First two batches have sour smell/taste

[pj-]

I've brewed two one gallon extract kits from NB with their one gallon starter kit. The first was their pumpkin beer. I followed the instructions during brewing and put it in the basement to do its thing. On day 2, the krausen clogged up the airlock and partially dislodged it from the plastic top, probably due to the late summer heat which had ambient temps in the low/mid 70s. I replaced it with a blowoff tube and noticed the beer had a strong banana smell. I don't have a hydrometer so I just used the instruction's two week suggestion for when to bottle. At this time the sour smell was pretty apparent.

I sanitized (or I guess "cleansed", since I am using the included no rinse cleanser) everything and left the carboy full of sanitizer solution for a couple hours, and then started the second beer, the Radical Red. This time the ambient temps were in the upper 60s and I also used a swamp cooler to hopefully keep things in check. There was no blowoff and the fermenter smelled amazing for the first few days.

Fast forward two weeks to today, I've tried 2 of the pumpkin beers which both had the sour smell/taste (though it seems milder today than it did a week ago when I tried the first one) and I just bottled the Radical Red which had the same sour smell.

Is this just an infection from the first beer that I failed to full neutralize before starting the second? I didn't notice and weird/gross stuff floating in the fermenter for either batch. The pumpkin beer isn't good but it's drinkable, though it doesn't have much beer taste and the pumpkin pie spice may be covering up some of the unpleasantness. I use NYC tap water which tastes fine to me.

I'd like to get this figured out before I start batch 3

 

[BigMack]

Do you happen to remember what yeast you used on both of these batches? Many yeasts can kick off some off flavors at temps in the low/mid 70's. You may have some esters/phenols that are giving you banana among other flavors and aromas.

If you can provide a little more information on the recipes as well as your brewing and fermenting process it should be fairly easy to narrow down the potential causes of the off flavors.

 

[Sammy86]

From looking at the instructions at NB I would definitely recommend getting yourself some Star San. Cleanser and sanitizer I don't believe are the same thing so better to be safe then sorry.

Secondly, i would get some PBW or Oxyclean (with no scent) and hit that fermentor with a good soaking and then cleaning.

Hope this helps!

 

[pj-]

Do you happen to remember what yeast you used on both of these batches? Many yeasts can kick off some off flavors at temps in the low/mid 70's. You may have some esters/phenols that are giving you banana among other flavors and aromas.

If you can provide a little more information on the recipes as well as your brewing and fermenting process it should be fairly easy to narrow down the potential causes of the off flavors.

Both recipes included a packet of safale us-05. They both had a bag of specialty grains that I steeped for 10 mins as the water was heating up. I'm not sure the temps but I started steeping as soon as I turned the flame on so it was probably 70-100F. For the pumpkin I added the whole 1.5lb LME at the beginning of the boil, which I read is unnecessary so with the second batch I did 25% at the beginning and the rest a few mins before flame out. For cooling I do an ice bath in my sink, with the pot's lid on, to roughly room temperature.

For both batches I followed the instructions and pitched about half of the yeast packet directly on top of the aerated wort, then filled the airlock with cleanser solution and put it in the top of the fermenter. The first batch fermented for two weeks in the basement of my building, and I'm pretty sure it was too warm since we had some late summer heat the first week. The second batch I put in a closet in my apartment and for the first 4 days I used a swamp cooler of cleanser solution in a plastic bin with a tshirt wrapped around the fermenter. After that it spent 10 days on the floor of the closet with ambient temps of about 68-72.

From looking at the instructions at NB I would definitely recommend getting yourself some Star San. Cleanser and sanitizer I don't believe are the same thing so better to be safe then sorry.

Secondly, i would get some PBW or Oxyclean (with no scent) and hit that fermentor with a good soaking and then cleaning.

Hope this helps!

I just got a bottle of starsan, and I will definitely get some oxyclean to make that fermenter a barren wasteland before my next batch!

 

[ElJefeBrews]

Sour sounds like a bacteria fermentation. This could definitely be the cause if you didn't sanitize.

Is there any plastic/band-aid like smell? If there is its caused by unfiltered tap water that contains chlorine/chloramines. Getting a carbon filter or using reverse osmosis water will solve that problem.

 

[ElJefeBrews]

***CORRECTION--- carbon filters remove chlorine. If you have chloramines you'll need to use campden tablets

 

[BrewingTravisty]

Both recipes included a packet of safale us-05. They both had a bag of specialty grains that I steeped for 10 mins as the water was heating up. I'm not sure the temps but I started steeping as soon as I turned the flame on so it was probably 70-100F. For the pumpkin I added the whole 1.5lb LME at the beginning of the boil, which I read is unnecessary so with the second batch I did 25% at the beginning and the rest a few mins before flame out. For cooling I do an ice bath in my sink, with the pot's lid on, to roughly room temperature.

For both batches I followed the instructions and pitched about half of the yeast packet directly on top of the aerated wort, then filled the airlock with cleanser solution and put it in the top of the fermenter. The first batch fermented for two weeks in the basement of my building, and I'm pretty sure it was too warm since we had some late summer heat the first week. The second batch I put in a closet in my apartment and for the first 4 days I used a swamp cooler of cleanser solution in a plastic bin with a tshirt wrapped around the fermenter. After that it spent 10 days on the floor of the closet with ambient temps of about 68-72.



I just got a bottle of starsan, and I will definitely get some oxyclean to make that fermenter a barren wasteland before my next batch!

That sounds to me like fermenting too high. If your ambient temp was 72 then your fermenting temp was going to be about 80. In my experience with US-05, that will give you some tangy flavors. Do you have any harsh alcohol flavors? Tasting kinda like rubbing alcohol smells?

 

[chudsonvt]

I had a batch, that even after a couple weeks in secondary, tasted nasty and sour with a hint of apple. It was nearly unbearable. My best guess was that it was temperature related. However, I left it alone for another month of conditioning. Afterward, I couldn't tell it was even that same beer. SO, at the very least, I can recommend just holding on to what you bottled for a while and you may be delightfully surprised after you let it sit. Hopefully the sanitation suggestions and water suggestions from above will help the future batches for you... Good luck!

 

[pj-]

That sounds to me like fermenting too high. If your ambient temp was 72 then your fermenting temp was going to be about 80. In my experience with US-05, that will give you some tangy flavors. Do you have any harsh alcohol flavors? Tasting kinda like rubbing alcohol smells?

There is more of an alcohol taste than I was expecting, but I wouldn't call it harsh. Although, I primarily drink 8%+ beers so my sensitivity may have dulled. I have a fermometer now so next time I will be able to get a better sense of where my actual temps are at. If necessary I will toss some frozen water bottles into the swamp cooler to keep things under control.

I had a batch, that even after a couple weeks in secondary, tasted nasty and sour with a hint of apple. It was nearly unbearable. My best guess was that it was temperature related. However, I left it alone for another month of conditioning. Afterward, I couldn't tell it was even that same beer. SO, at the very least, I can recommend just holding on to what you bottled for a while and you may be delightfully surprised after you let it sit. Hopefully the sanitation suggestions and water suggestions from above will help the future batches for you... Good luck!

I will have one pumpkin beer a week and maybe it will taste good by the time I run out! I will give the radical red a few weeks before I crack one open.

 

[BrewingTravisty]

There is more of an alcohol taste than I was expecting, but I wouldn't call it harsh. Although, I primarily drink 8%+ beers so my sensitivity may have dulled. I have a fermometer now so next time I will be able to get a better sense of where my actual temps are at. If necessary I will toss some frozen water bottles into the swamp cooler to keep things under control.

Definitely sounds like too high temps. That swamp cooler should help a lot, that's what I use and I try to keep anything using us-05 (which is primarily what I use) in the low 60's. Usually I just need to add a couple bottles of frozen water in a day to keep the right temp. Just keep up on it, try to check it a couple times a day to make sure that the temperature isn't fluctuating too much. After fermentation starts slowing down I let it rise to high 60's to help the yeast clean up a bit.

 

[pj-]

Definitely sounds like too high temps. That swamp cooler should help a lot, that's what I use and I try to keep anything using us-05 (which is primarily what I use) in the low 60's. Usually I just need to add a couple bottles of frozen water in a day to keep the right temp. Just keep up on it, try to check it a couple times a day to make sure that the temperature isn't fluctuating too much. After fermentation starts slowing down I let it rise to high 60's to help the yeast clean up a bit.

Little update..

The pumpkin is tasting about the same after 3 weeks in the bottle. Not good, not gross. The Radical Red has been bottled for a week and the first one I tried was much better than the pumpkin, but still not a good beer. Hopefully it improves as it ages.

After oxicleaning and starsaning the hell out of everything, I did my third kit on sunday, the NB Black IPA. I have the fermenter sitting in a couple inches of water in a closet that has an exterior wall, which is keeping the fermometer readings right around 65. I think I will give this one three weeks before bottling to make sure the yeast have enough time to do their business.

Don't want to jinx it but I think this one will turn out well.

Thanks for the help, all!

 

[BrewingTravisty]

Little update..

The pumpkin is tasting about the same after 3 weeks in the bottle. Not good, not gross. The Radical Red has been bottled for a week and the first one I tried was much better than the pumpkin, but still not a good beer. Hopefully it improves as it ages.

After oxicleaning and starsaning the hell out of everything, I did my third kit on sunday, the NB Black IPA. I have the fermenter sitting in a couple inches of water in a closet that has an exterior wall, which is keeping the fermometer readings right around 65. I think I will give this one three weeks before bottling to make sure the yeast have enough time to do their business.

Don't want to jinx it but I think this one will turn out well.

Thanks for the help, all!

Sounds like that should fix your problems! Let us know How it works out =)