difference in pressure (from 20 down to 10 psi) could also be causing it. Does foam actively collect in the line when it's just sitting at 20 psi? To know for sure if that's it you'd have to balance the lines such that you could keep it at 20psi even for the pours. That would take some very long lines, or some of those epoxy mixer sticks in the diptube. The fact that the second pour has more carbonation proves that you need to cool your tower better, but that's likely only part of the problem.

 

[WahineArt]

No, the line is pretty clear I would say. Air gaps do occur but I figured it was just because of what foam that's left dissapates and becomes a CO2 bubble. I believe it start pouring clear and then becomes foam from the keg and stays that way thru the end of the pour, at least from my visual observation.

On a side note, I tried doing another trick other than the epoxy mixers. I inserted a 1/4" od line (1/8" id) into the entire length of the keg dip stick and maybe got even more foam than before (I have since taken it out with nearly the same results, a little less foamy maybe)

 

[Seven]

It sounds like it may be over-carbed. Check the force carbonation chart here for the correct regulator setting. It shows 11 to 24 PSI is within the range you need for a wheat beer, so maybe try carbing at 12-PSI instead of 20-PSI.

Search for other threads about fixing the over-carb issue with your current keg of wheat: I think you have to remove the gas line from the keg and pull the pressure-release valve to off gas it over the period of a day or so to drop the carbonation level, then hook the gas back up again at the correct pressure and try it again.

Good luck!

 

[subliminalurge]

I won't argue with those who say it's overcarbbed, it probably is, but....

Since your second glass tastes better then the first, I'd say your tower is not cooled enough. As the beer passes through the warm beer lines it will force co2 out of solution. I've fixed this exact problem for several people on their $800 kegerators that they use for serving 1/2 barrels of bud light.

Also, regardless of what the charts say, if you're foaming up then you're losing your carbonation, so it doesn't matter if you're over-, under- or dead-bang on with co2 volumes, if you foam up your beer will seem flat.

 

[Brewerforlife]

What's the diameter of your lines??? Are they vinyl or poly barrier???

 

[WahineArt]

The ID is 3/16" and they are vinyl

 

[WahineArt]

I dropped CO2 down to 10 lbs and released the keg's pressure and let it sit for 4 or 5 days. It pours with a nice head, still bigger than I would like but I'm not complaining, and it is nicely carbonated.

Now I am wondering, since it's a hefeweizen (and according to the charts requires more carbonation than say a lager) will it eventually go flat again because I have dropped the CO2 level? I'm assuming that the natural forces at work will want to balance out and CO2 will leave the beer because the kegs CO2 pressure has been decreased.

 

[Brewnoob1]

If you released the pressure and dropped the psi, then it sounds like overcarb'd was your issue all along.

 

[day_trippr]

I dropped CO2 down to 10 lbs and released the keg's pressure and let it sit for 4 or 5 days. It pours with a nice head, still bigger than I would like but I'm not complaining, and it is nicely carbonated.

Now I am wondering, since it's a hefeweizen (and according to the charts requires more carbonation than say a lager) will it eventually go flat again because I have dropped the CO2 level? I'm assuming that the natural forces at work will want to balance out and CO2 will leave the beer because the kegs CO2 pressure has been decreased.

Yes, "Equilibrium Happens".

Hefes carbed to style are a mean test of any serving setup. If a properly configured system is well tuned for less effervescent beers, a hefe may well pour with too much foam. It's still a matter of balancing restriction against carb level, but changing line lengths between kegs is a pita for pretty much everyone.

Which is where these epoxy mixers can be very helpful. Set up the system for the typical 2.5 volume brews, and drop a mixer down the Out diptube for the hefe keg, and enjoy perfect pours without changing lines...

Cheers!