First Time EBIAB and problem: burnt batch?

[ca2devri]

Ok, first a bit of background:

This is my first time doing AG brew. I've read a ton on this site and have been working on an electric BIAB keggle for the last 6 months. I got the element enclosures from brewhardware.com and all the other fittings and mesh bag from ontariobeerkegs.com. The kettle has 2 2000W elements that are regular high watt density which I was hoping was ok. I put 2, 20A GFCI outlets in my garage and on the test boils everything seemed to be working smoothly.

I did 2 extract brews which are not finished fermenting yet but everything went well and they look and smell good so far. We don't have any control on the elements, we are just plugging and unplugging them, but both on 100% seems to give a decent boil rate (about 1 gallon / hr or so). So...

Last night I finally started my first AG brew. I went with Ed Wort's "Haus Pale Ale" because it had a very simple grain bill and I wanted something straight forward to start with. I ground the grains very fine and the mash seemed to go well, although the sleeping bag method seemed to lose more heat that others have suggested it would (we lifted the bag and reheated 2 X over the mash). I don't have a good measure of efficiency yet, but the gravity afterwards was over 1.050.

The problem started at about 15 min left in the boil when we could smell a burnt smell. Then after chilling and transferring we could see that there was a layer of burnt material on the elements. I guess it is the tiny bits of grain that made it through the bag and eventually stuck to the element and burned during the boil.

So the question is, what did we do wrong? Is the HWD element a bad choice? Did we grind the grain too fine? Do I need a power control on the elements? How can I fix this problem?

Here is a picture of the kettle after the brew. The wort tastes very slightly burnt (hard to tell actually) but I'm guessing it's no good. I pitched anyway, but am a bit bummed about it, but more importantly have to get this fixed for next time.

 

[jonurban]

Did you use pellet hops straight in the boil water? Perhaps a hop holder or hop spider will help next time. You may also consider a false bottom for your grain bag to sit on above your elements.

 

[trimixdiver1]

Don't use a false bottom as the scorching would only be magnified due to less circulation.

The elements are too high density, I have a 5500w cameo ulwd element thats brand new that I can sell you. $30.00. Get a controller on the elements if you must use the hwd elements, even then it could scorch.

What happens is as the sugar content increases, the ability of the wort to absorb heat slows down, so if you keep pumping heat out of your elements, the wort can't absorb it and it burns. Also you were probably way above the boiling point of the wort. Another reason to get a controller.

 

[mmb]

So the question is, what did we do wrong? Is the HWD element a bad choice? Did we grind the grain too fine? Do I need a power control on the elements? How can I fix this problem?

Ultra low watt density elements are what what tend to be used in e-kettles. You'll also find that your elements, without power control, are running at 100% and that is usually not needed to maintain a boil. I'd imagine that if you swapped the HWD elements for ULWD elements you'd not have the burn/scorch problem.

Chances are, it really won't effect your beer other than darkening color on light color beer. You could taste it because the Haus Pale is a fairly light flavored beer.

And wear some long pants and closed toed shoes while brewing. Second and third degree burns on legs and feet are not fun.

 

[ca2devri]

Ok, So I hear what you guys are saying. Get ULWD and/or controller. What kind of controller would I need. Really I'd like to keep it simple and have something I can just dial the power setting on once the boil has started. I guess I would ideally want 2 and turn both elements down thus essentially changing the power density lower.

I steered away from the 5500W element because I wanted to stick with my 2 20A (120V) circuits I already have in my garage. I'm hoping I can just use them.

Good point on the shoes. It was hot, but I should have been more careful.

 

[haeffnkr]

Here is my setup

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f170/first-run-ebiab-w-pics-410168/

Here is a ULWD 120v - http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000KKVZUO/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

I have burned batches and the lessons learned are -

You need clean and scrub the elements after EACH batch and keep them clean.
You need to grind the grain once, I set my mill at .035
You need a stir motor or stir the wort by hand after you pull the bag out until the boil starts to keep the grain dust from settling on the element.
Wheat burns more easily than barley...

Search some of my posts for more information
Good luck
Kevin

 

[wilserbrewer]

I have used 2000w HD elements for years. I have burnt one batch out of very, very many, and still use the 2000w HD elements without issue. The one batch that I burnt, I paused brew session pre-boil for about a half hour to run a few errands, and I believe all the trub settled and burnt. It is the proteins that scorch on the element, not the sugars IMO. The key is to have a fine poly voile bag and not a mesh bag that doesn't let much dust through, and also stir a bit as the wort is coming to a boil.

JMO, but I don't feel the HWD vs ULWD is the core of the issue, as I have also read of people scorching with ULWD???

Rather, I feel that heating heavily trub and protein laden wort that is stagnant is the danger. Even an occasional stir will make a huge difference as you approach boil.

Just my observations and opinions. My guess is that your crush was very fine, your bag very coarse, and the high level of trub in your kettle settled around the elements and scorched. It is also very important to clean the elements after each brew with a scrubby pad, allowing a build up on your element is very bad. Had you cleaned the elements well b/w brews?

W/ only 4000w in a keggle, you likely don't even need a controller to boil...boil over was not a problem was it?

Did you fire the elements during the mash at all?

 

[ca2devri]

Just my observations and opinions. My guess is that your crush was very fine, your bag very coarse, and the high level of trub in your kettle settled around the elements and scorched. It is also very important to clean the elements after each brew with a scrubby pad, allowing a build up on your element is very bad. Had you cleaned the elements well b/w brews?

W/ only 4000w in a keggle, you likely don't even need a controller to boil...boil over was not a problem was it?

Did you fire the elements during the mash at all?

We lifted the bag twice and fired the elements for about 1 min to increase the mash back to temp. The mash temp wasn't holding well enough. No, boil over was no problem at all. With both elements full on the boil isn't overly vigorous even. Note that we only notice the burn smell in the last 15 min of boil so I think it took some time to build up on the elements. They were quite clean when we started as this was our first AG batch.

We ground very fine based on a lot of comments about BIAB that you can't grind too fine. There was some flour in the ground grains even. Our bag is the voile material and is very very fine so I don't think that's the issue. I will definitely try grinding less fine next time. There was a lot of sediment in the wort. I'm pretty sure that's the culprit. Based on what you guys are saying it sounds to me like it is worth me trying the setup as-is again with: 1. Single grind, less fine and 2. Stir wort as it comes to a boil.

Looks like it will be a fair amount of work to get the elements cleaned. Any tips for cleaning them?

Chris

 

[haeffnkr]

To clean the element-
Get off what you can with a stainless steel scrubby every time you brew, shortly after you get the wort out.
Scrub it all sides and use the stainless steel scrubby like dental floss and get it all around the element.

You can also, and most times I do, on an off brewing day, put in enough water to cover the element by a few inches, set you controller to 210 ish add some PBW like solution and let it go for 30 minutes or so then drain and clean again with a stainless scrubby, should be like new.

There is a Dollar Tree store by me that has 3 scrubbies for a $1 that I use all the time.

Yes-
Grind once, stir the wort, especially when the element is full on during the ramp up time from Mash to Boil to keep any flour from burning and keep the element clean and you should be good to go.

good luck