Flanders Red - Dulle Griet

[flyangler18]

Thanks for the writeup, pitched a barely swolen pack of roeselare into a fairly high gravity flanders brown sunday around noon. Trying not to worry 35 hours into it, not even a blip on the top of the liquid. Your description of a slow starter has me still hopeful.

I know, I have read the 72 hour sticky but none of my 25-odd batches have taken this long

Mine really got going around the 4-5 day mark, if memory serves. How high of a gravity?

 

[s3n8]

It ended up around 1.088. I followed (for the most part) the recipe from Brewing Classic Styles Flanders Brown. Then I remembered that bottle of candi sugar syrup I had in the fridge, and I tossed that in as well. I have always had a hard time following directions, and I realize that I am going to be pushing the upper limits (11% according to Wyeast) if this attenuates like it should. Bottle carbing may be iffy.

It still shows no signs of fermentation. I am going to be within a couple miles of my "local" HBS tomorrow, so I can pick up some new bugs just in case its still doing its impression of stagnant pond water by then.

 

[flyangler18]

Yikes, that's definitely pushing it. A second pack might be in order.

 

[AnOldUR]

It ended up around 1.088. I followed (for the most part) the recipe from Brewing Classic Styles Flanders Brown.

Also went the Flanders Brown route with my Roeselare. Starting gravity was a lot lower (1.064), but it did take three days to start. Be interested to hear your results and if you do a second pitch.

 

[s3n8]

Ohnoes!

I just checked on my flanders to see if it might have taken off overnight. Well, its not fermenting, but something did take off. It has a hazy white (moldy?) layer covering the top of the liquid. At first it looked like the headspace was filled with fog, but upon closer inspection, the liquid is covered in hazy white stuff. Bummer.

 

[nealf]

That sounds like the beginning of a pellicle to me... isn't that what you were looking for?

 

[s3n8]

That sounds like the beginning of a pellicle to me... isn't that what you were looking for?

Well... Would be if I had seen some fermentation taking place prior to that.

It looks vaguely like a Pellicle, but no bubbles. I will try to snap a pic tomorrow. I got a new packet of Roeselare from the LHBS. Plan on pitching that and racking from underneath whatever is going on in there.

 

[nealf]

Roselare seems to work much slower than other brewing yeasts... I would hold off before repitching, definitely post up a picture

Don't be in any rush when you are working with sour beers.

 

[s3n8]

It was definitely mold, there were little round colonies forming on the side of the carboy. I did not get a picture, but if you have seen mold before, you have seen this. I picked up the last pack of roeselare blend at myLHBS, pitched that into a very clean and sanitized carboy, then racked most of the wort from under the mold... This pack actually swelled, manufacture date was 6/15, so I am hopeful this one will do its job.

 

[s3n8]

This morning the airlock was full and there was krausen running down the side of the carboy. Went from dead to blowing off overnight. Stuck the blowoff into a little bucket of starsan. Hope the mold didnt contribute anything too bad. Thanks for all the advice guys.

 

[s3n8]

I racked this beast to secondary today, SG was 1.040. Krausen dropped 3 days after taking off, and I wanted to get it into secondary prior to a pellicle forming, and to get it in something with a little less headspace. Just curious if the gravity is typical 3 weeks in, I know the lacto and other bugs take a while to get going and are slow workers. There is definitely a pronounced sourness and a funky-not-altogether-pleasant smell.

 

[flyangler18]

To add some deeper complexity to my Flanders Red, I just added the dregs from bottles of both Rodenbach Grand Cru and Ommegang's Biere de Mars to the secondary.

 

[scinerd3000]

how much oak cube did you end up adding or did you soley go with the oak peg? And how was the Biere de Mars. I had been wanting to try that so now im curious

 

[flyangler18]

how much oak cube did you end up adding or did you soley go with the oak peg? And how was the Biere de Mars. I had been wanting to try that so now im curious

1 oz medium toast, plus the peg. Biere de Mars is awesome - delicious Bretty flavor dominates.

 

[Tonedef131]

To add some deeper complexity to my Flanders Red, I just added the dregs from bottles of both Rodenbach Grand Cru and Ommegang's Biere de Mars to the secondary.

You think there is enough viability in these to make a noticeable effect? We are doing a small Flanders Red tasting in a month or so with I believe ten examples of the style. Since no one else attending has a Flanders Red in the works I called dibs on the dregs from all the bottles. I figure I will put them all in one bottle, cap it, then go home and dump them in the barrel. But the more I think about it I'm wondering if the bugs in there really stand a chance against the already established critters from the multiple Roeselare packs I pitched. You think it's worth the trouble?

I am most excited because we have a bottle of Rodenbach Vin de Cereale, and if those bugs are still alive and can take hold inside my barrel I would be ecstatic.

 

[flyangler18]

You think there is enough viability in these to make a noticeable effect? We are doing a small Flanders Red tasting in a month or so with I believe ten examples of the style.

Oldsock's comment early in this thread suggests it has been successful for him in the past!

I am most excited because we have a bottle of Rodenbach Vin de Cereale, and if those bugs are still alive and can take hold inside my barrel I would be ecstatic.

Lucky bastard.

 

[womencantsail]

Everything I've read and been told (from people's experiences) says that the dregs are the way to go. I've got a wild ale going and I've pitched dregs from RR Conescration, RR Temptation, NB La Folie, Jolly Pumpkin La Roja, and Lindemans Cuvee Rene, along with a vial of Brett C. It's only been a week so far, so I haven't bothered to taste it yet, but I've been (almost) assured that this will give me a good result.

 

[Tonedef131]

Alright then, I will be dumping the dregs in. I will probably start keeping lambic dregs for my lambic too then. I just went to Jolly Pumpkin and have some fresh bottles I could throw in these beers. As a matter of fact I think I will put the dregs of my NG Golden Ale in my Orval type beers tonight!

 

[dreadnatty08]

Oldsock's comment early in this thread suggests it has been successful for him in the past!

All the info I've read suggests that Rodenbach is filtered:
Rodenbach Grand Cru
Brew Your Own: The How-To Homebrew Beer Magazine - Beer Styles - Oud Bruin: Style of the Month

The bottle I had a month ago was pretty clear all the way to the bottom without any notice of dregs.

 

[ryane]

Oldsock's comment early in this thread suggests it has been successful for him in the past!

All the info I've read suggests that Rodenbach is filtered:
Rodenbach Grand Cru
Brew Your Own: The How-To Homebrew Beer Magazine - Beer Styles - Oud Bruin: Style of the Month

The bottle I had a month ago was pretty clear all the way to the bottom without any notice of dregs.

Yup, duchesse is filtered as well, even the large bottles

 

[Tonedef131]

What about La Folie? Is that filtered or could I harvest anything living from that?

 

[flyangler18]

Latest pics, Dulle Griet and Brett'd Old Ale. Forgive iPhone quality.

 

[AnOldUR]

Latest pics, Dulle Griet and Brett'd Old Ale. Forgive iPhone quality.

You made me go down to the basement to check on my Flanders Brown. I have floating islands that have the same color and appearance as yours, but damn, not nearly as impressive at that. Very nice!

 

[flyangler18]

It is stunning, isn't it?

 

[JoMarky]

How bouts a 9-month update??

 

[scinerd3000]

nice pellical. How long did that take to form fully?

 

[flyangler18]

Got curious and pulled a quick sample for, you know, evaluation. This sucka is going to be glorious! A soft Brett character in the nose, followed by the complex sour/sweet balsamic-type flavors I drool over in the style. Still quite young but showing hints of what it will become with more age.

Pellicle took around 2 months to fully form, IIRC.

 

[s3n8]

Does the pellicle ever fall like krausen? Mine seems to have perked up a bit since the basement is warming up. The pellicle was pretty much gone over the last couple months, and seems to have reformed in the last couple weeks. I originally planned to let this one sit 18 months or so, coming up on 12. I am afraid to poke the thief through the pellicle to even try it. Smells sour though.

 

[HokieBrewer]

If I understand correctly, the presence of a pellicle is only a response to contact with oxygen.

 

[flyangler18]

Does the pellicle ever fall like krausen? Mine seems to have perked up a bit since the basement is warming up. The pellicle was pretty much gone over the last couple months, and seems to have reformed in the last couple weeks. I originally planned to let this one sit 18 months or so, coming up on 12. I am afraid to poke the thief through the pellicle to even try it. Smells sour though.

In theory, the pellicle will fall though the only thing that it shows is the presence of oxygen (which you need to sufficiently develop the acetic notes crucial to this style. Too much oxygen and it can become undrinkable without blending. Poke through the pellicle and draw a sample. Don't be surprised if the taste isn't as sour as the nose suggests - that will develop with tiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiime and lots of it.

Mine has been in secondary for just over 12 months now (racked 5/1/09) and the last sample I drew (around two months ago) was extremely promising.

 

[Hugh_Jass]

Any feedback with this one? I'm thinking of attempting this style and would like some feed back. Have you tried a sample of the finished product? Any insight would be appreciated.

Best.

 

[flyangler18]

Any feedback with this one? I'm thinking of attempting this style and would like some feed back. Have you tried a sample of the finished product? Any insight would be appreciated.

Best.

This original batch is still in secondary; it's eclipsed the one-year mark and is developing nicely with lots of complexity. The key is to allow plenty of time. This is hardly a style for the impatient.

 

[Hugh_Jass]

This original batch is still in secondary; it's eclipsed the one-year mark and is developing nicely with lots of complexity. The key is to allow plenty of time. This is hardly a style for the impatient.

Brewing is teaching me patience.

At this point, would you change anything given the samplings you've tasted?

 

[Hugh_Jass]

Purchased the ingredients and am brewing "Mad Meg" this weekend.

 

[flyangler18]

Purchased the ingredients and am brewing "Mad Meg" this weekend.

Excellent! You asked earlier about what I would change? Aging in a barrel.

 

[Hugh_Jass]

I've a 19L barrel purchased as part of the Sacc/Infidel group buy. It's a bourbon barrel. I was thinking of pouring a port or cab into it in an attempt to cut some of the bourbon flavor. Think this would work or should I just add toasted oak chips and keep the barrel for other projects?

 

[flyangler18]

When I prepped my own blue corn whisky barrel (from Sacc/Infidel as well) for buggy brews, I first brewed an English barleywine and racked into the barrel to pull as much heavy oak and whisky character out as I could so as not to overpower the Flanders. The English barleywine spent 3 weeks in the barrel, then I racked the Flanders in. It's still there.

Of course, this barrel is now reserved for buggy brews only now, so if you want to get some non-sour use out of it first, keep the Flanders for very last.

 

[Hugh_Jass]

When I prepped my own blue corn whisky barrel (from Sacc/Infidel as well) for buggy brews, I first brewed an English barleywine and racked into the barrel to pull as much heavy oak and whisky character out as I could so as not to overpower the Flanders. The English barleywine spent 3 weeks in the barrel, then I racked the Flanders in. It's still there.

Of course, this barrel is now reserved for buggy brews only now, so if you want to get some non-sour use out of it first, keep the Flanders for very last.

There's been a RIS followed by a porter with 65% Bamberg smoke malt. The barrel is sitting empty now. I'm thinking of adding a red wine to further condition it. Think the red wine would make a difference or should I just rack into the barrel as is?

Thanks for your help. I've jacked your thread enough. If I've any other questions, I'll start my own thread

 

[Stratotankard]

I brewed this last September (09), and have been patiently waiting on it. I am a bit concerned that I still have not seen a pellicle. I have steadily been adding the dregs of just about every sour I drink (living in Arkansas, the selection is pretty limited). The malt/hop character is just about what I was hoping and there is a slight acetic nose, but the sample I pulled has very little sourness to it at all. Maybe I'm being too impatient, but I would have expected there to be more sourness to it by now.

An online gaming friend from Belgium laughed at me when I named a ship Dulle Griet. She claimed that I had just called myself "Lazy Girl", and what I probably meant was Dolle Griet or "Crazy Woman. I googled and found the painting on the first page is called Dulle Griet, but translator thinks Dolle is correct. Either way, great recipe!

 

[Hookstrat]

I was inspired by this recipe last winter and brewed up a batch.

My Roselare packets were old (out of season) so I pitched 2 in a 5 gallon batch.

It's been 8 months and I never really saw a pellicle, but I finally tasted some yesterday and it was beautiful. I wanted to pull another sample, but resisted.

Tasted about as close to Jolly Pumpkin's La Roja as I could have hoped, maybe slightly less complex but definitely sour, funky and no off flavors.

So should I bottle it up now and capture the deliciousness, or wait the full 12-18 months. I just can't see it getting much better. Any suggestions?