First time sour brewing, need loads of input.

[Kharnynb]

Doing a bit of experimenting, as i've gotten some 5 liter(bit more than gallon) bottles with stoppers and airlocks from a friend.

The idea is to make a base beer, about 12 ibu with pilsner malt and mittelfruh, fermenting with nottingham.

then i want to split the batch as follows.
Secondary beer 1
5 liters beer.
Wlp648 Trois vrai

Secondary beer 2
5 liters beer.
Wlp655 belgian sour mix 1

Secondary beer 3
5 liters beer
Wlp 648
1 kg strawberries

Secondary beer 4
5 liters beer
wlp 655
500g rhubarb
500g strawberries

does this at all sound achievable and or sane?
how long should i be thinking of having this in secondary?
i've got some oak chips for secondary, about 3 ounce, split between batches or only use for the first 2?

I'll probally think up more questions later, but feel free to add any helpful info

 

[microbusbrewery]

You won't get lactic acid from WLP648, so it won't be a sour beer. You'll probably get some tartness from the one with the strawberries, but it still won't be a sour beer.

Re the versions using WLP655, the IBUs are too high and will inhibit the lactic acid bacteria. I usually use aged hops in my sours, so theoretically 0 IBUs, but I do like my sours to be quite sour. I'd shoot for something around 6 IBUs or less. This will help ensure the lacto and pedio can do their thing. Also with the 655 versions, I'd consider pitching 655 from the start on at least one of them. If you only pitch 655 in secondary, you'll most likely get a much more subdued sourness. Mash high so as to give the brett and bugs something to chew on for a while.

 

[Kharnynb]

was thinking of mashing at 155 degrees F, thanks for the 648 thing, had totally missed that.....
maybe i remove my 60 minutes hop, just hop at 20 and 0 for taste, and get about 4-5 ibu's



how about pitching 648 in primary for the 20 ish liters and then pitching the 655 in secondary on all beers?

 

[microbusbrewery]

I used 648 as a primary strain for a Saison I made years ago and I really liked it. I wouldn't hesitate to use it as a primary strain. Re mash temps, 155 is good. You could go a little higher if you wanted, but I wouldn't go lower.

 

[worlddivides]

was thinking of mashing at 155 degrees F, thanks for the 648 thing, had totally missed that.....
maybe i remove my 60 minutes hop, just hop at 20 and 0 for taste, and get about 4-5 ibu's



how about pitching 648 in primary for the 20 ish liters and then pitching the 655 in secondary on all beers?

I'd say you should only have 1 hop addition, which should be your bittering hops, but that instead of 60 minutes, you should just do 30 minutes. Also, you'll want it to be less than usual (depending on your recipe, maybe even a lot less than usual), so that you can manage only 4-8 IBUs or so. The lower the better, really. If you can get something below 4 IBUs, sure, do it.

There are other factors as well, but generally any IBU value over 10 will inhibit Lactobacillus. In fact, that's the whole reason hops are used in beers. To prevent Lactobacillus from "spoiling" (souring) the beer. Pediococcus isn't as sensitive to hops, but it also take much much longer to create lactic acid than Lactobacillus.

Another reason not to add hops for aroma or taste is that they will be ruined in the aging process (hops deteriorate over time, as most prominently demonstrated by old IPAs). If you do want hoppiness in your sour, then I recommend getting all of that from dry hopping the beer about a week or two before bottling.

 

[Kharnynb]

okay, so only one hop addition at around 30 minutes and maybe up the mashing to 158 then.

hmm, starting to get the basics.

what timeframe for secondary would you guys recommend.

 

[microbusbrewery]

what timeframe for secondary would you guys recommend.

Sours are kinda done when they're done. I wouldn't count on anything less than 6 months.

 

[microbusbrewery]

Sours are kinda done when they're done. I wouldn't count on anything less than 6 months.

Sorry that's referring to the ones with the 655. For the 648, it shouldn't take as long. I've had it reach terminal gravity in about a month. Just make sure the gravity is stable. Especially if you bottle.

 

[Kharnynb]

So, the plan so far.

Brew a 20 liter (5 ish gallon) batch with pilsner, some hallertau, at about 4-5 ibu's and use the 648 for the primary fermentation.

Secondary beer 1
5 liters beer.
1 ounce oak chips
wlp 655
leave for minimum 6 months

Secondary beer 2
5 liters beer.
no extra additions, this will be bottled sooner, 1-2 months

Secondary beer 3
5 liters beer
1 kg strawberries
wlp 655
1 ounce oak chips
leave for minimum 6 months

Secondary beer 4
5 liters beer
500g rhubarb
500g strawberries
no extra additions, bottle after 1-2 months.

 

[Kharnynb]

The "main batch" is bubbling happily in the 5 gallon bucket at the moment, in a few weeks, i'll split them up in the 4 different gallon and a bit containers.

Side question, is wlp648 already enough for the whole "contaminates all plastic" kind of deal? or is it only after you add the lacto etc?