First Try Cider

[agrtek]

First Post, first try.

Ingredients:

• Tree Top Apple Juice - 4 Gallons
• Brown Sugar - 2lbs
• Yeast - Lalvin EC-1118

Apple Juice starting gravity: 1.052
Gravity after Brown Sugar: 1.068 (Correction: @ 106.5 degree that's 1.075)

I rehydrated the yeast as directed by the package (Between 104 and 109 degrees) and pitched it back into the apple juice.

It looks like I have a fine fermentation going on (4 hours later).

Cider Gallery

Wish me luck!

 

[Jesse17]

Good Luck!

 

[agrtek]

Good Luck!

Thank you!

At first my house smelled like beer, now it has a very distinct apple odor

24 hours Later

This is fun.

 

[Jesse17]

I started my first batch 9 days ago. Your recipe is verry simular to mine:

4 Gal. Tree Top Apple Cider
1 Gal. Florida's Natural Apple Juice (my little down didn't have any more cider)
2 LBS. Brown Sugar
1 packet Red Star Pasteur Champagne (came with my starter kit)

It's going will so far. I think I will check the S.G. for the first time tonight.

Question: Did you add the brown sugar directly to the room temp. juice? Did it desolve well? I heated some cider to 120F. to help it desolve, I didn't know if room temp. would work or not.

 

[agrtek]

Question: Did you add the brown sugar directly to the room temp. juice? Did it desolve well? I heated some cider to 120F. to help it desolve, I didn't know if room temp. would work or not.

I heated 1 1/2 galloons to about 120 or so, mixed the brown sugar there and then blended it with the rest of the juice. It disolved great in the hot juice, didn't try at room temp though.

 

[Jesse17]

Ok, it's the end of day 9 since I pitched. I just checked my S.G. it has dropped from 1.062 to 1.001.

Now for the good part, using a sanatized tumbler glass, dipped out a glass. It's very cloudy, and smells like wine, but with a off smell in it. Tastes like dry yet some how rounded at the same time. I was disappointed to find no apple taste at all. It was also quite carbonated. Then I put the glass in the fridgeto chill. After 20 min., the off oder was gone, and it smelled like wine. Still carbonated, but now tasted like a white wine, but more rounded than the stuff my aunt drinks out of a box.

So, now I'm wondering is this the taste that I can expect after aging? I knew with the brown sugar and champaine yeast to expect it to be dryer than I would like, but I was hoping for some apple flavor to it. I don't think I would guess it was made from apples if I hadn't made it.

 

[agrtek]

Hmmmm, you could try adding an apple flavoring to it, sounds usefull.

To be fair though you are using a Champagne yeast known for it's dryness.

Maybe boil down some cider and mix it after fermentation has been stopped?

 

[Jesse17]

Maybe boil down some cider and mix it after fermentation has been stopped?

Would I still be able to age it, or would the cider just get used as carbonation? I don't think fermentation ever really stops as long as the abv hasn't gotten high enough to kill the yeast, and there is any source of sugar left.

 

[agrtek]

Would I still be able to age it, or would the cider just get used as carbonation? I don't think fermentation ever really stops as long as the abv hasn't gotten high enough to kill the yeast, and there is any source of sugar left.

Stop the fermentation?

http://www.eckraus.com/wine-making-stop-fermentation.html

 

[Jesse17]

Stop the fermentation?

http://www.eckraus.com/wine-making-stop-fermentation.html

I thank you for the link, but that link says there is no good way of 'stopping' fermentation. I don't think you can do anything at this point other than back flavor just before drinking with concentrate, sweeten with a non-fermentable sugar (ie. Splenda), for flavore with an 'extract' flavoring.

Any other suggestions?

 

[agrtek]

I thank you for the link, but that link says there is no good way of 'stopping' fermentation. I don't think you can do anything at this point other than back flavor just before drinking with concentrate, sweeten with a non-fermentable sugar (ie. Splenda), for flavore with an 'extract' flavoring.

Any other suggestions?

Not quite true:

- So, What Do You Do?

Well, remember the original goal here is to have a wine that is
sweeter than what a natural fermentation will normally provide.
And what the above tells us is that stopping a wine's ferment-
ation in mid-stream when it is at the sweetness you like is not
the answer for the average home wine maker.

The most successful way for a home wine maker to have a sweet
wine is to let it finish fermenting completely to where it is
dry. Then let the yeast settle out to the bottom on its own over
a 2 to 3 week period. The settling process can be sped up with
the use of a clarifier such as Speedy Bentonite.

Once this happens you can then siphon the wine off of the yeast
settlings and add Potassium Sorbate and Sodium Bisulfite as
directed on their packages. Once you have done this you can then
simply sweeten your wine to taste with a sugar mixture of your
choice.

It is important that the wine's fermentation process be complete
before adding more sugar along with Potassium Sorbate and Sodium
Bisulfite to a wine. One way to make absolutely sure is to check
the wine with a hydrometer. The wine should have a reading of
1.000 or less on the hydrometer's Specific Gravity scale.

I believe what they are getting at is "Get the yeast away from the beverage".

So, rack into another carboy/bottle, possible using filtration, add potassium sorbate and sodium bisulfate, add sweetener/flavoring. I'm sure there are plenty of ways to remove/kill/make infeffective the yeast in your brew, afterall, comercial shops seem capable of it.

 

[agrtek]

Knew I could find something.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brewing_(beer)

After conditioning for a week to several months, the beer is often filtered to remove yeast and particulates. The "bright beer" is then ready for serving or packaging.

 

[Loweface]

If you want to bottle carbonate you will need live yeast in the bottle and to sweeten a non-fermentable sugar. Try lactose (if you're not intolerant) as it's a bit more natural than splenda.

 

[RICLARK]

I just started my 2nd batch of Cider..

4 Gal. Old Orchard Apple Juice
1 Gal. Old Orchard Cherry Juice
1 Lbs. Light Brown Sugar
1 Lbs. Cane Sugar
2 Packets Red Star Pasteur Champagne Yeast
O.G. 1.062

First batch was Amazing.


Primary: Apple Cherry Cider
Secondary: Australian Pale Ale
Bottled: Bavarian Lager, Australian Bitter Ale
Drinking: Bitter

 

[agrtek]

Is it normal for the cider to alternate between a very foamy surface and a very flat surface?

 

[Jesse17]

I just started my 2nd batch of Cider..

4 Gal. Old Orchard Apple Juice
1 Gal. Old Orchard Cherry Juice
1 Lbs. Light Brown Sugar
1 Lbs. Cane Sugar
2 Packets Red Star Pasteur Champagne Yeast
O.G. 1.062

First batch was Amazing.


Primary: Apple Cherry Cider
Secondary: Australian Pale Ale
Bottled: Bavarian Lager, Australian Bitter Ale
Drinking: Bitter

I'm curius as to what how it tasted. Can you describe? Also I'd like to know your whole process if it's not to much to ask. If you do as I do and record everything in a log on my comp-u-tator Is it something you could email?

 

[kjones]

I just started my 2nd batch of Cider..

4 Gal. Old Orchard Apple Juice
1 Gal. Old Orchard Cherry Juice
1 Lbs. Light Brown Sugar
1 Lbs. Cane Sugar
2 Packets Red Star Pasteur Champagne Yeast
O.G. 1.062

First batch was Amazing.

Was it really dry?

 

[RICLARK]

It was Dry but Not as dry as you probably would think. I like it.

 

[agrtek]

It's starting to clear now, the strong apple odor has faded.

I have until christmas, should a dump some more sugar and try to boost the abv? Based on my first reading if the sugar is fermented completely I should get almost 10%. What concerns will there be regarding flavor, will more fermentation/alcohol remove the apple taste?

 

[RICLARK]

I wouldn't add anymore sugar if it has already fermented out 10% abv is plenty to sit around and sip on in my opinion.

 

[agrtek]

I wouldn't add anymore sugar if it has already fermented out 10% abv is plenty to sit around and sip on in my opinion.

You were too late my friend, I added another 2lbs of sugar and liberal squirt of honey and a table spoon of vanilla extract, fermentation is going at a nice rate again (bubbles freely flowing up all sides of the fermenter), now on to x-mas!

 

[agrtek]

You were too late my friend, I added another 2lbs of sugar and liberal squirt of honey and a table spoon of vanilla extract, fermentation is going at a nice rate again (bubbles freely flowing up all sides of the fermenter), now on to x-mas!

10 Days since.

Still bubbling STRONG.

Seems all it needed was a little food and some nutrient.

If I want this ready for Xmas, when should I start crash cooling this bad boy?

 

[macs]

10 Days since.

Still bubbling STRONG.

Seems all it needed was a little food and some nutrient.

If I want this ready for Xmas, when should I start crash cooling this bad boy?

I don't think you will like the taste if you drink it at Christmas time. Cider needs more time to condition. One month at least. Three is even better. Since you added more sugar, now the fermentation process has started over again. All that sugar is only going to kill what little Apple flavor you had left and replace it with more alcohol. Next time try Ed Wort's Apfelwein recipe for a dry, strong cider(8-9%abv) or if you want more Apple flavor, try the same recipe but use Wyeast 3068 instead of Montrachet and add one less pound of corn sugar. It will taste sweet and still have apple flavor, but will only have about 4-5%abv. I brew both recipes and sometimes I just mix them 50/50 when pouring in a glass to get the benefits of both ciders.

 

[BrewDey]

I don't think you will like the taste if you drink it at Christmas time. Cider needs more time to condition. One month at least. Three is even better. Since you added more sugar, now the fermentation process has started over again. All that sugar is only going to kill what little Apple flavor you had left and replace it with more alcohol. Next time try Ed Wort's Apfelwein recipe for a dry, strong cider(8-9%abv) or if you want more Apple flavor, try the same recipe but use Wyeast 3068 instead of Montrachet and add one less pound of corn sugar. It will taste sweet and still have apple flavor, but will only have about 4-5%abv. I brew both recipes and sometimes I just mix them 50/50 when pouring in a glass to get the benefits of both ciders.

Man-that Wyeast 3068 is STILL going. I followed Ed Wort's recipe exactly except used the 3068. It's been cool down there (low to mid 60s), but it's been 7 weeks and still getting tiny bubbles. Is this normal? Should i warm it up or just wait it out?

 

[explosivebeer]

I don't think you will like the taste if you drink it at Christmas time. Cider needs more time to condition. One month at least. Three is even better. Since you added more sugar, now the fermentation process has started over again. All that sugar is only going to kill what little Apple flavor you had left and replace it with more alcohol. Next time try Ed Wort's Apfelwein recipe for a dry, strong cider(8-9%abv) or if you want more Apple flavor, try the same recipe but use Wyeast 3068 instead of Montrachet and add one less pound of corn sugar. It will taste sweet and still have apple flavor, but will only have about 4-5%abv. I brew both recipes and sometimes I just mix them 50/50 when pouring in a glass to get the benefits of both ciders.

Hey Macs,

It sounds like you have quite a bit of experience with ciders. I was hoping to make a high alcohol content, sweet, apple-y concoction for the holidays. Is that combination even possible?

I realize it might be a bit late now, but I thought I'd see if there was any way to speed the process along. I have some 2nd-generation bottles of yeast that I've washed from previous beer batches that would probably plow through fermentation. I have both California Ale yeast and British Ale yeast on hand (WLP051 and WLP005, respectively).

Also, my previous attempt at cider was simply done in the 1-gallon glass jug the cider came in. I added some sugar and yeast and put an airlock on it and it seemed to have finished fermentation in week or so. It ended up very dry though - more like champagne, obviously from the champagne yeast I used.

I guess what I'm envisioning is doing a batch with brown sugar, ripping through fermentation to get as much alcohol as possible, transferring to secondary, and then adding a bit more cider with brown sugar, as well as some sort of sulfite or other fermentation inhibitor.

How long do you think it'll take start to finish to have a decent result?

 

[JimC]

Hey Macs,

It sounds like you have quite a bit of experience with ciders. I was hoping to make a high alcohol content, sweet, apple-y concoction for the holidays. Is that combination even possible?

A crap load of apple juice concentrate, vacuum evaporated juice, hand press -frozen- apples (you'll need ~25-30 apples/quart) or illegally make applejack. Adding sugar makes it an apple wine and you loose a whole lot of apple character.

Of those, ice cider (pressed frozen apples) is by FAR the best. Warm it up and mull it with some spices and it has got to be one of my favorite drinks on the planet.

How long do you think it'll take start to finish to have a decent result?

Good cider takes time. I try to let mine age for at least 3 months. 6 is my target. And thats without turning it into a wine with added sugars which I would let age for a good year. I started the cider I am gifting to some friends in early Sept and it is just getting to a place where I wouldn't call it green now.

EI, start making your cider and mead for next Christmas now.

 

[explosivebeer]

Thanks for the info JimC. I'll have to do a little more research into ice cider! Do you need a press for that? Or are there any household items you can use to simulate one?

Also, what spices do you mull it with? I'm guessing nutmeg, cinnamon, etc.

 

[JimC]

Thanks for the info JimC. I'll have to do a little more research into ice cider! Do you need a press for that? Or are there any household items you can use to simulate one?

Also, what spices do you mull it with? I'm guessing nutmeg, cinnamon, etc.

I wouldn't even attempt to press 400-500 frozen apples needed for a 5 gallon batch without a proper grinding machine and press. I am lucky enough to live close to the the production centers in Quebec, so I just buy the stuff. I suppose you could grind it up with a food processor and make some sort of press... but it would take forever.

Typically pumpkin type spices, yes.

 

[macs]

Man-that Wyeast 3068 is STILL going. I followed Ed Wort's recipe exactly except used the 3068. It's been cool down there (low to mid 60s), but it's been 7 weeks and still getting tiny bubbles. Is this normal? Should i warm it up or just wait it out?

Did you cut the recipe down to 1 pound of sugar instead of 2? If not, it might be too sweet! With 1 pound, it's just about right. The 3068 will leave a certain percentage of sugar behind.

 

[macs]

Man-that Wyeast 3068 is STILL going. I followed Ed Wort's recipe exactly except used the 3068. It's been cool down there (low to mid 60s), but it's been 7 weeks and still getting tiny bubbles. Is this normal? Should i warm it up or just wait it out?

Don't worry, it's normal. It may be a little too cool, slowing your fermentation way down. I ferment mine in the mid 70's mainly because I live in Texas and we don't get too many cool days! My last batch took a month at 72-74*F to become still. Take a gravity reading and see where it's at. Mine finished at 1.025 from a starting gravity of 1.058. It's just about perfect, in terms of sweetness. What was you starting gravity??

 

[macs]

Is it normal for the cider to alternate between a very foamy surface and a very flat surface?

Yes it is...I watched my Apfelwein alternate between totally flat and 1/4" of Krausen every 3 minutes like freak'in clockwork! It was weird. Don't ask why I decided to time it....I'm just like that sometimes.

 

[macs]

Hey Macs,

It sounds like you have quite a bit of experience with ciders. I was hoping to make a high alcohol content, sweet, apple-y concoction for the holidays. Is that combination even possible?

I realize it might be a bit late now, but I thought I'd see if there was any way to speed the process along. I have some 2nd-generation bottles of yeast that I've washed from previous beer batches that would probably plow through fermentation. I have both California Ale yeast and British Ale yeast on hand (WLP051 and WLP005, respectively).

Also, my previous attempt at cider was simply done in the 1-gallon glass jug the cider came in. I added some sugar and yeast and put an airlock on it and it seemed to have finished fermentation in week or so. It ended up very dry though - more like champagne, obviously from the champagne yeast I used.

I guess what I'm envisioning is doing a batch with brown sugar, ripping through fermentation to get as much alcohol as possible, transferring to secondary, and then adding a bit more cider with brown sugar, as well as some sort of sulfite or other fermentation inhibitor.

How long do you think it'll take start to finish to have a decent result?

I still have much to learn and much experimenting to do. That's why I'm on this forum. It is rather tricky to get high alky plus flavor and sweetness with natural techniques. Most yeasts want to eat all the sugar and leave little sweetness and especially "apple flavor" behind. Either they make high alky and little sweetness and flavor or low alky and more sweetness and flavor. That is why I found two recipes I like and sometimes just mix them 50/50 in a glass. Everyone will have their own favorite though, so just go for it and see what you like best. I have many gallons of cider that I don't like. Maybe in a year I'll try them again. Oddly, one of my favorites was an accident. A plastic gallon jug of Treetop apple juice that spontaneously fermented from a wild yeast strain! I discovered it just in time too cause the plastic bottle was about to explode!! I usually start sampling my cider after 1 month because I'm impatient. It's drinkable by then but will improve greatly with 3 or more months. I can sample away 5 gallons in no time

 

[BrewDey]

What was you starting gravity??

I actually didn't take a reading. With my previous batches of Ed's, I just wait for all signs of fermentation to stop-then wait a few more weeks before bottling. Not very exact I know-but I had been getting low readings from extract brews (not thoroughly mixed), so I got out of the habit. Maybe I'll but a blanket around it. I think it's almost finished.

 

[Benny Blanco]

Just made my first batch myself. It's edworts recipe exactly except i used a 22oz bag of dextrose instead of the 2 lbs because that was all i had on hand.

It's been over 3 days and fermentation has kicked off. I read on this thread about the OP adding 2 lbs of sugar after a few weeks and fermentation started up again. Someone replied that this will boost his abv but his apple flavor/sweetness will suffer in the final product.

I probably shouldn't be concerned, but there wouldn't be a problem adding the remaining 10 oz. of dextrose tomorrow when I go the the HBS...right? I mean, it's only been 3 days since fermentation started.

 

[Yooper]

You can add more dextrose if you want. It won't harm it. You can also leave it out if you want. Just a little less ABV.

 

[Jesse17]

I read on this thread about the OP adding 2 lbs of sugar after a few weeks and fermentation started up again. Someone replied that this will boost his abv but his apple flavor/sweetness will suffer in the final product.

I probably shouldn't be concerned, but there wouldn't be a problem adding the remaining 10 oz. of dextrose tomorrow when I go the the HBS...right? I mean, it's only been 3 days since fermentation started.

More sugar = more abv, and less apple/sweetness

It doesn't matter when you add the sugar, as far as taste is concerned, but the longer you wait, the longer it will take to finish for two reasons. First, you'll have fresh sugar to start fermenting again. Second, it will take longer for the second batch of sugar to ferment than the first, because the longer you wait, the more yeast has settled out of suspension.

On the other hand, three days probably won't make any difference in how long, because the first couple of days is basically the 'adjustment' phase of the yeast.

 

[Benny Blanco]

So, if adding the dextrose right to the 5 gallons after the juice is in the carboy is fine..then why bother shaking it in a container and mixing it well before adding it?

Why can't I just add the 2 lbs of dextrose after I fill the carboy up?

 

[RICLARK]

I have Found that The more Sugar anything you put in Cider The More SOur the Final Product I use 2# at the most and my cider is still quite sour.

 

[macs]

So, if adding the dextrose right to the 5 gallons after the juice is in the carboy is fine..then why bother shaking it in a container and mixing it well before adding it?

Why can't I just add the 2 lbs of dextrose after I fill the carboy up?

You could do that if you want, but the reason for the other method is mainly: 1) To aerate the juice while you are dissolving the sugar in it.
2) A sugar solution will more quickly and uniformly disperse into the Must, than would a rather large dose of crystalline sugar which would tend to sink to the bottom and dissolve very slowly.

 

[agrtek]

White Wine, that is all