First time brewing

[Merledm]

I've been drinking cider for years and finally decided to try and brew some myself. I've spent numerous hours reading posts from this awesome community's members(special thanks to idtapthat). All of the information has been soooo helpful.

After much thought about which way to start, I opted for buying store bought pasteurized sweet cider. It's from a well established orchard a few hours away. It's available at a local grocery store and comes in 4litre glass jugs for about $10. I figured this was a good deal as I'd likely have to pay $3-$5 just for the jug alone. As well, it saves the sterilizing the jug process.
I bought 5 jugs of the cider. My idea was to keep the juice consistent and use a few different yeasts. Things didn't start as planned, my daughter and I drank 4 of the jugs, oops. This ended up being a good thing, as I really like the cider and now I have 4 jugs for secondary fermentation. I bought 3 more new jugs of cider and decided to start.
I am fortunate to have a great brew store close to my work, Homecraft Brew and wine supplies(Kingston, Ontario). The internet is great, but being able to stop in to a brick and mortar shop with experienced staff and all the supplies you need is awesome. Support your local brew store!
It took me a handfull of false starts before I got the ball rolling. I'd get everything out and realize I didn't have cleaning solution, or sanitizing solution. I'd go back to my phone re-read my favourite posts on the forum and regroup with a list things needed.
The brew shop had all the yeasts I wanted to try. I decided to try:
Safale S04
Mangrove Jack's Craft series M02
Nottingham ale yeast
Everything I read about S04 and Nottingham sounded like what I was looking for. The M02 was suggested by the shop as they said a lot of local home brewers gave it great reviews.
Finally this past Saturday, all my ducks were in a row and I started my first batch. I got my spare bedroom closet shelf cleared to store the jugs. Checked the temperature, it consistently stays between 60-63°F.
I keep the light on in the closet with an incandescent bulb, it seems to be the cheapest way to help keep the temp where I want it. I don't think it creates enough light to cause any change in the fermentation. Thoughts?
I cleaned and sanitized my equipment and working area. opening jug at a time, I poured close to a cup of the must into a test tube. Took SG, PH readings and marked them on the labels along with yeast and date. For some reason I left a 0 out of the SG readings.The yeast came in 11g pouches, they are meant for 5gallon batches approximately. I measured it out to 1/2-5/8 tsp per gallon. Holy crap, I just pitched the yeast. I put the stoppers and air lock in place, half filled the airlock with Star San solution. What a feeling! The S04 and M02 I put in dry but the Nottingham I mixed with water first. The last jug I did with Nottingham as well but I added 1 cup of maple syrup and mixed well before pitching the yeast. I placed the jugs in the closet and have been waiting like a six year old waiting for Santa. I'd check them every few hours to see if they were bubbling yet. The S04 started fermenting first within a 12 hours. The others were closer to 24-30 hours in. Everything is bubbling nicely now.
I feel confident that I followed all of the best practices I've leaned so far. I'm sure I'll end up with a drinkable cider. I'm now looking forward to getting everything ready for stage two. Hoping to get an total acidity testing kit.
Thanks to everyone for your informative posts that helped me get to this place. I want to share my experience and look forward to many more batches.

Cheers!

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[Merledm]

So it's been 9 days and the first bottle is done fermenting.This was the Safale S04.It's been racked and tested. SG started at 1.045 and is currently at 1.022. PH dropped from 4.0 to 3.7.The calculator says about 3% abv. Is this normal? Without adding any more sugar, should it rise another % or two after sitting in the secondary for a couple weeks? I like the taste so far, it still has apple flavours. Looking forward to some Christmas cider. Cheers.

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[treacheroustexan]

So it's been 9 days and the first bottle is done fermenting.This was the Safale S04.It's been racked and tested. SG started at 1.045 and is currently at 1.022. PH dropped from 4.0 to 3.7.The calculator says about 3% abv. Is this normal? Without adding any more sugar, should it rise another % or two after sitting in the secondary for a couple weeks? I like the taste so far, it still has apple flavours. Looking forward to some Christmas cider. Cheers.

If it's at 1.022 it's not done fermenting. I believe cider usually/should finish super dry, like all of the way down to 1.000.

 

[stbob]

Nice! I just bottled up a 4 pack of " accidental " fresh cider that started fermentation in my fridge. I didn't do anything but take it out and put it on counter with an airlock, it tastes pretty good! Why let it go to waste, my wife would have dumped it.

 

[Merledm]

If it's at 1.022 it's not done fermenting. I believe cider usually/should finish super dry, like all of the way down to 1.000.

You're right, I guess I wasn't thinking. Should I have left this in the primary until it finished completely? Bubbles started showing a day or so ago. When I came home tonight they stopped and the liquid in the air lock had no bubbles left.

 

[Merledm]

If it's at 1.022 it's not done fermenting. I believe cider usually/should finish super dry, like all of the way down to 1.000.

You're right, I guess I wasn't thinking. Should I have left this in the primary until it finished completely? Bubbles started showing a day or so ago. When I came home tonight they stopped and the liquid in the air lock had no bubbles left. I was excited and nervous, I figured now was the time to rack.

 

[Maylar]

Racking at 1.022 is a bit early, but it just means you'll have more lees when it's done. all the yeasts you mentioned are capable of finishing at 1.000 or thereabouts. Your cider is still fermenting, bubbles or no.

 

[ericbw]

It will still finish out, but it might be a little slow going. If you like the taste now you could cold crash to get as much yeast to drop as possible, then use campden and/or sorbate to try to get rid of as much yeast as you can. Then bottle it and REFRIGERATE it if you're going to drink it soon.

It's probably pretty sweet right now which is how I like it!

 

[MarkKF]

If it's at 1.022 it's not done fermenting. I believe cider usually/should finish super dry, like all of the way down to 1.000.

My S-04 finished at 1.004 temps in low 60's both with and without any added sugar.

 

[bernardsmith]

Two quick and dirty observations... 1. although a package of yeast is designed to ferment up to 5 or 6 gallons, given the price of the yeast (inexpensive) it seems to me to make far more sense to pitch a whole pack rather than measure out 1/5 per gallon carboy. I am sure that it is possible to "over-pitch" but a single pack of yeast is not going to give you that problem and pitching only 1/5 is - as you found - likely to result in unnecessary delays... 1/5 of a pack may not in fact contain enough yeast cells to dominate the juice and inhibit other bacteria and wild yeast from adding to the mix...
2. If you bought the apple juice from the same source and from the same store I would be very suspicious if each bottle has a significantly different SG and pH... If you found such wide variation when you measured either the folk filling the bottles are playing games ... or your hydrometer and pH meter need re-calibrating. Alternatively, the person taking the readings may not have been very accurate... But a pH in one bottle of 3.5 and in another of 4.0 does not make any sense if the juice came from the same batch. It is just not possible because no orchard presses a gallon at a time and then remixes the apples for each next gallon...

The SGs look different too but it is possible you added sugar to the one that has the higher SG (is that 1.060? - looks too high to be just apple juice)..

 

[Merledm]

Two quick and dirty observations... 1. although a package of yeast is designed to ferment up to 5 or 6 gallons, given the price of the yeast (inexpensive) it seems to me to make far more sense to pitch a whole pack rather than measure out 1/5 per gallon carboy. I am sure that it is possible to "over-pitch" but a single pack of yeast is not going to give you that problem and pitching only 1/5 is - as you found - likely to result in unnecessary delays... 1/5 of a pack may not in fact contain enough yeast cells to dominate the juice and inhibit other bacteria and wild yeast from adding to the mix...

I wondered about that. I have read and heard varying opinions. Some have said yeast is yeast, it eats sugar and deposits alcohol, more will just make it go faster. Next batch I'm going to pitch more yeast, not worry about measuring so much.

2. If you bought the apple juice from the same source and from the same store I would be very suspicious if each bottle has a significantly different SG and pH... If you found such wide variation when you measured either the folk filling the bottles are playing games ... or your hydrometer and pH meter need re-calibrating. Alternatively, the person taking the readings may not have been very accurate... But a pH in one bottle of 3.5 and in another of 4.0 does not make any sense if the juice came from the same batch. It is just not possible because no orchard presses a gallon at a time and then remixes the apples for each next gallon...

I am pretty sure it's my eyesight. Turning 40 soon and I've noticed my vision is not what it once was. Thought it was weird that the readings were that different from jug to jug. I figured second readings after racking would help prove that I'm the weak link.

The SGs look different too but it is possible you added sugar to the one that has the higher SG (is that 1.060? - looks too high to be just apple juice)..

Yep added maple syrup to the last one. 1.6 I believe.

Thanks for your observations. I'm a noob looking to learn.

 

[slym2none]

My noob-lesson I take heart to still: don't throw away money.

There's no use in putting 11 grams of yeast into one gallon of beer/cider/wine. It's a total waste, and at those concentrations, you might actually be overpitching enough to cause off-flavours. At the least, I'd split a pack of yeast over 3 one-gallon batches.

But that's just me...

 

[slym2none]

...1/5 of a pack may not in fact contain enough yeast cells to dominate the juice and inhibit other bacteria and wild yeast from adding to the mix...

Using math, if 2.2 grams of yeast isn't enough to "cover" 1 gallon of beer or cider, then 11 grams isn't going to be enough to "cover" 5 gallons. Yet, the manufacturers say it's enough for 6 gallons of beer/cider.

Ergo, using math, I think I have proved your statement to be false.

 

[Merledm]

It will still finish out, but it might be a little slow going. If you like the taste now you could cold crash to get as much yeast to drop as possible, then use campden and/or sorbate to try to get rid of as much yeast as you can. Then bottle it and REFRIGERATE it if you're going to drink it soon.

It's probably pretty sweet right now which is how I like it!

I like this idea. The one gallon jugs fit in the fridge easily. Well maybe not 4 of them.

 

[MarkKF]

My noob-lesson I take heart to still: don't throw away money.

There's no use in putting 11 grams of yeast into one gallon of beer/cider/wine. It's a total waste, and at those concentrations, you might actually be overpitching enough to cause off-flavours. At the least, I'd split a pack of yeast over 3 one-gallon batches.

But that's just me...

I always use the 5-6 gal. packet for 1 gal. batches or split it for two 1 gal. batches. Never had off flavors. The packets are like $1-2 for wine yeast and $3-5 for ale yeast. It's the cheapest part of making cider. If you wanna save money then use one packet for your first batch and repitch it in every other batch that season.

 

[Merledm]

If you wanna save money then use one packet for your first batch and repitch it in every other batch that season.

I'm a huge cheapo and love the idea of reusing. I haven't read up on reusing the yeast yet. New adventures ahead.

 

[MarkKF]

It's easy enough. Rack out the cider into a secondary vessel and then just put more fresh cider in on top of the lees.

 

[bernardsmith]

Using math, if 2.2 grams of yeast isn't enough to "cover" 1 gallon of beer or cider, then 11 grams isn't going to be enough to "cover" 5 gallons. Yet, the manufacturers say it's enough for 6 gallons of beer/cider.

Ergo, using math, I think I have proved your statement to be false.

It's not so much about math - it's about storing unused yeast under conditions that ask for it to be contaminated and so create problems with must that may cost real money for the sake of saving cents... Your call ... of course... but you ain't getting me or anyone I know to save a $1.50 cent on a pack of yeast when we spend $8.00 a gallon of apple juice blended for hard cider and expressed by a local orchard ... but your arithmetic may be wrong if you need a minimum number of cells to effectively ferment any quantity of sugar since you want that yeast to create an environment that favors its growth and disfavors any competing mold, yeast, bacteria and you want that yeast to modify the pH and use up the O2, stat.. But hey! Your call... Not mine.

 

[Merledm]

It's easy enough. Rack out the cider into a secondary vessel and then just put more fresh cider in on top of the lees.

Face palm. That never occurred to me.
You can reuse over and over and over, correct?

 

[MarkKF]

There's something about mutation over time and after so many generations it will no longer perform as original strain. But I don't think that will be a problem for home brewers. Just start with a new packet every fall.

 

[slym2none]

I always use the 5-6 gal. packet for 1 gal. batches or split it for two 1 gal. batches. Never had off flavors. The packets are like $1-2 for wine yeast and $3-5 for ale yeast. It's the cheapest part of making cider. If you wanna save money then use one packet for your first batch and repitch it in every other batch that season.

You make it sound like a bad thing. More than once, I have washed yeast from beer made with dry yeast.

 

[slym2none]

It's not so much about math - it's about storing unused yeast under conditions that ask for it to be contaminated and so create problems with must that may cost real money for the sake of saving cents... Your call ... of course... but you ain't getting me or anyone I know to save a $1.50 cent on a pack of yeast when we spend $8.00 a gallon of apple juice blended for hard cider and expressed by a local orchard ... but your arithmetic may be wrong if you need a minimum number of cells to effectively ferment any quantity of sugar since you want that yeast to create an environment that favors its growth and disfavors any competing mold, yeast, bacteria and you want that yeast to modify the pH and use up the O2, stat.. But hey! Your call... Not mine.

You need a minimum number of cells for the volume.

2.2g = 1/5 of 11 grams
1 gallon = 1/5 of 5 gallons

If 2.2 g of yeast won't do exactly what you are describing in 1 gallon of wort, then 11g won't do it to 5 gallons. Yet it does.

That's everyone's math, not "my call".

 

[ericbw]

The old Mr. Beer yeast was in 2g packs for 2 gallons. Prob a little low for the volume but it worked.

Also, yeast produces its characteristic aromas (esters, etc.) when reproducing. If you pitch a whole pack it won't need to. So at best you get bland.

Also, Coopers makes 7g packs. Maybe Munton's does, too?

 

[Merledm]

yeast produces its characteristic aromas (esters, etc.) when reproducing. If you pitch a whole pack it won't need to. So at best you get bland.

Interesting. yeast multiplies, so the total yeast at the end of primary could be 3-5 times more. If you reuse the yeast cake without reducing its size, would that be pitching more than it needs again?

 

[bernardsmith]

The old Mr. Beer yeast was in 2g packs for 2 gallons. Prob a little low for the volume but it worked.

Also, yeast produces its characteristic aromas (esters, etc.) when reproducing. If you pitch a whole pack it won't need to. So at best you get bland.

Also, Coopers makes 7g packs. Maybe Munton's does, too?

You all may be right and I may be wrong ... but then so is Lalvin - Their wine yeasts (71B, for example) clearly state that this package is designed for 1 - 5 imperial gallons...

 

[MarkKF]

You make it sound like a bad thing. More than once, I have washed yeast from beer made with dry yeast.

Don't know where you got that inference. If I make a 5 gal. straight apple cider I usually dump the lees in my 2 gal. bucket and make a small experimental cider.

 

[ericbw]

Interesting. yeast multiplies, so the total yeast at the end of primary could be 3-5 times more. If you reuse the yeast cake without reducing its size, would that be pitching more than it needs again?

Yes, they could be way more than needed. A batch is like a starter. You make a 1-2 quart starter for 5 gallons. A 5 gallon starter would be good for s giant batch.

 

[Merledm]

At day 11 I tested the batch with M02. It was at 1.005, very dry and a little fizzy. Im gonna add some carbonation and stevia to this one. I put a very small amount of Stevia in the sample and it brought some apple flavours back but not too sweet.
I took samples from the two batches with Nottingham. 1.020 and 1.025 with maple syrup. Still on the sweet side these two impressed my wife and I the most. Preference to the maple syrup batch.
I just took samples again tonight, day 13.
The first batch with S04 hasn't changed, still around 1.022. Very light tasting a little less sweet than before. Very still.
The batch of M02 is still the same dry fizzy didn't notice much difference.
The Nottingham batches are a little fizzy now at 1.015 and 1.020 still our favourites. I'm letting these batches go a little longer. I'd like to let them go to 1.010.
I've got some campden tabs, C02 equipment and bottles. I might experiment carbonating this weekend. At this stage in the game I'm not looking for a super clear cider. I'm going to be drinking most of this and I'm more concerned with taste than appearance. Scrumpy Style! I haven't noticed any yeast flavours in the samples.I'd drink every one just as it is, some preferably with carbonation. I'm really happy with the results thus far

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[MarkKF]

That headspace is o.k. for the beginning but after a week or two the cider should be up to the neck.

 

[Merledm]

That headspace is o.k. for the beginning but after a week or two the cider should be up to the neck.

The two on the left have been racked into the secondary. The right two are still in primary. I got the most foam in the first few days, it settled shortly after. Does it get foamy again in the secondary after a while?

 

[Merledm]

That headspace is o.k. for the beginning but after a week or two the cider should be up to the neck.

The two on the left have been racked into the secondary. The right two are still in primary. I got the most foam in the first few days, it settled shortly after. Does it get foamy again in the secondary after a while?

 

[MarkKF]

The only foam you'll get is the first week. I rack into secondary after fermentation slows but before its done to insure the neck fills with CO2 then age at least 6 months.

 

[CMcPherson]

It's not so much about math -...

ultracrepidarian
[uhl-truh-krep-i-dair-ee-uh n]

adjective
1.
Noting or pertaining to a person who criticizes, judges, or gives advice outside the area of his or her expertise.

 

[slym2none]

hmm

 

[CMcPherson]

Just some good natured ribbing Slym.

 

[Merledm]

Yesterday (Day 20 I think), I tested and racked the last two batches. Two Nottingham, one with maple syrup. They tested 1.005 and 1.010 w/syrup. Both fizzy, fairly clear. At 1.005 it tastes like a slightly fizzy apple wine. I'd like a bit more carbonation. I recently bought some natural apple flavour at the brew store(no fermentable sugars). After sampling each batch I added a drop at a time in the remaining sample to taste. I tried a Stevia blend as well, very small amounts at a time. It's amazing how little it takes, too much is gross(bad aftertaste).
Likewise with the Apple flavour, too much is like apple candy extreme.
From sampling all four batches, I've concluded I like the cider when it's between 1.005 and 1.010.The path forward is to let sit in the secondary for a week or two, drop Campden tablets, let sit for a day or so, sweeten to taste with flavour and stevia(if needed) then bottle/carbonate and drink. I'm looking forward to carbonation. Any suggestions on paying with CO2? I've been told to do it with the cider cold. Is how much carbonation you get based on the psi thats applied or how much you shake it? Id like to achieve a finer carbonation to some of them. Any tips or tricks out there?

Just bartered for a 12-15lb bucket of honey, going to use it in the next batches. I see mead in the future as well.

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[Maylar]

I recently bought some natural apple flavour at the brew store(no fermentable sugars). After sampling each batch I added a drop at a time in the remaining sample to taste. I tried a Stevia blend as well, very small amounts at a time. It's amazing how little it takes, too much is gross(bad aftertaste).
Likewise with the Apple flavour, too much is like apple candy extreme.

That's my experience as well. I use flavor concentrate from Nature's Flavors and just 1/4 TSP per gallon is all that's needed. Any more and you get Jolly Rancher fake apple taste.
I haven't tried Stevia yet tho I just bought some ($$). I hate sweetener aftertaste, so I dunno if I'll risk it. I've used Xylitol with success though, 3 TBSP per gallon works for me.

From sampling all four batches, I've concluded I like the cider when it's between 1.005 and 1.010.The path forward is to let sit in the secondary for a week or two, drop Campden tablets, let sit for a day or so, sweeten to taste with flavour and stevia(if needed) then bottle/carbonate and drink.

Campden for what purpose? It won't stop fermentation.

I'm looking forward to carbonation. Any suggestions on paying with CO2? I've been told to do it with the cider cold. Is how much carbonation you get based on the psi that's applied or how much you shake it? Id like to achieve a finer carbonation to some of them. Any tips or tricks out there?

If you're talking about using Carbonater caps, yes it's a time, temperature and pressure thing. Lower pressure at cold temp. Time can be reduced by shaking.

 

[Merledm]

Campden for what purpose? It won't stop fermentation.

I thought Campden would bring the fermentation to a halt. I plan to consume it within two weeks of bottling. Should I worry about bottle bombs even if I'm using stevia as my sweetener? I was hoping the Campden and refrigeration would slow/stop any fermentation enough that I could sweeten with stevia/xylitol, carbonate and bottle, drinking it within two weeks.

I've noticed that the two batches with Nottingham were much clearer after racking than the M02 and S04
Temperatures have fluctuated a bit. Low side 60, high side 68..

 

[ericbw]

I thought Campden would bring the fermentation to a halt. I plan to consume it within two weeks of bottling. Should I worry about bottle bombs even if I'm using stevia as my sweetener? I was hoping the Campden and refrigeration would slow/stop any fermentation enough that I could sweeten with stevia/xylitol, carbonate and bottle, drinking it within two weeks.

I've noticed that the two batches with Nottingham were much clearer after racking than the M02 and S04
Temperatures have fluctuated a bit. Low side 60, high side 68..

First, campden will stop yeast or bacteria from reproducing. But it won't stop it on an active ferment.

Stevia and xylitol are not fermentable, so you won't get carbonation from it.

You need sugar and yeast to bottle carbonate. You're talking about trying to stop the yeast and adding non carbonating sweetener. If it all works, you'll get flat sweet cider.

 

[ericbw]

If you're carbonating in a keg (since you mentioned psi), i have success with putting it at 30 then putting it in the fridge. After 24 hours, reduce to 12 or so. In 2 weeks it is ready.